13yr old killed in F50
Discussion
TTmonkey said:
Soov330e said:
HTP99 said:
garyhun said:
Trying to understand a 'not guilty' plea. Are there other circumstances regarding the crash that we are not aware of?
A not guilty plea will go to a jury, perhaps he has been advised by his lawyers to do this because the "death by careless" charge is quite flimsy?He may also perhaps think that "there but for the grace of god".
Who knows.
Cold tyres, dust, good intentions....................
I feel a bit sorry for him to be honest.
Edited by Soov330e on Wednesday 26th July 16:13
AJL308 said:
To be guilty of causing death by careless driving the following criteria must be proved in relation to the carelessness part of it. A person drives carelessly if:
"....the way they drive falls below the minimum acceptable standard expected of a competent and careful driver.".
Without knowing the exact circumstances of the crash (which we don't) it's impossible to comment.
If it's a single vehicle accident it's difficult to see a defence."....the way they drive falls below the minimum acceptable standard expected of a competent and careful driver.".
Without knowing the exact circumstances of the crash (which we don't) it's impossible to comment.
AJL308 said:
carl_w said:
ISTR a discussion about this a long time ago, concerning the bloke who fell asleep at the wheel and his Land Rover careered off the road and into the path of a train from Doncaster->London.
He fell asleep at the wheel.0 If he'd have just ended up upside down in the barriers there would have been little in the way of prosecution. Can he be held responsible for what happened after he fell asleep, rather than the falling asleep (clearly so as they banged him up)?
This is true - there would have been nothing to prosecute other than perhaps dangerous driving at most. Given that his falling asleep ended in the deaths of several people and a sHe fell asleep at the wheel.0 If he'd have just ended up upside down in the barriers there would have been little in the way of prosecution. Can he be held responsible for what happened after he fell asleep, rather than the falling asleep (clearly so as they banged him up)?
t load of property damage (£25m or something) there were other crimes he could be tried for. Of course he can be held responsible for what happened after he fell asleep as his own actions caused it; he had spent the previous night up late on the phone and knew he was not fit to drive.TTmonkey said:
I felt a little bit sorry for that guy.
Don't really agree. Driving tired is only marginally less dangerous than driving drunk, it merely carries less social stigma. You get in a vehicle in either condition and there's a greatly increased chance of accident which can easily cause death or injury to others.Sure, it was freak luck he cause quite such a spectacular amount of carnage, but that's not really the point.
Digga said:
Sure, it was freak luck he cause quite such a spectacular amount of carnage, but that's not really the point.
Personally, I feel that is exactly the point. The criminal Courts used to agree in fact, but this was changed about 15 years ago. Previously the outcome of the incident was irrelevant; the driver's actions were taken in isolation as to whether they fell short of what was considered careless/dangerous etc. Should "luck" (or specifically bad luck) be taken into account to inflict sentence on someone? It must be horrific for the victim's family, regardless of what happens to the driver. However, on one day you could fall asleep at the wheel and drift on to the cats eyes and wake up, or clip the central reservation etc. On another its 5 yards further down the road and you drift onto a railway line and cause countless deaths and £25m of financial damage.
I'm not sure where I stand with it - for the grace of God go I is also my view - should someone suffer (greater) sentence because it just so happened their lapse of standards/concentration etc fell short with bad timing and the prevailing impact caused either death or significant loss? I feel bad for saying it, but the death, particularly of an innocent young child, can often bring about an emotive response and a requirement for someone to shoulder some blame.
My driving hasn't always been perfect. I make mistakes the same as the next person. I have been "fortunate" in that when such mistakes have occurred, I escaped with a bruised ego and some damaged bodywork.
Shnozz said:
I'm not sure where I stand with it - for the grace of God go I is also my view - should someone suffer (greater) sentence because it just so happened their lapse of standards/concentration etc fell short with bad timing and the prevailing impact caused either death or significant loss? I feel bad for saying it, but the death, particularly of an innocent young child, can often bring about an emotive response and a requirement for someone to shoulder some blame.
On this I'd agree. I just didn't 'feel sorry' for the guy, because he set off on his journey knowing he was not really in a fit state to drive and in a vehicle set-up that's by no means the easiest to drive.Digga said:
n this I'd agree. I just didn't 'feel sorry' for the guy, because he set off on his journey knowing he was not really in a fit state to drive and in a vehicle set-up that's by no means the easiest to drive.
Indeed, and I agree with that distinction. If one knowingly sets off unfit to drive, whether through drink, sleep deprivation or drugs, then they should be responsible for any failure associated with their condition, regardless.
Shnozz said:
Digga said:
n this I'd agree. I just didn't 'feel sorry' for the guy, because he set off on his journey knowing he was not really in a fit state to drive and in a vehicle set-up that's by no means the easiest to drive.
Indeed, and I agree with that distinction. If one knowingly sets off unfit to drive, whether through drink, sleep deprivation or drugs, then they should be responsible for any failure associated with their condition, regardless.
Shnozz said:
Digga said:
n this I'd agree. I just didn't 'feel sorry' for the guy, because he set off on his journey knowing he was not really in a fit state to drive and in a vehicle set-up that's by no means the easiest to drive.
Indeed, and I agree with that distinction. If one knowingly sets off unfit to drive, whether through drink, sleep deprivation or drugs, then they should be responsible for any failure associated with their condition, regardless.
Truffles said:
The best the prosecution can come up with is "maybe he didn't get LHD, didn't see the bend, and didn't know it would go very fast if he pressed that pedal hard"...?I think the drivers defence that something wrong happened and it just shot off will be his downfall.
No one gets into an F50 with a 13 year old child to impres and attempts to drive down the road like a snail. Nope, doesn't wash with me.
And this balls about it being LHD being a factor. FFS. He'd even driven it before, and no doubt many other LHD stuff previously. It ain't hard to drive a LHD.
He'd have been better saying that he blipped the throttle and his clutch foot slipped and that it was an accident.
It will be interesting to see if witnesses confirm that he made the engine rev or not before the accident. Cars don't end up upside down without someone pressing the go peddle unless they fall off a lorry or something.
No one gets into an F50 with a 13 year old child to impres and attempts to drive down the road like a snail. Nope, doesn't wash with me.
And this balls about it being LHD being a factor. FFS. He'd even driven it before, and no doubt many other LHD stuff previously. It ain't hard to drive a LHD.
He'd have been better saying that he blipped the throttle and his clutch foot slipped and that it was an accident.
It will be interesting to see if witnesses confirm that he made the engine rev or not before the accident. Cars don't end up upside down without someone pressing the go peddle unless they fall off a lorry or something.
TooMany2cvs said:
Truffles said:
The best the prosecution can come up with is "maybe he didn't get LHD, didn't see the bend, and didn't know it would go very fast if he pressed that pedal hard"...?TTmonkey said:
I think the drivers defence that something wrong happened and it just shot off will be his downfall.
No one gets into an F50 with a 13 year old child to impres and attempts to drive down the road like a snail. Nope, doesn't wash with me.
And this balls about it being LHD being a factor. FFS. He'd even driven it before, and no doubt many other LHD stuff previously. It ain't hard to drive a LHD.
He'd have been better saying that he blipped the throttle and his clutch foot slipped and that it was an accident.
It will be interesting to see if witnesses confirm that he made the engine rev or not before the accident. Cars don't end up upside down without someone pressing the go peddle unless they fall off a lorry or something.
Do you mean he should have lied or do you mean he is obviously telling poor thought out lies and should have done betterNo one gets into an F50 with a 13 year old child to impres and attempts to drive down the road like a snail. Nope, doesn't wash with me.
And this balls about it being LHD being a factor. FFS. He'd even driven it before, and no doubt many other LHD stuff previously. It ain't hard to drive a LHD.
He'd have been better saying that he blipped the throttle and his clutch foot slipped and that it was an accident.
It will be interesting to see if witnesses confirm that he made the engine rev or not before the accident. Cars don't end up upside down without someone pressing the go peddle unless they fall off a lorry or something.
TTmonkey said:
Shnozz said:
Digga said:
n this I'd agree. I just didn't 'feel sorry' for the guy, because he set off on his journey knowing he was not really in a fit state to drive and in a vehicle set-up that's by no means the easiest to drive.
Indeed, and I agree with that distinction. If one knowingly sets off unfit to drive, whether through drink, sleep deprivation or drugs, then they should be responsible for any failure associated with their condition, regardless.
https://www.rospa.com/road-safety/advice/drivers/f...
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