13yr old killed in F50
Discussion
Ructions said:
ape x said:
Fort Jefferson said:
It saddens me that this thread exists because it was a Ferrari F50 that crashed, and not a 13 year old boy that died.
R.I.P
Imagine how this tread would be if the driver was Muslim and in an stolen Audi S3!R.I.P
Fort Jefferson said:
It saddens me that this thread exists because it was a Ferrari F50 that crashed, and not a 13 year old boy that died.
R.I.P
Why?R.I.P
People of all ages die in car accidents all the time, it's just not interesting but when it's in an ultra rare supercar there's more to be discussed.
Fort Jefferson said:
It saddens me that this thread exists because it was a Ferrari F50 that crashed, and not a 13 year old boy that died.
R.I.P
Sorry but that is completely misleading and incorrect, this thread exists in the news section where as a car community we discuss news. Next to this thread in the news section is the KFC chicken shortage story, that has nothing to do with cars? As do countless other threads in this section of the forum.R.I.P
TooMany2cvs said:
Gameface said:
Fair enough. Missed that bit.
Is the father involved in the business?
Not a director.Is the father involved in the business?
https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/0951990...
25-50% of voting stock is owned by the Swiss ex-director, Girardo, who seems to be ex-Bonhams and a fairly serious player.
The whole story is a depressing read though isn’t it? A cautionary tale.
Everyone was probably enjoying a lovely August afternoon. A young lad enraptured. A mother and her partner happy to see the kid enjoying himself. A man with a niche but sturdy business merrily ready to put a deeper smile on the lad’s face. Cobden’s dad bouncing friendly conversation around as they all stood by and listened to the sound of a lovely car starting up.
How things can go so wrong, so quickly.
I can’t speculate on Cobden’s defence. But in his heart of hearts if he knows it wasn’t down to any mechanical issue with the F50, then the best thing he could do is just say he made a mistake. If that’s the case. A (brief) custodial, and he’ll be back with his family, picking up the remnants of his business whilst he’s still a young man. It’ll be easier to look in the mirror as the years go by, as much as the wish to turn the clock back every single day doesn’t dissipate.
No one could have envisaged a summers afternoon ending in utter disaster from such innocuous beginnings. But it did.
As John Bradford may have said, “....there but for the grace of God...”
tigerkoi said:
The whole story is a depressing read though isn’t it? A cautionary tale.
Everyone was probably enjoying a lovely August afternoon. A young lad enraptured. A mother and her partner happy to see the kid enjoying himself. A man with a niche but sturdy business merrily ready to put a deeper smile on the lad’s face. Cobden’s dad bouncing friendly conversation around as they all stood by and listened to the sound of a lovely car starting up.
How things can go so wrong, so quickly.
I can’t speculate on Cobden’s defence. But in his heart of hearts if he knows it wasn’t down to any mechanical issue with the F50, then the best thing he could do is just say he made a mistake. If that’s the case. A (brief) custodial, and he’ll be back with his family, picking up the remnants of his business whilst he’s still a young man. It’ll be easier to look in the mirror as the years go by, as much as the wish to turn the clock back every single day doesn’t dissipate.
No one could have envisaged a summers afternoon ending in utter disaster from such innocuous beginnings. But it did.
As John Bradford may have said, “....there but for the grace of God...”
100% correct. It's easy to become pious, particularly considering the horrible outcome. But on so many levels now is the time for the driver to do the right thing and explain what happened, openly and honestly, and take whatever the consequences whatever they may be. I would hope if ever I faced similar circumstances, that is what I would do. Everyone was probably enjoying a lovely August afternoon. A young lad enraptured. A mother and her partner happy to see the kid enjoying himself. A man with a niche but sturdy business merrily ready to put a deeper smile on the lad’s face. Cobden’s dad bouncing friendly conversation around as they all stood by and listened to the sound of a lovely car starting up.
How things can go so wrong, so quickly.
I can’t speculate on Cobden’s defence. But in his heart of hearts if he knows it wasn’t down to any mechanical issue with the F50, then the best thing he could do is just say he made a mistake. If that’s the case. A (brief) custodial, and he’ll be back with his family, picking up the remnants of his business whilst he’s still a young man. It’ll be easier to look in the mirror as the years go by, as much as the wish to turn the clock back every single day doesn’t dissipate.
No one could have envisaged a summers afternoon ending in utter disaster from such innocuous beginnings. But it did.
As John Bradford may have said, “....there but for the grace of God...”
EddieSteadyGo said:
tigerkoi said:
The whole story is a depressing read though isn’t it? A cautionary tale.
Everyone was probably enjoying a lovely August afternoon. A young lad enraptured. A mother and her partner happy to see the kid enjoying himself. A man with a niche but sturdy business merrily ready to put a deeper smile on the lad’s face. Cobden’s dad bouncing friendly conversation around as they all stood by and listened to the sound of a lovely car starting up.
How things can go so wrong, so quickly.
I can’t speculate on Cobden’s defence. But in his heart of hearts if he knows it wasn’t down to any mechanical issue with the F50, then the best thing he could do is just say he made a mistake. If that’s the case. A (brief) custodial, and he’ll be back with his family, picking up the remnants of his business whilst he’s still a young man. It’ll be easier to look in the mirror as the years go by, as much as the wish to turn the clock back every single day doesn’t dissipate.
No one could have envisaged a summers afternoon ending in utter disaster from such innocuous beginnings. But it did.
As John Bradford may have said, “....there but for the grace of God...”
100% correct. It's easy to become pious, particularly considering the horrible outcome. But on so many levels now is the time for the driver to do the right thing and explain what happened, openly and honestly, and take whatever the consequences whatever they may be. I would hope if ever I faced similar circumstances, that is what I would do. Everyone was probably enjoying a lovely August afternoon. A young lad enraptured. A mother and her partner happy to see the kid enjoying himself. A man with a niche but sturdy business merrily ready to put a deeper smile on the lad’s face. Cobden’s dad bouncing friendly conversation around as they all stood by and listened to the sound of a lovely car starting up.
How things can go so wrong, so quickly.
I can’t speculate on Cobden’s defence. But in his heart of hearts if he knows it wasn’t down to any mechanical issue with the F50, then the best thing he could do is just say he made a mistake. If that’s the case. A (brief) custodial, and he’ll be back with his family, picking up the remnants of his business whilst he’s still a young man. It’ll be easier to look in the mirror as the years go by, as much as the wish to turn the clock back every single day doesn’t dissipate.
No one could have envisaged a summers afternoon ending in utter disaster from such innocuous beginnings. But it did.
As John Bradford may have said, “....there but for the grace of God...”
However it seems quite possible to me that the driver does not really understand why it went so wrong especially if he had driven in a similar style on the same track before with no mishaps. Perhaps it is natural for him to look for something else as an explanation- a defect in the car or something else strange.
The fact is, even if there was something about the car which contributed, it would not have mattered had he been driving sensibly and with seat belts worn. He needs to accept this for his own sake as well as others.
DomesticM said:
If neither of them were wearing a seatbelt then I have less sympathy as both are old enough to know better.
Trolling much? The average 13yo boy would be pant-wettingly excited about getting an unexpected ride in an F50. ‘Clunk, click every trip’ (for those old enough to remember) would’ve been way down his list of priorities.
Had Cobden exercised just a tiny amount of responsibility (“buckle up son, just in case”) then it’s fair to say the worst outcome of this would be one very hefty insurance claim, and a damaged rep for his business that supposedly looks after people’s cars.
All of course very easy to say in hindsight but he’s the adult here, he should have taken that responsibility, he did not. My kid is 3 today - I might do max 80mph on the motorway with him in our Eurobox (my risk) but if I’m ever ferrying one of his mates about I religiously adhere to speed limits, often drive under them, its a case of Driving Miss Daisy, due to having someone else’s precious cargo on board. Cobden is a father - he should have understood this without even thinking about it.
His defence of “faulty car” just smacks of him trying to wriggle off the hook.
PurpleTurtle said:
DomesticM said:
If neither of them were wearing a seatbelt then I have less sympathy as both are old enough to know better.
Trolling much? I can tell you one thing about railway sleepers, which post appear to be, they are very strong and to get one to rotate out of the ground would require the material back filled around it to be poor and a large amount of energy. It doesn't even look like there is a scratch on the thing. If it has been concreted into place it may have held up and stopped the car whilst it deformed around the post or sheared it of at the ground, instead the ground has failed and acted as a launch ramp. Did the car whilst rotating in the air clear the undamaged posts etc. Of did the car spin back around clockwise?
Just watching an F40 vs F50 video, quite old but this struck me at about 1m14s.. https://youtu.be/5sXCiBtFcu8?t=1m8s
So gave it too much off the corner and as it hooked up broke traction, either direct or the result of a tank slapper spears into the sleepers, launching the car into the air and a 270 degree spin and flip. First impact upside down and bounces over onto the wheels as it comes to a rest.
Lack of experience driving the car likely means the driver really doesn't have clue what actually happened to cause it?
The harrowing thing looking at those pictures though is the lack of damage to the main body of the car and the potential difference those seat belts would have made.
So gave it too much off the corner and as it hooked up broke traction, either direct or the result of a tank slapper spears into the sleepers, launching the car into the air and a 270 degree spin and flip. First impact upside down and bounces over onto the wheels as it comes to a rest.
Lack of experience driving the car likely means the driver really doesn't have clue what actually happened to cause it?
The harrowing thing looking at those pictures though is the lack of damage to the main body of the car and the potential difference those seat belts would have made.
ALawson said:
PurpleTurtle said:
DomesticM said:
If neither of them were wearing a seatbelt then I have less sympathy as both are old enough to know better.
Trolling much? I can tell you one thing about railway sleepers, which post appear to be, they are very strong and to get one to rotate out of the ground would require the material back filled around it to be poor and a large amount of energy. It doesn't even look like there is a scratch on the thing. If it has been concreted into place it may have held up and stopped the car whilst it deformed around the post or sheared it of at the ground, instead the ground has failed and acted as a launch ramp. Did the car whilst rotating in the air clear the undamaged posts etc. Of did the car spin back around clockwise?
Byker28i said:
I would have thought the more logical explanation is he gave it beans to show off, back end stepped out and he let go of the throttle, causing throttle off oversteer. That would throw the car sideways into the sleeper, which could then have spun on the road missing the second sleeper (hence the dirt/marks) and then would be in the position to go backwards into the fence where it finished. The rotating force probably threw the child from the car. I can't see it flipped.
I agree Seems fairly simpleBack and engine hit first post, spins and noses into fence, completes spin and ends where it is.
I've flipped an open top mid engined car end over end with a bit of a barrel roll in the air and it looked far worse than that afterwards. It also left some fairly substantial divots.
Fortunately I had my seatbelt on. Airbag went off in my face as I hunched down and was actually very smooth. Only injury I got was when I undid the seatbelt not really knowing how I had landed. Gravity soon informed me I had landed on the passenger door and I cut my finger as I fell.
tigerkoi said:
Everyone was probably enjoying a lovely August afternoon. A young lad enraptured. A mother and her partner happy to see the kid enjoying himself. A man with a niche but sturdy business merrily ready to put a deeper smile on the lad’s face. Cobden’s dad bouncing friendly conversation around as they all stood by and listened to the sound of a lovely car starting up.
How things can go so wrong, so quickly.
Exactly so. How things can go so wrong, so quickly.
Eric Mc said:
The law will put any responsibilty on the adult in the situation. No ifs or buts.
Highway Code, Rule 100. “The driver MUST ensure that all children under 14 years of age in cars, vans and other goods vehicles wear seat belts ... “Section 15, Road Traffic Act 1988. “Except as provided by regulations, where a child under the age of fourteen years is in the front of a motor vehicle, a person must not without reasonable excuse drive the vehicle on a road unless the child is wearing a seat belt in conformity with regulations.”
Section 38, RTA 1988. “A failure on the part of a person to observe a provision of the Highway Code shall not of itself render that person liable to criminal proceedings of any kind but any such failure may in any proceedings ... be relied upon by any party to the proceedings as tending to establish or negative any liability which is in question in those proceedings.”
Sk00p said:
Would the fact it was a private access road have any bearing on the rules of the Highway Code?
Nope."It is important to note that references to 'road' therefore generally include footpaths, bridleways and cycle tracks, and many roadways and driveways on private land (including many car parks)."
Dr Interceptor said:
Sk00p said:
Would the fact it was a private access road have any bearing on the rules of the Highway Code?
Nope."It is important to note that references to 'road' therefore generally include footpaths, bridleways and cycle tracks, and many roadways and driveways on private land (including many car parks)."
It's still a generally useful rule, but since he's not being prosecuted for the seatbelt offences, it's a bit of an academic debate. It could easily be taken as a contributory factor towards the Death by Careless charge, though.
And let's face it, he REALLY doesn't want to be arguing that that bit of traffic law doesn't apply either...
TooMany2cvs said:
... It could easily be taken as a contributory factor towards the Death by Careless charge, though.
The prosecutor must prove that D’s driving was careless and that D’s careless driving was “a cause” of death. Not a substantial cause. Not the principal cause. Not even the main cause. But “a cause.” Anything more than minimal causation is sufficient.
agtlaw said:
Not a substantial cause. Not the principal cause. Not even the main cause. But “a cause.” Anything more than minimal causation is sufficient.
That's likely to be a slam-dunk 'guilty' then, just on the seatbelt? "Driving" presumably includes most decisions/actions taken (or not), while in charge of the vehicle?The seat belts law bit is interesting. I raised this earlier in the thread and the response was that it was a minor traffic issue, 3 points and a fine.
But that's punishment for being caught by the police not wearing a seatbelt. Its not for being in charge of a vehicle in which a young passenger dies.
But that's punishment for being caught by the police not wearing a seatbelt. Its not for being in charge of a vehicle in which a young passenger dies.
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff