13yr old killed in F50
Discussion
TTmonkey said:
All F50s are manual. If the car were to suddenly accelerate without you wanting it to you smash the clutch in and hit the brakes. It's not a magic car, it's just a powerful car. I've driven a car of similar power and a similar age/technology (500bhp Rally car) and it did very much as it was told. It only got scary when you mashed the throttle hard.
Which is what I think this guy did.
One minute the defendant says hes a qualified and experienced driver, used to driving super cars, the next he says some mechanical gremlin made the car launch massively and uncontrollable with massive acceleration whilst he is barely touching the gas peddle, and there's nothing he can do to stop it?
The investigators evidence will be the insightful information. His opinion is going to be not at fault problem with the car. Crown will be the car is fine and you were at fault. Which is what I think this guy did.
One minute the defendant says hes a qualified and experienced driver, used to driving super cars, the next he says some mechanical gremlin made the car launch massively and uncontrollable with massive acceleration whilst he is barely touching the gas peddle, and there's nothing he can do to stop it?
All about the information from the inspection of the car, and then the jury to understand mechanic jargon or believe it. Could be that Ferrari are pretty shoddy and it was the cars fault and they still find him guilty and he's going to Man Stor-age (prison)
fblm said:
What kind of fault could cause a manual car to accelerate uncontrollably? Wouldn't the throttle need to be open in the first place in order to get stuck open?
Any fault that causes a car to accelerate in a car that can go from point a to point b very quickly. If point b is close enough that you are already there in the time you can react I guess. fblm said:
What kind of fault could cause a manual car to accelerate uncontrollably? Wouldn't the throttle need to be open in the first place in order to get stuck open?
Was thinking the same. I know Ferrari's have had issues with throttles sticking (ala 355) but you'd need to be WOT for it to be stuck there.Anyway, an examination of the throttle components would reveal if it were likely to be sticking.
I don't really believe he was going to crawl at 10mph all the way down that long empty straight bit of road. Not much point in that. He must have given it a bit more than that, even without going too mad - for a bit of noise and fun etc... Surely...?
The witness evidence of the mother's partner said the car "roared off" from where they were!
The witness evidence of the mother's partner said the car "roared off" from where they were!
SJK said:
fblm said:
What kind of fault could cause a manual car to accelerate uncontrollably? Wouldn't the throttle need to be open in the first place in order to get stuck open?
Any fault that causes a car to accelerate in a car that can go from point a to point b very quickly. If point b is close enough that you are already there in the time you can react I guess. SJK said:
Any fault that causes a car to accelerate...
Like what? A quick google suggests one can buy an F50 throttle cable ($150 on ebay if anyone needs one!); I just can't fathom how an old school throttle linkage can cause uncontrollable acceleration, I assume they fail the other way and stall no? (Genuine questions by the way)Edited by anonymous-user on Thursday 22 February 21:06
agtlaw said:
Now I would bet my mortgage, and that of the whole of PH that i could drive down that road and back in an F50 without anyone dying.Now, would i make the same bet if I was asked to go down that road and "show a kid what the car could do?"
Well no, i wouldn't. And I would not do such a thing.
And I would be surprised if the mother asked him to do such a thing.
So I don't believe him. I am guessing he decided to show how great he was, and his ambition well and truly outstripped his ability.
fblm said:
Like what? A quick google suggests one can buy an F50 throttle cable ($150 on ebay if anyone needs one!); I just can't fathom how an old school throttle linkage can cause uncontrollable acceleration, I assume they fail the other way and stall no? (Genuine questions by the way)
I don't know the ins and outs of f50s but if something did cause the car to do as was said it's possible that you are at the collision before you have even realised what's happened I think. Edited by fblm on Thursday 22 February 21:06
fblm said:
What kind of fault could cause a manual car to accelerate uncontrollably? Wouldn't the throttle need to be open in the first place in order to get stuck open?
Depends on design of the car.MK2 golfs have a little spring that holds back acceleration. If that spring snaps it accelerates uncontrollably.
I found this out the scary way
hyphen said:
MK2 golfs have a little spring that holds back acceleration. If that spring snaps it accelerates uncontrollably.
I found this out the hard way
Not sure I believe that. There's return springs, but you've still got to push the pedal to the floor to open the throttles...I found this out the hard way
F50 isn't drive-by-wire throttle, surely?
SJK said:
...it's possible that you are at the collision before you have even realised what's happened I think.
Yes I can see that, I was asking if there is any way an engine can fail like that...hyphen said:
...
MK2 golfs have a little spring that holds back acceleration. If that spring snaps it accelerates uncontrollably.
I found this out the scary way
Question answered. Thanks. Strange design!MK2 golfs have a little spring that holds back acceleration. If that spring snaps it accelerates uncontrollably.
I found this out the scary way
fblm said:
What kind of fault could cause a manual car to accelerate uncontrollably? Wouldn't the throttle need to be open in the first place in order to get stuck open?
I have some small experience of this. When I had a TVR I applied a moderate amount of loud pedal in 3rd gear at low rpm. Then I found the throttle had stuck open at that position which made things worse as the revs climbed. There is an element of panic when you don't realize what's happening. At more than 1.0 leptons I had the sense of mind to hit the ignition kill switch which solved the problem, but oh how the people I'd overtaken must have laughed as I languished on the hard shoulder. The point is that when it happens it takes a second or two for you to realize what's going on and take remedial action, which in a fast-accelerating car can be a problem.hyphen said:
Depends on design of the car.
MK2 golfs have a little spring that holds back acceleration. If that spring snaps it accelerates uncontrollably.
I found this out the scary way
Is that related to the idle control valve problem of Audis (1984ish)? That would fail-unsafe and give significant revs when cold. Very bad for automatics, but just annoying in manuals (like my old GT5E coupe). ISTR that Watchdog in the late '80s got VAG on the hook for it. Audi fixed mine for free.MK2 golfs have a little spring that holds back acceleration. If that spring snaps it accelerates uncontrollably.
I found this out the scary way
I live pretty near, and have actually driven down the road where this happened. (There was a Fete down from the Derby pub)
Although a straight concrete road there are wooden 'pegs' a foot or so in, I guess to prevent cars parking to the side.
It got quite tight when I had to pass a car coming the other way. Not much room.
It looks to me like he hit one of these which lifted the car into a roll.
Although a straight concrete road there are wooden 'pegs' a foot or so in, I guess to prevent cars parking to the side.
It got quite tight when I had to pass a car coming the other way. Not much room.
It looks to me like he hit one of these which lifted the car into a roll.
fblm said:
SJK said:
Any fault that causes a car to accelerate...
Like what? A quick google suggests one can buy an F50 throttle cable ($150 on ebay if anyone needs one!); I just can't fathom how an old school throttle linkage can cause uncontrollable acceleration, I assume they fail the other way and stall no? (Genuine questions by the way)Edited by fblm on Thursday 22 February 21:06
Does anyone know how far it is from the storage unit where he unloaded the car, to the point where it crashed?
Also, this road he had no intention of driving more than a couple of miles per hour down go..... does he have any reason for driving down it, other than to give the kid an experience thrill....? I.e., does he have any reason for going down there to do with his job? I think this is relevant. If he had no intention of giving it some beans, then he's going somewhere that he needs to in the crash. If he needs to move the car from a yard to another building along the road, I can believe that he's doing his job properly. If however there is no other reason for going down the road, then there is no scope for believing him imo.
You simply don't give a 13 year old the experience of a lifetime by pootling. You just don't.
Also, this road he had no intention of driving more than a couple of miles per hour down go..... does he have any reason for driving down it, other than to give the kid an experience thrill....? I.e., does he have any reason for going down there to do with his job? I think this is relevant. If he had no intention of giving it some beans, then he's going somewhere that he needs to in the crash. If he needs to move the car from a yard to another building along the road, I can believe that he's doing his job properly. If however there is no other reason for going down the road, then there is no scope for believing him imo.
You simply don't give a 13 year old the experience of a lifetime by pootling. You just don't.
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