Everyone is so offended.
Discussion
R Mutt said:
...except every white male who has become something other than male (quite a few) has traded their 'privilege' for the sanctity of trans rights...
I think you have to be particularly fearful of people who are not like you to think that someone who has transitioned gets to be a superhero by putting on a cloak of trans rights.The transsexuals I've worked with have been attacked (physically and verbally) and have had to work very hard to retain their jobs (luckily Cambridge is a fairly enlightened city, but transitioning is not a easy thing to do whilst maintaining a job). Their rights (to protection and support) are not something to bludgeon other people with, but an unfortunately necessary safety blanket. There's no 'privilege' to feeling vulnerable and uncertain about your future.
Tuna said:
R Mutt said:
...except every white male who has become something other than male (quite a few) has traded their 'privilege' for the sanctity of trans rights...
I think you have to be particularly fearful of people who are not like you to think that someone who has transitioned gets to be a superhero by putting on a cloak of trans rights.The transsexuals I've worked with have been attacked (physically and verbally) and have had to work very hard to retain their jobs (luckily Cambridge is a fairly enlightened city, but transitioning is not a easy thing to do whilst maintaining a job). Their rights (to protection and support) are not something to bludgeon other people with, but an unfortunately necessary safety blanket. There's no 'privilege' to feeling vulnerable and uncertain about your future.
Mulan: Disney drop character following #MeToo movement
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-5170...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-5170...
article said:
A Disney producer says the character Li Shang is missing from the live-action remake of Mulan, as his storyline is not "appropriate" in the #MeToo era.
The film tells of a woman who disguises herself as a man to fight in place of her father in China's imperial army.
In the 1998 animated original, based on the Chinese legend of Hua Mulan, General Li Shang developed a bond with Mulan's male warrior alter-ego Ping.
After her true identity was revealed, she and Li Shang have dinner together.
Given recent revelations in Hollywood, however, producer Jason Reed confirmed they were uncomfortable with the power dynamics in their relationship.
The film tells of a woman who disguises herself as a man to fight in place of her father in China's imperial army.
In the 1998 animated original, based on the Chinese legend of Hua Mulan, General Li Shang developed a bond with Mulan's male warrior alter-ego Ping.
After her true identity was revealed, she and Li Shang have dinner together.
Given recent revelations in Hollywood, however, producer Jason Reed confirmed they were uncomfortable with the power dynamics in their relationship.
g3org3y said:
Mulan: Disney drop character following #MeToo movement
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-5170...
Film makers are going to have a hard job making accurate historical dramas if the male romantic interests cannot be older or of higher social standing than the female ones.https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-5170...
article said:
A Disney producer says the character Li Shang is missing from the live-action remake of Mulan, as his storyline is not "appropriate" in the #MeToo era.
The film tells of a woman who disguises herself as a man to fight in place of her father in China's imperial army.
In the 1998 animated original, based on the Chinese legend of Hua Mulan, General Li Shang developed a bond with Mulan's male warrior alter-ego Ping.
After her true identity was revealed, she and Li Shang have dinner together.
Given recent revelations in Hollywood, however, producer Jason Reed confirmed they were uncomfortable with the power dynamics in their relationship.
The film tells of a woman who disguises herself as a man to fight in place of her father in China's imperial army.
In the 1998 animated original, based on the Chinese legend of Hua Mulan, General Li Shang developed a bond with Mulan's male warrior alter-ego Ping.
After her true identity was revealed, she and Li Shang have dinner together.
Given recent revelations in Hollywood, however, producer Jason Reed confirmed they were uncomfortable with the power dynamics in their relationship.
bbc said:
In the 1998 animated original, based on the Chinese legend of Hua Mulan, General Li Shang developed a bond with Mulan's male warrior alter-ego Ping.
You can't adopt or embrace a different culture, because that's cultural appropriation, but you can rewrite it? Hard to follow how these rules work 
Today, Sefton Council flew a flag celebrating the forthcoming International Women's Day. This was alleged to be transphobia. Yep, you heard that right. The Council caved in and took the flag down.
Two points here: the so called moderate trans position appears a bit quiet. The extremist position is, however, well evident, and the extremist position insists on dominating discourse, de-platforming dissenters, and branding all who oppose it as hate criminals. Secondly, this incident demonstrates the extent to which government bodies have been cowed by the shouting. One complaint from a man is all it takes for the public servants to give in.
Other news: a rape crisis centre has declared its toilets gender neutral. Righty ho.
The war on women goes on, but everyone must "be kind", and must on no account upset the delicate feelings of the self ID campaigners.
Meanwhile, some reasoned voices, in an open letter about Scottish Poetry's decision to take a stand against no platforming. The last paragraph summarises the position very well.
Two points here: the so called moderate trans position appears a bit quiet. The extremist position is, however, well evident, and the extremist position insists on dominating discourse, de-platforming dissenters, and branding all who oppose it as hate criminals. Secondly, this incident demonstrates the extent to which government bodies have been cowed by the shouting. One complaint from a man is all it takes for the public servants to give in.
Other news: a rape crisis centre has declared its toilets gender neutral. Righty ho.
The war on women goes on, but everyone must "be kind", and must on no account upset the delicate feelings of the self ID campaigners.
Meanwhile, some reasoned voices, in an open letter about Scottish Poetry's decision to take a stand against no platforming. The last paragraph summarises the position very well.
Edited by anonymous-user on Monday 2nd March 19:46
Breadvan72 said:
.
Two points here: the so called moderate trans position appears a bit quiet.
Isn't that the whole point about this thread? Moderates, who can understand both sides of the argument and see an outcome that isn't just black or white don't contribute (or are drowned out). Two points here: the so called moderate trans position appears a bit quiet.
There's no mileage on social media for 'meh', or 'yes, but..' - the algorithms that drive Twitter, Facebook and all the rest thrive on reaction. And how do you get a reaction? By being extreme. I can guarantee you are never going to see a Tweet from me - not because I don't use Twitter, but because I don't shout and scream and cultivate reaction. It's either got to be outrage, or super positivity.
If you see a post on Twitter, shrug your shoulders and think "that's a bit ridiculous" you are not heard. If you rant and shout and call the other side rude words, you get promoted, shared and liked.
So the overriding impression to anyone dipping into such discussions is that there are 'sides' who violently disagree with each other, who are offended by the others' viewpoint. And almost inevitably, you'll pick the side that most appeals to your sensibilities - not because the extreme is something you agree with, but because one extreme or the other has people you more identify with. Maybe it's on political grounds, or maybe you have an affinity for academia, or geek culture, or some other random association.
You get sucked into the extremist debate because that's all you get presented with. People trying to validate or invalidate extreme points of view with their own, noisy extreme points of view.
Or maybe you're just a sucker for a simplified narrative that paints things in terms of black and white, goodies and baddies.
And seriously, on the trans front, "Person gets sexual reassignment surgery and lives an unremarkable life as a normal human being" never gets reported, despite the fact that this is by a long, long way the majority case. It's not news, and it's certainly not news on social media.
Edited by Tuna on Monday 2nd March 20:24
Breadvan72 said:
Today, Sefton Council flew a flag celebrating the forthcoming International Women's Day. This was alleged to be transphobia. Yep, you heard that right. The Council caved in and took the flag down.
Two points here: the so called moderate trans position appears a bit quiet. The extremist position is, however, well evident, and the extremist position insists on dominating discourse, de-platforming dissenters, and branding all who oppose it as hate criminals. Secondly, this incident demonstrates the extent to which government bodies have been cowed by the shouting. One complaint from a man is all it takes for the public servants to give in.
Other news: a rape crisis centre has declared its toilets gender neutral. Righty ho.
The war on women goes on, but everyone must "be kind", and must on no account upset the delicate feelings of the self ID campaigners.
Meanwhile, some reasoned voices, in an open letter about Scottish Poetry's decision to take a stand against no platforming. The last paragraph summarises the position very well.
Some context for Sefton Council flag flying.Two points here: the so called moderate trans position appears a bit quiet. The extremist position is, however, well evident, and the extremist position insists on dominating discourse, de-platforming dissenters, and branding all who oppose it as hate criminals. Secondly, this incident demonstrates the extent to which government bodies have been cowed by the shouting. One complaint from a man is all it takes for the public servants to give in.
Other news: a rape crisis centre has declared its toilets gender neutral. Righty ho.
The war on women goes on, but everyone must "be kind", and must on no account upset the delicate feelings of the self ID campaigners.
Meanwhile, some reasoned voices, in an open letter about Scottish Poetry's decision to take a stand against no platforming. The last paragraph summarises the position very well.
Edited by Breadvan72 on Monday 2nd March 19:46
This is the note they put up about why they were flying the flag.
Great they are celebrating international women's day, excepth they never bothered to look to see what the IWD flag looks like. Here it is.
However it seems likely anti trans voices on the council misled them into flying this flag instead.
Seems ok, nothing wrong with that its just the dictionary definition of Woman. EXCEPT its a dog whistle, an innocent sounding phrase with a hidden meaning designed to only be seen/heard by those it targets. Its also a context is everything problem. A banana isn't racist and is just a banana 99.99% of the time, except when its thrown onto the football pitch in front of a black player.
The context behind the flag. The black and white Adult Human Female campaign is the brain child and mini business of Kellie-Jay Keen-Minshull AKA Posie Parker and if there is one demographic she hates more than Muslims its trans people. I could now attach a selection of her tweets but fear they are all too extreme and will result in a ban for me. Suffice to say they include wishing death of trans women, Stating trans men should be sterilised, that gay people suffered head trauma as children. She travelled to the USA on behest of the Heritage Foundation (there is that far right money) to harass a trans women in her place of business, a thoroughly nice person all round, so no, its not just an innocent flag carrying the dictionary definition of women in that context and neither was it a flag celebrating IWD, it was something far more sinister to trans people. Trans people would love to have seen the actual IWD flag flying for a week.
Edited by 8.4L 154 on Monday 2nd March 21:56
Breadvan72 said:
Meanwhile, some reasoned voices, in an open letter about Scottish Poetry's decision to take a stand against no platforming. The last paragraph summarises the position very well.
Oh and here is the letter from the other side.Edited by Breadvan72 on Monday 2nd March 19:46
letter said:
We are writing to you as trans and non-binary authors, working in or with connections to Scotland, and supported by people from diverse backgrounds and identities, to express our deep concerns regarding the Scottish Poetry Library’s recent public statement on so-called ‘no-platforming’,
We are worried that current communications may reflect serious institutional transphobia, and a failure to understand the library’s obligations regarding trans people’s legal protections from discrimination.
We have all heard extensive distress from our trans friends, both readers and writers, as a result of your recent communications.
Despite the library’s previous work supporting LGBT+ writers and events, many trans people do not now think the Scottish Poetry Library is a welcoming and supportive space.
We also write in solidarity with writers combatting racism, misogyny, ableism and other structural oppressions, so that oppressive action can be freely spoken about.
We are asking for clarification on your code of conduct, your grievance processes, and the work you do to support and respect trans writers. We hope you will take seriously the need to rebuild trust.
Extreme stuff!We are worried that current communications may reflect serious institutional transphobia, and a failure to understand the library’s obligations regarding trans people’s legal protections from discrimination.
We have all heard extensive distress from our trans friends, both readers and writers, as a result of your recent communications.
Despite the library’s previous work supporting LGBT+ writers and events, many trans people do not now think the Scottish Poetry Library is a welcoming and supportive space.
We also write in solidarity with writers combatting racism, misogyny, ableism and other structural oppressions, so that oppressive action can be freely spoken about.
We are asking for clarification on your code of conduct, your grievance processes, and the work you do to support and respect trans writers. We hope you will take seriously the need to rebuild trust.
Breadvan72 said:
Other news: a rape crisis centre has declared its toilets gender neutral. Righty ho.
In other news. The rape crisis center with the gender neutral loos. Presumably had one accessable, one ladies and one gents. Now has one accessable and two open to anyone who needs it. All individual self contained loos.
8.4L 154 said:
Breadvan72 said:
Other news: a rape crisis centre has declared its toilets gender neutral. Righty ho.
In other news. The rape crisis center with the gender neutral loos. Presumably had one accessable, one ladies and one gents. Now has one accessable and two open to anyone who needs it. All individual self contained loos.
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