Uber are getting shirty
Discussion
drainbrain said:
Actually HOW does robocar use a fuel card? Or fill the tank come to that? Is it like a transformer that morphs into a roboman when it needs to?
Its actually easy. The car drives to a facility, an operative fills the tank. The bill goes on Uber's account. You can even deal with fraud easily. Uber will know exactly where every car it owns is. If someone tries to fuel their car with a cloned number plate they won't have the right RFID chip...You could even automate the whole pump thing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMM0lRfX6YI
There will be ways and means if it's worthwhile...
bobbylondonuk said:
So the courts are forcing Uber to give up their advantage of being an online traffic routing business for felxible drivers, and turning them into a traditional Minicab co.?
IF that is the case, all minicab co. need to play by the same rules too!
They are not though, the Uber drivers have to adhere to a set of rules and procedures that Uber lays down. It isn't just a system of ordering a mini cab via an app.IF that is the case, all minicab co. need to play by the same rules too!
“The notion that Uber in London is a mosaic of 30,000 small businesses linked by a common ‘platform’ is to our minds faintly ridiculous,” the judges said. “Drivers do not and cannot negotiate with passengers … They are offered and accept trips strictly on Uber’s terms.”
sugerbear said:
They are not though, the Uber drivers have to adhere to a set of rules and procedures that Uber lays down. It isn't just a system of ordering a mini cab via an app.
“The notion that Uber in London is a mosaic of 30,000 small businesses linked by a common ‘platform’ is to our minds faintly ridiculous,” the judges said. “Drivers do not and cannot negotiate with passengers … They are offered and accept trips strictly on Uber’s terms.”
But black cab drivers are regarded as individual small businesses.“The notion that Uber in London is a mosaic of 30,000 small businesses linked by a common ‘platform’ is to our minds faintly ridiculous,” the judges said. “Drivers do not and cannot negotiate with passengers … They are offered and accept trips strictly on Uber’s terms.”
The reason Uber lost the case is simple.
All Uber drivers get paid via Uber. One source of income means that your not self employed.
In a minicab company (now all licenced) the drivers will pay a rent and receive money for account work done. The rest of there income will be cash jobs from many people.
All Uber has to do is to accept cash bookings. There system could then deduct the cash from there credit card bookings.
THE BIG issue is that the Uber app and computer system does not comply with the conditions to hold a Private Hire Operators Licence.
Google Toronto v Uber case 2015 Sections 80 onwards explains.
To hold a Private hire car operators Licence in the UK the operator has to accept the booking and then despatch the booking.
All Uber drivers get paid via Uber. One source of income means that your not self employed.
In a minicab company (now all licenced) the drivers will pay a rent and receive money for account work done. The rest of there income will be cash jobs from many people.
All Uber has to do is to accept cash bookings. There system could then deduct the cash from there credit card bookings.
THE BIG issue is that the Uber app and computer system does not comply with the conditions to hold a Private Hire Operators Licence.
Google Toronto v Uber case 2015 Sections 80 onwards explains.
To hold a Private hire car operators Licence in the UK the operator has to accept the booking and then despatch the booking.
Dr Jekyll said:
markcoznottz said:
Dr Jekyll said:
But black cab drivers are regarded as individual small businesses.
Because they are. Uber is disguised employment no doubt about it. Totally different. Uber are just a cab company hiding behind a fancy app.
sugerbear said:
Dr Jekyll said:
markcoznottz said:
Dr Jekyll said:
But black cab drivers are regarded as individual small businesses.
Because they are. Uber is disguised employment no doubt about it. Totally different. Uber are just a cab company hiding behind a fancy app.
It strikes me that the reason that the T & G W U has got involved is because their black cab members are losing work to Uber. Any other reason given is nonsensical and hypocritical.
sugerbear said:
But those rules are about regulation of the vehicle and how they operate. TFL only provide guidance, they don't set the fares, they dont acquire the customers, they dont process the payments, they dont take commission from the drivers for rides and (as far as I am aware) dont provide any software/hardware for them to operate. (Have you ever tried to pay an Uber driver directly with cash?)
Totally different. Uber are just a cab company hiding behind a fancy app.
TFL Do set maximum fares. Totally different. Uber are just a cab company hiding behind a fancy app.
I used to regularly book B&B accommodation through a website. The website would acquire the customer, IE me, invite feedback, and process the payments. Does that mean the website was remotely close to 'employing' the B&B operator?
Don said:
Its actually easy. The car drives to a facility, an operative fills the tank. The bill goes on Uber's account. You can even deal with fraud easily. Uber will know exactly where every car it owns is. If someone tries to fuel their car with a cloned number plate they won't have the right RFID chip...
You could even automate the whole pump thing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMM0lRfX6YI
There will be ways and means if it's worthwhile...
That's stunning. Probably a realistic vision of the not too distant future too.You could even automate the whole pump thing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMM0lRfX6YI
There will be ways and means if it's worthwhile...
Dr Jekyll said:
sugerbear said:
But those rules are about regulation of the vehicle and how they operate. TFL only provide guidance, they don't set the fares, they dont acquire the customers, they dont process the payments, they dont take commission from the drivers for rides and (as far as I am aware) dont provide any software/hardware for them to operate. (Have you ever tried to pay an Uber driver directly with cash?)
Totally different. Uber are just a cab company hiding behind a fancy app.
TFL Do set maximum fares. Totally different. Uber are just a cab company hiding behind a fancy app.
I used to regularly book B&B accommodation through a website. The website would acquire the customer, IE me, invite feedback, and process the payments. Does that mean the website was remotely close to 'employing' the B&B operator?
red_slr said:
Personally I think the big issue is that Uber does not accept cash. The drivers are now getting shirty because they have to declare everything, which results in them being taxed like an employee so they might as well be employees.
IYSWIM.
Right now they don't have to declare anything…….because uber does that for them.IYSWIM.
drainbrain said:
red_slr said:
Personally I think the big issue is that Uber does not accept cash. The drivers are now getting shirty because they have to declare everything, which results in them being taxed like an employee so they might as well be employees.
IYSWIM.
Right now they don't have to declare anything…….because uber does that for them.IYSWIM.
Eric Mc said:
So, what aspect of the Uber drivers is ACTUALLY indicative that they are "trading in their own right"?
Quite a few. For instance many (most) drive for other firms too. The owner/drivers also have considerable expenses to meet which are pretty inarguably the legitimate expenses of running their micro-businesses.But the BIG deal (and the big difference with 'normal' private hire) is that they do Uber's jobs and Uber pays them for doing them. Normal private hire provides the opportunity of jobs, but that's not done to swell the number of jobs, it's done to swell the number of drivers, because whereas uber makes its money from the fares, normal ph makes its money from the drivers 'radio' fees. So the firm boosts the jobs to boost the number of drivers which boosts the number of radio fees. So….a 'normal' minicab firm would be better described as a 'radio hire firm'. Even the accounts are driver money paid to the firm which the firm deducts from the driver's radio fee. Uber really IS a minicab firm which provides a radio rather than hire it and takes the money from punters for providing a service. That's what the DRIVERS (not the firm) do in 'normal' private hire.
But the way the money works to my mind definitely seems more like employment.
Edited by drainbrain on Monday 31st October 23:01
drainbrain said:
But the way the money works to my mind definitely seems more like employment.
Uber could quite easily change it so they are a Payment Gateway provider and the transaction is between the driver and the customer. The card companies wouldn't have allowed this when they started out (too much hassle and fraud risk) but now they'd be fine with it.maffski said:
Uber could quite easily change it so they are a Payment Gateway provider and the transaction is between the driver and the customer. The card companies wouldn't have allowed this when they started out (too much hassle and fraud risk) but now they'd be fine with it.
They'd have to do it in a way that siphoned off their cut because what they certainly won't be doing under any circumstances is depending on drivers to bring it in. Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff