Discussion
Digga said:
Deadly. Two greatest contemporary musical nations on the globe; USA and UK. Granted, other nations get an occasional look in, but contrast our commercial success with the Eurovision and there's absolutely no correlation. 
On the first, non-quoted part, I doubt that it's got anything to do with origin. I have fairly small but eclectic social circle and some people who voted leave are not English/British. So I don't think that there is anything there. As for the music. I agree that UK/USA do provide disproportionate amount of really really good music (my lovefest with the UK began with Tubular Bells and BBC programming). Saying that have you seen UK entrants to Eurovision? Not exactly Adele, are they?
ETA; When it comes to music; UK > All (including USA).
Edited by jjlynn27 on Friday 29th September 12:08
Zod said:
Not-The-Messiah said:
Whats wrong with a certain level of nationalism, celebrating and protecting ones culture?
What's your culture? Either he fails to address that blunderbuss of a question, or therwise answers with something like "Yorkshire puddings" which you then, painstakingly demolish.
I think it fair and right to say [i]most[/i[ European countries have cultures which are externally recognisable and internally, very important - in varying degrees - to many of those living there.
Zod said:
The point is very simple: he has no idea what he's talking about, but just feels threatened.
What's actually wrong with that feeling? It's not as if the present rhetoric from the EU is doing anything to assuage these sorts of fears now, is it?Just because something is, at a certain point in time, a feeling, does not make it wholly illogical, risible or wrong.
Jinx said:
jjlynn27 said:
Are you saying that you, Jinx of PH, understands sovereignty better than person in charge of delivering Brexit?
I love PH
. Comedy Central has a lot to learn.
Yes. Mrs May was a remainer remember. I love PH
. Comedy Central has a lot to learn. 
Digga said:
What's your point?
Either he fails to address that blunderbuss of a question, or otherwise answers with something like "Yorkshire puddings" which you then, painstakingly demolish.
I think it fair and right to say [i]most[/i[ European countries have cultures which are externally recognisable and internally, very important - in varying degrees - to many of those living there.
I think "most cultures" are a mishmash that vary from town to town, County to County, and Country to Country. It doesn't just depend on your ethnicity, it also depends on your education, your job, the people you mix with, and your upbringing.Either he fails to address that blunderbuss of a question, or otherwise answers with something like "Yorkshire puddings" which you then, painstakingly demolish.
I think it fair and right to say [i]most[/i[ European countries have cultures which are externally recognisable and internally, very important - in varying degrees - to many of those living there.
The culture of somebody living in a terraced house in Salford will differ significantly from somebody who lives in a cottage in Sherborne or a house in Notting Hill.
jjlynn27 said:
Digga said:
Deadly. Two greatest contemporary musical nations on the globe; USA and UK. Granted, other nations get an occasional look in, but contrast our commercial success with the Eurovision and there's absolutely no correlation.
On the first, non-quoted part, I doubt that it's got anything to do with origin. I have fairly small but eclectic social circle and some people who voted leave are not English/British. So I don't think that there is anything there. As for the music. I agree that UK/USA do provide disproportionate amount of really really good music (my lovefest with the UK began with Tubular Bells and BBC programming). Saying that have you seen UK entrants to Eurovision? Not exactly Adele, are they?
ETA; When it comes to music; UK > All (including USA).
Edited by jjlynn27 on Friday 29th September 12:08
Countdown said:
Digga said:
What's your point?
Either he fails to address that blunderbuss of a question, or otherwise answers with something like "Yorkshire puddings" which you then, painstakingly demolish.
I think it fair and right to say [i]most[/i[ European countries have cultures which are externally recognisable and internally, very important - in varying degrees - to many of those living there.
I think "most cultures" are a mishmash that vary from town to town, County to County, and Country to Country. It doesn't just depend on your ethnicity, it also depends on your education, your job, the people you mix with, and your upbringing.Either he fails to address that blunderbuss of a question, or otherwise answers with something like "Yorkshire puddings" which you then, painstakingly demolish.
I think it fair and right to say [i]most[/i[ European countries have cultures which are externally recognisable and internally, very important - in varying degrees - to many of those living there.
The culture of somebody living in a terraced house in Salford will differ significantly from somebody who lives in a cottage in Sherborne or a house in Notting Hill.
However, there are numerous pools of undeniable shared values, experiences and understandings; any thing from the way people queue, for example, to the recognition of the BBC news intro music. There are simply thousands of cultural identifiers and yes, ethnicity has very, very little to do with it, but our experience and expectation does.
Zod said:
The point is very simple: he has no idea what he's talking about, but just feels threatened.
Why do you think he feels "threatened"?All he asked was what's wrong with a certain amount of nationalism. What is wrong with that?
One of the reasons I worked abroad was to understand and appreciate other cultures. Not so that I would leave my Yorkshireness behind.
Some of it no doubt stuck and they'll obviously be better for it
But the countries I visited were very proud of their nations and rightly so. Why do you think we must be feeling "threatened" if we feel the same...? I accept there's a balance to be struck - it's part of Britishness after all - but we aren't half apologetic about ourselves sometimes.
Murph7355 said:
Zod said:
The point is very simple: he has no idea what he's talking about, but just feels threatened.
Why do you think he feels "threatened"?All he asked was what's wrong with a certain amount of nationalism. What is wrong with that?
One of the reasons I worked abroad was to understand and appreciate other cultures. Not so that I would leave my Yorkshireness behind.
Some of it no doubt stuck and they'll obviously be better for it
But the countries I visited were very proud of their nations and rightly so. Why do you think we must be feeling "threatened" if we feel the same...? I accept there's a balance to be struck - it's part of Britishness after all - but we aren't half apologetic about ourselves sometimes.
I certainly don't apologise for my own culture, being happy to be both a Yorkshireman and an Englishman, but I am also - pace Theresa May - a citizen of the world. I've lived in other countries, speak some of their languages, love travel, but always feel a little frustrated (with myself) where I don't speak any of the language. One of the great things about experiencing other cultures is how you learn better to appreciate your own culture at the same time as gaining experience of other cultures.
Edited by Zod on Friday 29th September 15:28
Zod said:
One of the great things about experiencing other cultures is how you learn better to appreciate your own culture at the same time as gaining experience of other cultures.
Agreed, and there is a great gulf between learning about and appreciating other cultures and being prepared to lose one's own culture - whether or not that threat is perceived or actually in progress. Understanding and even valuing other cultures, whilst enjoying and wishing to protects one's own are not mutually exclusive.I'd also go as far as to say any objective observation of British culture would also recognise its ability to assimilate and accommodate immigrants and their cultures, up to a point. We beat ourselves up about being stuffy and closed but are - as the huge numbers of immigrants would attest - still, on balance, a very good place for immigrants to be. That in and of itself is part of our history and part of our culture.
Digga said:
greed, and there is a great gulf between learning about and appreciating other cultures and being prepared to lose one's own culture - whether or not that threat is perceived or actually in progress. Understanding and even valuing other cultures, whilst enjoying and wishing to protects one's own are not mutually exclusive.
I'd also go as far as to say any objective observation of British culture would also recognise its ability to assimilate and accommodate immigrants and their cultures, up to a point. We beat ourselves up about being stuffy and closed but are - as the huge numbers of immigrants would attest - still, on balance, a very good place for immigrants to be. That in and of itself is part of our history and part of our culture.
+ 1I'd also go as far as to say any objective observation of British culture would also recognise its ability to assimilate and accommodate immigrants and their cultures, up to a point. We beat ourselves up about being stuffy and closed but are - as the huge numbers of immigrants would attest - still, on balance, a very good place for immigrants to be. That in and of itself is part of our history and part of our culture.
Zod said:
I think you should ask him why he feels so threatened, not me.
I certainly don't apologise for my own culture, being happy to be both a Yorkshireman and an Englishman, but I am also - pace Theresa May - a citizen of the world. I've lived in other countries, speak some of their languages, love travel, but always feel a little frustrated (with myself) where I don't speak any of the language. One of the great things about experiencing other cultures is how you learn better to appreciate your own culture at the same time as gaining experience of other cultures.
He didn't mention it. Quite the opposite from a later post...I certainly don't apologise for my own culture, being happy to be both a Yorkshireman and an Englishman, but I am also - pace Theresa May - a citizen of the world. I've lived in other countries, speak some of their languages, love travel, but always feel a little frustrated (with myself) where I don't speak any of the language. One of the great things about experiencing other cultures is how you learn better to appreciate your own culture at the same time as gaining experience of other cultures.
You drew that conclusion.
Anyway, glad to see another Yorkshireman seeing the world and taking it all in
Zod said:
Murph7355 said:
Zod said:
The point is very simple: he has no idea what he's talking about, but just feels threatened.
Why do you think he feels "threatened"?All he asked was what's wrong with a certain amount of nationalism. What is wrong with that?
One of the reasons I worked abroad was to understand and appreciate other cultures. Not so that I would leave my Yorkshireness behind.
Some of it no doubt stuck and they'll obviously be better for it
But the countries I visited were very proud of their nations and rightly so. Why do you think we must be feeling "threatened" if we feel the same...? I accept there's a balance to be struck - it's part of Britishness after all - but we aren't half apologetic about ourselves sometimes.
I certainly don't apologise for my own culture, being happy to be both a Yorkshireman and an Englishman, but I am also - pace Theresa May - a citizen of the world. I've lived in other countries, speak some of their languages, love travel, but always feel a little frustrated (with myself) where I don't speak any of the language. One of the great things about experiencing other cultures is how you learn better to appreciate your own culture at the same time as gaining experience of other cultures.
Edited by Zod on Friday 29th September 15:28
My main change is now that I see that Britain (and Europe) have distinct individual and collective cultures that need to be protected and cherished, especially in the face of people who actively resent them. Obviously a large part of British culture is the fact that we are/were a great trading nation with a past empire that gives us a unique connection with half of the world, so our identity and culture implicitly includes half of the places in which we receive a lot of migrants from, but that inclusion cannot come at the price of our background, much in the way that McDonalds and Levi's should not come at the price of Indian/African culture, but if it productively enriches and adds to the culture in an appropriate way then I'm all for it.
Obviously there is a line somewhere and I think this recent migrant crisis has probably overstepped it, and it seems like the people more Germany think similar!
Murph7355 said:
He didn't mention it. Quite the opposite from a later post...
You drew that conclusion.
Anyway, glad to see another Yorkshireman seeing the world and taking it all in
He might have denied it, but his posting record suggests that denial is to himself as much as to the rest of us.You drew that conclusion.
Anyway, glad to see another Yorkshireman seeing the world and taking it all in
We're so deep, we Yorkshiremen.
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