Uber are getting shirty
Discussion
AW111 said:
Here in the primitive ex-colonies, I've been paying cabbies with cards for years.
Many businesses have cabcharge accounts, vouchers, etc.
I'd imagine, even in one of the ex-colonies, there's far more people who don't have a cabcharge account, vouchers etc. than those who do.Many businesses have cabcharge accounts, vouchers, etc.
popeyewhite said:
Are you seriously inferring everyone who is paid in cash is on the fiddle?
Where I am - London - yes, pretty much.Some examples:
- every tradesperson I've hired in the last 11 years bar only 2 (out of about 100) has offered to charge less in return for cash, and some have actively got upset and bolshy when I've expressed the desire to pay by some other means
- shops around here ring the items into the till, then take your cash, then press "clear" and then "no sale" to open the cash drawer - if you ask for a receipt, they suddenly have to ring everything through again, and the cheeky ones print out a pre-cash "receipt" (i.e. just a summary of what has been rung-up so far) and then (you guessed it) clear the till. By shops I mean most of the ones in my area that aren't chains of one sort or another - the number is startling
- most of the local "corner shops" sell "under the counter" cigarettes (for cash, of course) at a punchy discount
- black cabs and card machines (as already mentioned) - Hailo was great because it allowed you get a receipt from their system, but more than once I've been asked if I mind them cancelling the Hailo "hail" and then starting a fresh hire for me...
The list goes on, and is an everyday part of life here I'm afraid.
skwdenyer said:
Where I am - London - yes, pretty much.
Fair enough. Must be the norm down there. But others shouldn't judge the rest of the country by London's standards. I mean I know it's hard enough to imagine life exists beyond the M-whatever, but assuming everyone above the M-whatever is as dishonest as you cockney shysters is a bit cheeky.
popeyewhite said:
AW111 said:
Here in the primitive ex-colonies, I've been paying cabbies with cards for years.
Many businesses have cabcharge accounts, vouchers, etc.
I'd imagine, even in one of the ex-colonies, there's far more people who don't have a cabcharge account, vouchers etc. than those who do.Many businesses have cabcharge accounts, vouchers, etc.
The cabcharge stuff is for business - you don't pay anything, it gets billed directly to work.
popeyewhite said:
skwdenyer said:
Where I am - London - yes, pretty much.
Fair enough. Must be the norm down there. But others shouldn't judge the rest of the country by London's standards. I mean I know it's hard enough to imagine life exists beyond the M-whatever, but assuming everyone above the M-whatever is as dishonest as you cockney shysters is a bit cheeky.I'd be up for eliminating cash completely.
skwdenyer said:
Where I am - London - yes, pretty much.
Some examples:
- every tradesperson I've hired in the last 11 years bar only 2 (out of about 100) has offered to charge less in return for cash, and some have actively got upset and bolshy when I've expressed the desire to pay by some other means
- shops around here ring the items into the till, then take your cash, then press "clear" and then "no sale" to open the cash drawer - if you ask for a receipt, they suddenly have to ring everything through again, and the cheeky ones print out a pre-cash "receipt" (i.e. just a summary of what has been rung-up so far) and then (you guessed it) clear the till. By shops I mean most of the ones in my area that aren't chains of one sort or another - the number is startling
- most of the local "corner shops" sell "under the counter" cigarettes (for cash, of course) at a punchy discount
- black cabs and card machines (as already mentioned) - Hailo was great because it allowed you get a receipt from their system, but more than once I've been asked if I mind them cancelling the Hailo "hail" and then starting a fresh hire for me...
The list goes on, and is an everyday part of life here I'm afraid.
If you caught more buses instead of cabs, not hired 100 tradesman, shopped at larger chains and supermarkets instead of corner shops and so on....Some examples:
- every tradesperson I've hired in the last 11 years bar only 2 (out of about 100) has offered to charge less in return for cash, and some have actively got upset and bolshy when I've expressed the desire to pay by some other means
- shops around here ring the items into the till, then take your cash, then press "clear" and then "no sale" to open the cash drawer - if you ask for a receipt, they suddenly have to ring everything through again, and the cheeky ones print out a pre-cash "receipt" (i.e. just a summary of what has been rung-up so far) and then (you guessed it) clear the till. By shops I mean most of the ones in my area that aren't chains of one sort or another - the number is startling
- most of the local "corner shops" sell "under the counter" cigarettes (for cash, of course) at a punchy discount
- black cabs and card machines (as already mentioned) - Hailo was great because it allowed you get a receipt from their system, but more than once I've been asked if I mind them cancelling the Hailo "hail" and then starting a fresh hire for me...
The list goes on, and is an everyday part of life here I'm afraid.
You could use all that saved cash to move to a part of London where all that didn't happen
One further observation: use of cash seems to be more prevalent where there are strong marginal tax reasons for doing so.
25% of London households receive Council Tax Benefit. Half of all London 0-19 year olds live in a family receiving tax credits. 40% of households in inner London receive Housing Benefit. For London as a whole, HB is 26% (vs 20% nationwide).
The marginal impact of higher declared earnings can be tough - one really is working "for free" if not "for a loss." Recent comparison show that a couple living in Hackney earning £35k pa are just as well off as a couple living next door in Hackney earning £85k pa - tax credits, housing benefits, higher rate taxation, etc. With housing, especially, so massively expensive in London, this is a very big deal.
Of course these effects are common, but not the same in impact. In London, it is hard as (say) a plumber to have a moderate lifestyle without hitting the VAT turnover threshold; outside of London it is much easier to do so. So anything that puts you over the threshold can have a disproportionate effect on your income (if billing private clients).
Solutions are easy, if not attractive: VAT threshold set very low (£12k or something similar), remove cash.
25% of London households receive Council Tax Benefit. Half of all London 0-19 year olds live in a family receiving tax credits. 40% of households in inner London receive Housing Benefit. For London as a whole, HB is 26% (vs 20% nationwide).
The marginal impact of higher declared earnings can be tough - one really is working "for free" if not "for a loss." Recent comparison show that a couple living in Hackney earning £35k pa are just as well off as a couple living next door in Hackney earning £85k pa - tax credits, housing benefits, higher rate taxation, etc. With housing, especially, so massively expensive in London, this is a very big deal.
Of course these effects are common, but not the same in impact. In London, it is hard as (say) a plumber to have a moderate lifestyle without hitting the VAT turnover threshold; outside of London it is much easier to do so. So anything that puts you over the threshold can have a disproportionate effect on your income (if billing private clients).
Solutions are easy, if not attractive: VAT threshold set very low (£12k or something similar), remove cash.
hyphen said:
If you caught more buses instead of cabs, not hired 100 tradesman, shopped at larger chains and supermarkets instead of corner shops and so on....
You could use all that saved cash to move to a part of London where all that didn't happen
LOL, if I could avoid paying for anything then, you're right, I would be considerably wealthier, albeit more sleep-deprived.You could use all that saved cash to move to a part of London where all that didn't happen
And FWIW property in my bit of London is now more expensive than most (possibly propped up by all that cash sloshing around the area...)
jamoor said:
C70R said:
I don't know if I'm typical, but I'd say I was pretty representative of London. I've typically used contactless payment (on my mobile) 4-5 times before I even get to the office most days... I rarely carry more than a couple of coins.
Indeed, I pay almost everything with my phone, even grocery shops.Don said:
I'm the same. Only the contactless is in my smartwatch. Brilliant.
For those who think this is all a bit new tech / yuppie / whatever, we use BPay (tag on keys, or a simple wrist band). Pre-paid, load it with credit online, can auto-popup (convenient) or not (stop loss if you lose it - max loss is the stored credit, and you can get that back if it hasn't been spent).Brilliant for children, festivals, camping, whatever, but also for everyday - no need for an Apple Watch, no need to wave a smartphone around in places you'd rather not, etc.
Costs a few £ to start with, but otherwise free to operate. Brilliant.
skwdenyer said:
- every tradesperson I've hired in the last 11 years bar only 2 (out of about 100) has offered to charge less in return for cash, and some have actively got upset and bolshy when I've expressed the desire to pay by some other means
.
b.
ks. 100 tradespeople in 11 years - are you outfitting a cruise ship, haven't you heard of contractors?I've hired about 10 different tradespeople in 10 years, often the same person a number of times. The system has always been get a quote from a couple, accept one of them, pay by cheque because I don't (and I suspect many people don't) keep a huge amount of cash lying around. Small job ( >£15) I'll pay by cash. Not one has suggested a reduction for cash payment. Again, must be a London thing.
KTF said:
skwdenyer said:
BPay
What is the advantage of this over just carrying your contactless debit card?- It is pre-paid. If you do not set it to auto-top-up, and lose it, your maximum loss is £30 (or whatever you load it with) (assuming some thief uses the credit - if you just lose it, you can recoup your £30)
- Top-up is instant on-line (or can be set to auto top-up)
- It does not contain your card details (nothing to read / copy / clone)
- It is a wrist band (no need for a wallet) or a fob to put on keys / watchstrap / etc.
- It is a cheap wrist band (don't care about damage, etc. compared to a smart watch)
- No need for secondary ID (like Apple Pay)
- You can have as many as you like (give one to a child, for instance)
In my case, I keep the band on all the time. If I walk out without a wallet / cash (quite common, for all sorts of reason), I have a means of payment. Well worth it for my use case.
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