Everyone is so offended.
Discussion
Murph7355 said:
otolith said:
Gammon will be gammon, and Sparts will be Sparts, but I don't think I remember an issue which divided sensible liberal minded people so much as trans rights.
If they haven't already done so, I think Viz needs to address this with an ensemble piece starring Millie Tant, Modern Parents and Sid The Sexist.
Expect this to happen with increasing frequency IMO. If they haven't already done so, I think Viz needs to address this with an ensemble piece starring Millie Tant, Modern Parents and Sid The Sexist.
Ranking of whose rights should be prioritised over whose has always been an unaddressed problem. At the risk of sounding hard done by etc it was pretty easy to ignore when it was men making the "complaints"... But now women are, it's interesting to see how it's causing more...confusion.
As things like equality level out in one dimension, other dimensions suddenly start to come into focus more. Expect this to happen in all sorts of areas very soon. Sit back and enjoy the fireworks (or probably something more like the end scene in Kingsmen
).I'd like to believe that once that has happened we will all find some calm middle ground and can all just get on with being happy with life. But the human condition won't allow that to happen. It will all swing the other way and those well read, erudite folks in comfy shoes and corduroy will scratch their heads wondering how things went so wrong, not realising they are reaping why they sowed.
In politics particularly this is the new cloak of anti-oppression that veils personal ambition - watching Labour recently speaking on the trans issue with the conviction of life-long held belief when in reality it was a course done last week, regurgitating rather than creating and imbuing language with an incomprehensible lexiconography provoking a rolling of the eyes if you don't understand it, as if it were innate knowledge of ages and not derived from uncertain conjecture and a dubious deconstructive philosophy. The 'social construct' is seen as intrinsically bad, without any question as to why it was there in the first place.
I feel sorry for the genuinely afflicted, I have compassion for those who feel they have not been given a fair crack of the whip - like the vast majority of normal people would and do - but just as the car is pulling into the parking space, someone has hit the accelerator and sent it crashing into the shopping carts.
When you portray the embers to be the towering inferno, and anyone disagreeing to be an arsonist, reality becomes fantastical and the more simple thinker will reject it completely rather than be persuaded to more nuanced positions.
Noodle1982 said:
How liberal and tolerant they are.8.4L 154 said:
Breadvan72 said:
Look at this: graffiti at a Vancouver rape crisis centre - the work of trans rights activists (in other words, a bunch of men who hate women).
https://twitter.com/tibby17/status/120779033016419...
Not quite as serious as Arson with reckless endangerment to life though is it.https://twitter.com/tibby17/status/120779033016419...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorksh...
And lets be honest the anti trans crowd are rather partial to a bit of graffiti and transphobic stickers and posters in public places complete with razor blades stuck underneath.
What do you think of the man who was allowed to self identify his way into a women's prison, where he raped a woman prisoner? How about the four men self identifying as women who beat up a female pensioner at Hyde Park Corner because she spoke out for the rights of women?
The problem here is not with those few adults who conscientiously transition via surgery, but with the men who remain physically as men but self identify as women, and then elbow their way into women's spaces. Is it OK for a man who self identifies as a woman to supervise girls changing at school? Must lesbian women agree to sleep with men who self identify as lesbian women, or else be labelled transphobes? Have you seen the photos of bearded drag queens being being allowed close physical contact with primary school children, while irresponsible teachers and parents look on, in breach of every precept of safeguarding? All because woke, yeah!
Their is also an attack on science. Claims are made that sex is not a binary thing, and that there are more than two sexes (NB, sex, not gender). Sheer nonsense, but woke, yeah.
Look also at the doctors who pressure children troubled by gender identity or sexual orientation to have life changing surgery and meds. There have been 35 recent staff resignations from the Tavistock clinic in protest at the trans othodoxy that has captured the place. See also the capture by trans activists (mostly straight men pretending to be women) of police, CPS, the Scottish Government, education authorities, etc. Note Starbucks donating money to Mermaids, a bizarre charity that pushes children to transition. "Trans away the gay", and all that, plus reinforcement of gender stereotypes that we should have outgrown.
The TRA movement is far from being progressive - it is on the contrary pushing regressive ideas about femininity and about homosexuality.
These issues are beginning to impact on public awareness, and a reason and evidence based counter to the magic pixie sparkly mermaid unicorn powder is beginning. By all means let those who have genuine GID be helped and supported, but not aggressive men flaunting beards while wearing dresses and seeking to silence women and LGB people.
Breadvan72 said:
What do you think of the man who was allowed to self identify his way into a women's prison, where he raped a woman prisoner?
Do you have a source? As if your about to reference Karen White then you should know she didn't rape anyone in prison, she was accused of and didn't contest two fairly minor assaults. The claim she raped anyone in prison is a dishonest claim and misreporting of the offence she was in prison for in the first place, not what she did while there.Breadvan72 said:
How about the four men self identifying as women who beat up a female pensioner at Hyde Park Corner because she spoke out for the rights of women?
You claim four men committed an assault, At most the police were looking for 2, anti trans people claimed it was three. None the less only one was charged and found guilty of a minor offence and was handed the minimum fine by the Judge whilst criticising Maria for her own behaviour and role in the lead up to the events.He declined to award her any damages. And as far as I am aware the defendant meets your next criteria below and is medically transitioning.Breadvan72] said:
The problem here is not with those few adults who conscientiously transition via surgery, but with the men who remain physically as men but self identify as women, and then elbow their way into women's spaces. Is it OK for a man who self identifies as a woman to supervise girls changing at school?
You misrepresent the proposed changes to the gender recognition act. Self Identification GRA is not waking up in the morning and deciding today i'm X its still a legal process involving a statutory declaration which i'm sure with your aware is punishable by 2 years in prison if made fraudulently.Even with a Gender recognition certificate it is still permissible to treat a transgender women differently if it is a proportionate means to a legitimate aim. So even if we extend the hand of believing a mans dishonest claim to be a woman and they have fraudulently obtained a GRC and have an updated birth certificate, it would still be legal to exclude them from participating in the activity you describe.
Breadvan72] said:
Must lesbian women agree to sleep with men who self identify as lesbian women, or else be labelled transphobes?
No one must agree to sleep with anyone they dont want to, to suggest trans people claim otherwise is again dishonest. There is the term cotton ceiling which is a myth perpetrated from wilful misunderstanding and misrepresentation of a discussion on the subject. Calling out transphobic attitudes by some people who happen to be lesbians is not homophobic or forcing them to have sex with anyone.
Breadvan72 said:
Have you seen the photos of bearded drag queens being being allowed close physical contact with primary school children, while irresponsible teachers and parents look on, in breach of every precept of safeguarding? All because woke, yeah!
They were reading kids stories. Your showing your own homophobia if you think drag is all about sex and Sexualization and implied paedophilia given your concern seems to be about gay men (drag queens) being around children. Pretty sure everyone involved (kids and adults) were just having an age appropriate fun time in costume Breadvan72 said:
Their is also an attack on science. Claims are made that sex is not a binary thing, and that there are more than two sexes (NB, sex, not gender). Sheer nonsense, but woke, yeah.
The consensus in the scientific community is that sex is not as black and white and clear cut as school sex ed classes have taught usBreadvan72 said:
Look also at the doctors who pressure children troubled by gender identity or sexual orientation to have life changing surgery and meds.
Which is not the experience of anyone actually under the care of the tavistock and portman. Quite apart from the astonishingly long waiting list there is great reluctance for any medical intervention, only a few trans kids are progressed onto puberty blockers after extensive assessment and reaching at least tanner stage II puberty. No child under the age of 16 will be prescribed any transition medication (cross sex hormones) and very few over 16's get it. Nobody under the age of 18 and to all intense and purposes mid 20 due to wait lists and delays in the adult gender identity service is getting any kind of transition related surgery in the UK on the NHSBreadvan72 said:
There have been 35 recent staff resignations from the Tavistock clinic in protest at the trans othodoxy that has captured the place.
I assume you have evidence of the claim of 35 staff resignations in protest, not just unsubstantiated media reports. A FOI request I have seen whilst not 100% conclusive indicates that the media reporting is somewhat misleading.Breadvan72 said:
See also the capture by trans activists (mostly straight men pretending to be women) of police, CPS, the Scottish Government, education authorities, etc. Note Starbucks donating money to Mermaids, a bizarre charity that pushes children to transition. "Trans away the gay", and all that, plus reinforcement of gender stereotypes that we should have outgrown.
your tin foil hat is slippingBreadvan72 said:
The TRA movement is far from being progressive - it is on the contrary pushing regressive ideas about femininity and about homosexuality.
These issues are beginning to impact on public awareness, and a reason and evidence based counter to the magic pixie sparkly mermaid unicorn powder is beginning. By all means let those who have genuine GID be helped and supported, but not aggressive men flaunting beards while wearing dresses and seeking to silence women and LGB people.
Silence women and LGB people. You mean all those people who have direct access to all the mainstream press and cry form its pages every week about how they are being silenced. who are on the radio and TV claiming the same, There were over 600 articles published about trans issues in the MSM last year, overwhelmingly negative and the voices of cisgender anti trans "we're being silenced" media. Very few actual trans voices are being heard, even fewer are those who support the view of the vast majority of trans people who are simply dismissed as TRA's despite overwhelmingly being adults who conscientiously transition who you said were not the problem.These issues are beginning to impact on public awareness, and a reason and evidence based counter to the magic pixie sparkly mermaid unicorn powder is beginning. By all means let those who have genuine GID be helped and supported, but not aggressive men flaunting beards while wearing dresses and seeking to silence women and LGB people.
Maybe don't believe everything you read in the Times and other press and talk to actual trans people who represent the majority view of the trans community..
Edited by 8.4L 154 on Thursday 20th February 22:27
8.4L 154 said:
Silence women and LGB people. You mean all those people who have direct access to all the mainstream press and cry form its pages every week about how they are being silenced. who are on the radio and TV claiming the same, There were over 600 articles published about trans issues in the MSM last year, overwhelmingly negative and the voices of cisgender anti trans "we're being silenced" media. Very few actual trans voices are being heard, even fewer are those who support the view of the vast majority of trans people who are simply dismissed as TRA's despite overwhelmingly being adults who conscientiously transition who you said were not the problem.
Maybe don't believe everything you read in the Times and other press and talk to actual trans people who represent the majority view of the trans community..
Is that you Titania?Maybe don't believe everything you read in the Times and other press and talk to actual trans people who represent the majority view of the trans community..
Edited by 8.4L 154 on Thursday 20th February 22:27
8.4L 154 said:
Breadvan72 said:
What do you think of the man who was allowed to self identify his way into a women's prison, where he raped a woman prisoner?
Do you have a source? As if your about to reference Karen White then you should know she didn't rape anyone in prison, she was accused of and didn't contest two fairly minor assaults. The claim she raped anyone in prison is a dishonest claim and misreporting of the offence she was in prison for in the first place, not what she did while there.Breadvan72 said:
How about the four men self identifying as women who beat up a female pensioner at Hyde Park Corner because she spoke out for the rights of women?
You claim four men committed an assault, At most the police were looking for 2, anti trans people claimed it was three. None the less only one was charged and found guilty of a minor offence and was handed the minimum fine by the Judge whilst criticising Maria for her own behaviour and role in the lead up to the events.He declined to award her any damages. And as far as I am aware the defendant meets your next criteria below and is medically transitioning.Breadvan72] said:
The problem here is not with those few adults who conscientiously transition via surgery, but with the men who remain physically as men but self identify as women, and then elbow their way into women's spaces. Is it OK for a man who self identifies as a woman to supervise girls changing at school?
You misrepresent the proposed changes to the gender recognition act. Self Identification GRA is not waking up in the morning and deciding today i'm X its still a legal process involving a statutory declaration which i'm sure with your aware is punishable by 2 years in prison if made fraudulently.Even with a Gender recognition certificate it is still permissible to treat a transgender women differently if it is a proportionate means to a legitimate aim. So even if we extend the hand of believing a mans dishonest claim to be a woman and they have fraudulently obtained a GRC and have an updated birth certificate, it would still be legal to exclude them from participating in the activity you describe.
Breadvan72] said:
Must lesbian women agree to sleep with men who self identify as lesbian women, or else be labelled transphobes?
No one must agree to sleep with anyone they dont want to, to suggest trans people claim otherwise is again dishonest. There is the term cotton ceiling which is a myth perpetrated from wilful misunderstanding and misrepresentation of a discussion on the subject. Calling out transphobic attitudes by some people who happen to be lesbians is not homophobic or forcing them to have sex with anyone.
Breadvan72 said:
Have you seen the photos of bearded drag queens being being allowed close physical contact with primary school children, while irresponsible teachers and parents look on, in breach of every precept of safeguarding? All because woke, yeah!
They were reading kids stories. Your showing your own homophobia if you think drag is all about sex and Sexualization and implied paedophilia given your concern seems to be about gay men (drag queens) being around children. Pretty sure everyone involved (kids and adults) were just having an age appropriate fun time in costume Breadvan72 said:
Their is also an attack on science. Claims are made that sex is not a binary thing, and that there are more than two sexes (NB, sex, not gender). Sheer nonsense, but woke, yeah.
The consensus in the scientific community is that sex is not as black and white and clear cut as school sex ed classes have taught usBreadvan72 said:
Look also at the doctors who pressure children troubled by gender identity or sexual orientation to have life changing surgery and meds.
Which is not the experience of anyone actually under the care of the tavistock and portman. Quite apart from the astonishingly long waiting list there is great reluctance for any medical intervention, only a few trans kids are progressed onto puberty blockers after extensive assessment and reaching at least tanner stage II puberty. No child under the age of 16 will be prescribed any transition medication (cross sex hormones) and very few over 16's get it. Nobody under the age of 18 and to all intense and purposes mid 20 due to wait lists and delays in the adult gender identity service is getting any kind of transition related surgery in the UK on the NHSBreadvan72 said:
There have been 35 recent staff resignations from the Tavistock clinic in protest at the trans othodoxy that has captured the place.
I assume you have evidence of the claim of 35 staff resignations in protest, not just unsubstantiated media reports. A FOI request I have seen whilst not 100% conclusive indicates that the media reporting is somewhat misleading.Breadvan72 said:
See also the capture by trans activists (mostly straight men pretending to be women) of police, CPS, the Scottish Government, education authorities, etc. Note Starbucks donating money to Mermaids, a bizarre charity that pushes children to transition. "Trans away the gay", and all that, plus reinforcement of gender stereotypes that we should have outgrown.
your tin foil hat is slippingBreadvan72 said:
The TRA movement is far from being progressive - it is on the contrary pushing regressive ideas about femininity and about homosexuality.
These issues are beginning to impact on public awareness, and a reason and evidence based counter to the magic pixie sparkly mermaid unicorn powder is beginning. By all means let those who have genuine GID be helped and supported, but not aggressive men flaunting beards while wearing dresses and seeking to silence women and LGB people.
Silence women and LGB people. You mean all those people who have direct access to all the mainstream press and cry form its pages every week about how they are being silenced. who are on the radio and TV claiming the same, There were over 600 articles published about trans issues in the MSM last year, overwhelmingly negative and the voices of cisgender anti trans "we're being silenced" media. Very few actual trans voices are being heard, even fewer are those who support the view of the vast majority of trans people who are simply dismissed as TRA's despite overwhelmingly being adults who conscientiously transition who you said were not the problem.These issues are beginning to impact on public awareness, and a reason and evidence based counter to the magic pixie sparkly mermaid unicorn powder is beginning. By all means let those who have genuine GID be helped and supported, but not aggressive men flaunting beards while wearing dresses and seeking to silence women and LGB people.
Maybe don't believe everything you read in the Times and other press and talk to actual trans people who represent the majority view of the trans community..
Edited by 8.4L 154 on Thursday 20th February 22:27
8.4L 154 said:
Breadvan72 said:
Look at this: graffiti at a Vancouver rape crisis centre - the work of trans rights activists (in other words, a bunch of men who hate women).
https://twitter.com/tibby17/status/120779033016419...
Not quite as serious as Arson with reckless endangerment to life though is it.https://twitter.com/tibby17/status/120779033016419...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorksh...
And lets be honest the anti trans crowd are rather partial to a bit of graffiti and transphobic stickers and posters in public places complete with razor blades stuck underneath.
andy_s said:
I said some years ago that it's an ouroboros; the tolerant become intolerant, the liberal become illiberal, the freedom seekers become the guards and the peacemakers become the warmongers.
In politics particularly this is the new cloak of anti-oppression that veils personal ambition - watching Labour recently speaking on the trans issue with the conviction of life-long held belief when in reality it was a course done last week, regurgitating rather than creating and imbuing language with an incomprehensible lexiconography provoking a rolling of the eyes if you don't understand it, as if it were innate knowledge of ages and not derived from uncertain conjecture and a dubious deconstructive philosophy. The 'social construct' is seen as intrinsically bad, without any question as to why it was there in the first place.
I feel sorry for the genuinely afflicted, I have compassion for those who feel they have not been given a fair crack of the whip - like the vast majority of normal people would and do - but just as the car is pulling into the parking space, someone has hit the accelerator and sent it crashing into the shopping carts.
When you portray the embers to be the towering inferno, and anyone disagreeing to be an arsonist, reality becomes fantastical and the more simple thinker will reject it completely rather than be persuaded to more nuanced positions.
Nailed it.In politics particularly this is the new cloak of anti-oppression that veils personal ambition - watching Labour recently speaking on the trans issue with the conviction of life-long held belief when in reality it was a course done last week, regurgitating rather than creating and imbuing language with an incomprehensible lexiconography provoking a rolling of the eyes if you don't understand it, as if it were innate knowledge of ages and not derived from uncertain conjecture and a dubious deconstructive philosophy. The 'social construct' is seen as intrinsically bad, without any question as to why it was there in the first place.
I feel sorry for the genuinely afflicted, I have compassion for those who feel they have not been given a fair crack of the whip - like the vast majority of normal people would and do - but just as the car is pulling into the parking space, someone has hit the accelerator and sent it crashing into the shopping carts.
When you portray the embers to be the towering inferno, and anyone disagreeing to be an arsonist, reality becomes fantastical and the more simple thinker will reject it completely rather than be persuaded to more nuanced positions.
Some startlingly mindless woke drivel above. Note the absurd claim that indicates that sex is not binary. Science does no such thing, and assertions to the contrary are literally crazy. Note also the attempt to brush away the violence directed at women by men pretending to be women. Oh, it was just a little assault! Nothing to worry about! Women and LGB people should shut shut up. Why? Because men who think that wearing a dress makes a human a woman tell them to. Women!
Listen to men and do as you are told! Who needs Gilead when you have TRAs, eh?
Listen to men and do as you are told! Who needs Gilead when you have TRAs, eh?
Breadvan72 said:
Some startlingly mindless woke drivel above. Note the absurd claim that indicates that sex is not binary. Science does no such thing, and assertions to the contrary are literally crazy. Note also the attempt to brush away the violence directed at women by men pretending to be women. Oh, it was just a little assault! Nothing to worry about! Women and LGB people should shut shut up. Why? Because men who think that wearing a dress makes a human a woman tell them to. Women!
Listen to men and do as you are told! Who needs Gilead when you have TRAs, eh?
Well look, I believe in science over most things, there aren't hundreds of genders as is claimed, but biology doesn't really account for homosexuality, which is more in the realms of psychology.Listen to men and do as you are told! Who needs Gilead when you have TRAs, eh?
Breadvan72 said:
And some sensible thoughts from a transgender activist:https://unherd.com/2020/02/the-labour-party-has-ch...
I think the offence thing has been obvious for a long time now. I'm not sure it's not getting worse though and descending into something else.
I can't quite put my finger on it but after Caroline Flack, which seemed totally unrelated, some of the words from Yorkshire Tea made me think all this madness is part of the same trend.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-51621812
I can't quite put my finger on it but after Caroline Flack, which seemed totally unrelated, some of the words from Yorkshire Tea made me think all this madness is part of the same trend.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-51621812
768 said:
I think the offence thing has been obvious for a long time now. I'm not sure it's not getting worse though and descending into something else.
I can't quite put my finger on it but after Caroline Flack, which seemed totally unrelated, some of the words from Yorkshire Tea made me think all this madness is part of the same trend.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-51621812
Those of us not on the far left must now boycott left shoes in retaliation.I can't quite put my finger on it but after Caroline Flack, which seemed totally unrelated, some of the words from Yorkshire Tea made me think all this madness is part of the same trend.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-51621812
768 said:
I think the offence thing has been obvious for a long time now. I'm not sure it's not getting worse though and descending into something else.
I can't quite put my finger on it but after Caroline Flack, which seemed totally unrelated, some of the words from Yorkshire Tea made me think all this madness is part of the same trend.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-51621812
Seriously? People were saying to boycott tea because a Tory drinks it??!! I can't quite put my finger on it but after Caroline Flack, which seemed totally unrelated, some of the words from Yorkshire Tea made me think all this madness is part of the same trend.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-51621812
Haha, how awful most it be trying to get through the day for some people?
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