Uber are getting shirty
Discussion
Uber is about Data.
But aside from that - the classic PH polarisation.
1. It suits me and it's cheap. Beyond that I have no interest. Sod the drivers, they can always work somewhere else. Sod the consequences of normalising the gig-economy and working WAY under minimum wage. f
k that - I just want to get home cheaply.
2. Using Uber has consequences for the wider economy at large. These are bad. It's convenient for me but I don't use it/regret using it because of a moral stance on the exploitation of workers and the consequences of this for other workers, maybe myself, somewhere down the line.
That's it.
But aside from that - the classic PH polarisation.
1. It suits me and it's cheap. Beyond that I have no interest. Sod the drivers, they can always work somewhere else. Sod the consequences of normalising the gig-economy and working WAY under minimum wage. f
k that - I just want to get home cheaply. 2. Using Uber has consequences for the wider economy at large. These are bad. It's convenient for me but I don't use it/regret using it because of a moral stance on the exploitation of workers and the consequences of this for other workers, maybe myself, somewhere down the line.
That's it.
hairyben said:
Although thats probably one thing you cant blame the cabbies personally for - the wheelchair-accessible vehicles they dont have much choice over (none whatsoever untill quite recently)
I wonder if its quite a waste of resources that every cab ride has to be this ponderous wheelchair friendly monstrosity? What do other cities do? That said Ive hired a london style cab in cities other than london where theyre chosen to operate alongside conventional cars so you cant blame the vehicle for the drivers attitudes or the ridiculous costs.
My wife is a wheelchair user. We live in Central London. We believe it is a mark of our civilisation that any public hailable cab will carry my wife as of right.I wonder if its quite a waste of resources that every cab ride has to be this ponderous wheelchair friendly monstrosity? What do other cities do? That said Ive hired a london style cab in cities other than london where theyre chosen to operate alongside conventional cars so you cant blame the vehicle for the drivers attitudes or the ridiculous costs.
At the expense of seeming a little rude, frankly you're welcome to use Uber if that's your attitude towards providing accessible transport for everyone - are you really so "I'm alright, Jack" as your comment suggests? I truly suggest that you try living in a wheelchair for a while. Or being without some of your sight (notice the contrasting colours in the proper cabs, the braille instructions, etc.). Or operating with crutches (where do those go in your Uber?).
As regards the "monstrosity" then that's your opinion, but one I don't share. I think cabs are terrific, because they're designed to do a job (run - not without maintenance - for hundreds of thousands of miles with constant stop/start, etc.). The visibility is great (not as good as the old FX4s, but ok); the ride is just fine for the purpose; the accessibility is great (could be better, but hey), etc. The Mercs are far worse an experience from my PoV. There is space around you for bags, and so on. The turning circle is a major issue (and note how many of the Merc drivers pull the fuse on the rear steer to save wear and tear, meaning multi-point turns, etc.).
Taxis are not meant to be limousines, and nor should they be in my view. I don't need velour upholstery (with all of the cleanliness issues that brings with it) and Magic Tree to cover the smell of the upholstery, to make me feel complete. I need a personal bus.
My personal opinion is this: Uber is a clear and present danger to the black cab trade, and should be curtailed. Uber want the profits without the hassle of being "proper cabs" and I fail to see why they should be allowed to thrive by doing so.
W124 said:
Uber is about Data.
But aside from that - the classic PH polarisation.
1. It suits me and it's cheap. Beyond that I have no interest. Sod the drivers, they can always work somewhere else. Sod the consequences of normalising the gig-economy and working WAY under minimum wage. fk that - I just want to get home cheaply.
2. Using Uber has consequences for the wider economy at large. These are bad. It's convenient for me but I don't use it/regret using it because of a moral stance on the exploitation of workers and the consequences of this for other workers, maybe myself, somewhere down the line.
That's it.
Uber would never have gained so much traction here, if black cabs stopped for everyone, didn't constantly refuse work, and their card machines always worked.But aside from that - the classic PH polarisation.
1. It suits me and it's cheap. Beyond that I have no interest. Sod the drivers, they can always work somewhere else. Sod the consequences of normalising the gig-economy and working WAY under minimum wage. f
k that - I just want to get home cheaply. 2. Using Uber has consequences for the wider economy at large. These are bad. It's convenient for me but I don't use it/regret using it because of a moral stance on the exploitation of workers and the consequences of this for other workers, maybe myself, somewhere down the line.
That's it.
mandos_01 said:
markcoznottz said:
Too many refusals to pay, usually the cash machine scam then run off. Apparently females are worse for not paying
Oh ok, I'll just sleep in a bin then because some other guy didn't pay for a cab oncemarkcoznottz said:
mandos_01 said:
markcoznottz said:
Too many refusals to pay, usually the cash machine scam then run off. Apparently females are worse for not paying
Oh ok, I'll just sleep in a bin then because some other guy didn't pay for a cab oncethe those machines ALWAYS work on the busses
Sadiq Khan writes in the Guardian about this
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/sep...
Osbourne's Evening Standard editorial to follow later.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/sep...
Osbourne's Evening Standard editorial to follow later.
mandos_01 said:
Speaking from experience, black cabs rarely stop for groups of 3/4 BAME young men (admittedly, in varying states of inebriation) in the early hours of the morning
The ones that did stop would outright refuse to go beyond zone 2
First of all, black cab drivers can legally refuse anyone if they deem them to be inebriated, and they don't HAVE to respond to a street hail, they can just keep going, BUT if they stop, they must, unless there are extenuating circumstances, take that hiring.The ones that did stop would outright refuse to go beyond zone 2
Second of all, if you picked up a guy(s), wearing a fez, and he ran off without paying, then a few weeks later you picked another fez wearer and he lit up a doobie, and refused to put it out, then you got another fez wearer who insisted that the £10 fare should have been £5, and that's all you got, you might sail majestically past the next person wearing a fez who hailed you.
As for zone 2, I took plenty of fares to Wandsworth, Acton, Canning Town and Chiswick, just get in, state your (legal) destination, if the driver says no, say "take me to the nearest police station", sure, you shouldn't have to have that hassle, but insist.
That's my frustration as well. Uber isn't perfect, but the black cabs need to modernise. Even in that land of Socialism, French cab drivers must take cards by law (IIRC).
It has been law in London since October 2016, that all black cabs must take cards, take the taxi's white plate number, and the driver's badge number, and report them for allegedly having a defective machine.
Frank7 said:
Second of all, if you picked up a guy(s), wearing a fez, and he ran off without paying, then a few weeks later you picked another fez wearer and he lit up a doobie, and refused to put it out, then you got another fez wearer who insisted that the £10 fare should have been £5, and that's all you got, you might sail majestically past the next person wearing a fez who hailed you..
My dad was a self employed cabbie in Salford in the 1950's, and he once told me he had Tommy Cooper in his cab.He was absolutely HUGE with giant feet.
As you were.................
Frank7 said:
But they DON'T always work, I've been on many that are covered over, with OUT OF SERVICE scrawled on them, and I don't think that you just JOIN Oyster.
I can't remember the last time I went to a shop where the card machine didn't work. We all know what goes on.. even the tiniest of market stalls can take card payments nowadays."Why should I pay 5% to advance credit to passengers" is the usual sentiment. Time for them to join the real world.
essayer said:
Frank7 said:
But they DON'T always work, I've been on many that are covered over, with OUT OF SERVICE scrawled on them, and I don't think that you just JOIN Oyster.
I can't remember the last time I went to a shop where the card machine didn't work. We all know what goes on.. even the tiniest of market stalls can take card payments nowadays."Why should I pay 5% to advance credit to passengers" is the usual sentiment. Time for them to join the real world.
Cash deposit at the bank costs 0.8% or so. Obviously (and I do not know) there might be some tax advantages to cash?
Perhaps cabbies aren't able to access cheap card machines? Maybe there's an opening in the market for this?
FWIW I think it is time that accepting cards was made mandatory in all retail businesses.
skwdenyer said:
My wife is a wheelchair user. We live in Central London. We believe it is a mark of our civilisation that any public hailable cab will carry my wife as of right.
At the expense of seeming a little rude, frankly you're welcome to use Uber if that's your attitude towards providing accessible transport for everyone - are you really so "I'm alright, Jack" as your comment suggests? I truly suggest that you try living in a wheelchair for a while. Or being without some of your sight (notice the contrasting colours in the proper cabs, the braille instructions, etc.). Or operating with crutches (where do those go in your Uber?).
As regards the "monstrosity" then that's your opinion, but one I don't share. I think cabs are terrific, because they're designed to do a job (run - not without maintenance - for hundreds of thousands of miles with constant stop/start, etc.). The visibility is great (not as good as the old FX4s, but ok); the ride is just fine for the purpose; the accessibility is great (could be better, but hey), etc. The Mercs are far worse an experience from my PoV. There is space around you for bags, and so on. The turning circle is a major issue (and note how many of the Merc drivers pull the fuse on the rear steer to save wear and tear, meaning multi-point turns, etc.).
Taxis are not meant to be limousines, and nor should they be in my view. I don't need velour upholstery (with all of the cleanliness issues that brings with it) and Magic Tree to cover the smell of the upholstery, to make me feel complete. I need a personal bus.
My personal opinion is this: Uber is a clear and present danger to the black cab trade, and should be curtailed. Uber want the profits without the hassle of being "proper cabs" and I fail to see why they should be allowed to thrive by doing so.
Calm your horses. I did not state there should not be provision for wheelchair users - only pondered the efficiency of using one not required 99+% of the time. Much as that saturation might be usefull to yourself, if inefficiency in the face of technological progress risks rendering black cabs obsolete then its a question that does need to be asked. Perhaps with the savings of greater efficiency something of even more use to wheelchair users might result. I don't know... but my asking questions is probably more helpful than attempting to simply reject an effect of technological progress. Otherwise we'd still be riding horses, which arent that wheelchair accessible either last time I checked.At the expense of seeming a little rude, frankly you're welcome to use Uber if that's your attitude towards providing accessible transport for everyone - are you really so "I'm alright, Jack" as your comment suggests? I truly suggest that you try living in a wheelchair for a while. Or being without some of your sight (notice the contrasting colours in the proper cabs, the braille instructions, etc.). Or operating with crutches (where do those go in your Uber?).
As regards the "monstrosity" then that's your opinion, but one I don't share. I think cabs are terrific, because they're designed to do a job (run - not without maintenance - for hundreds of thousands of miles with constant stop/start, etc.). The visibility is great (not as good as the old FX4s, but ok); the ride is just fine for the purpose; the accessibility is great (could be better, but hey), etc. The Mercs are far worse an experience from my PoV. There is space around you for bags, and so on. The turning circle is a major issue (and note how many of the Merc drivers pull the fuse on the rear steer to save wear and tear, meaning multi-point turns, etc.).
Taxis are not meant to be limousines, and nor should they be in my view. I don't need velour upholstery (with all of the cleanliness issues that brings with it) and Magic Tree to cover the smell of the upholstery, to make me feel complete. I need a personal bus.
My personal opinion is this: Uber is a clear and present danger to the black cab trade, and should be curtailed. Uber want the profits without the hassle of being "proper cabs" and I fail to see why they should be allowed to thrive by doing so.
From the guardian article there is a comment from an Uber driver:
Uber driver said:
I am an Uber driver. It is unfair to say Uber doesn't not complying with the Criminal records check or medical ones! First of all TFL is the authority who asked for this and only after you provide them whith those, in the form of which they request, you go to Uber and apply to be a driver. Second, almost all the minicab companies apply same model of zero hours jobs. I had worked for some and had to say that TFL did not said a thing about it!
What will happen with me among with other ten of thousands of drivers who bought new cars and they are still paying for them? How about my family for which I was the main bread winner?
In any 40000 people you may find some bad persons, doesn't matter if they are Uber drivers, Black cab drivers, mechanics, chefs or whatever. It seems that only Uber drivers are the only ones visible!
Thank you Sadiq Khan and TFL for depriving me for my life and sending me and my family in misery!
If drivers have to submit the various paperwork to TFL before applying to Uber, then how can TFL say that Uber not being allowed to continue is due to fears about the safety of the passengers?What will happen with me among with other ten of thousands of drivers who bought new cars and they are still paying for them? How about my family for which I was the main bread winner?
In any 40000 people you may find some bad persons, doesn't matter if they are Uber drivers, Black cab drivers, mechanics, chefs or whatever. It seems that only Uber drivers are the only ones visible!
Thank you Sadiq Khan and TFL for depriving me for my life and sending me and my family in misery!
Edited by KTF on Friday 22 September 14:55
skwdenyer said:
5%? Which decade are you living in? We pay between 0.8% and 1.2% on card transactions (from memory), with no minimum fee. Even iZettle are only 1.75%.
Cash deposit at the bank costs 0.8% or so. Obviously (and I do not know) there might be some tax advantages to cash?
Perhaps cabbies aren't able to access cheap card machines? Maybe there's an opening in the market for this?
FWIW I think it is time that accepting cards was made mandatory in all retail businesses.
Or something like WeChat pay or alipay, all you need is a qr code on the dash.Cash deposit at the bank costs 0.8% or so. Obviously (and I do not know) there might be some tax advantages to cash?
Perhaps cabbies aren't able to access cheap card machines? Maybe there's an opening in the market for this?
FWIW I think it is time that accepting cards was made mandatory in all retail businesses.
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