13yr old killed in F50
Discussion
fblm said:
NDA said:
garyhun said:
I’ve had a few powerful boats on the south cost and, just like putting on my seatbelt in the car, I never once failed to attach the kill cord to either my wrist or ankle.
It’s not a forgetting thing in my experience, more a not bothering thing (also seen with life jackets) unfortunately.
Fortunately I was wearing a jacket - otherwise I wouldn't be here. But I did forget to wear the kill cord. It can happen.It’s not a forgetting thing in my experience, more a not bothering thing (also seen with life jackets) unfortunately.
I had a Yamaha 150 on an 8m rib that could accelerate wildly and turn very violently. It could do around 50 knots but even at much lower speeds you could turn the boat quickly and get it to dig in and jump.
That said, 50 knots hitting a wave is also a candidate for getting thrown out.
You really cannot take chances out at sea!
fblm said:
NDA said:
garyhun said:
I’ve had a few powerful boats on the south cost and, just like putting on my seatbelt in the car, I never once failed to attach the kill cord to either my wrist or ankle.
It’s not a forgetting thing in my experience, more a not bothering thing (also seen with life jackets) unfortunately.
Fortunately I was wearing a jacket - otherwise I wouldn't be here. But I did forget to wear the kill cord. It can happen.It’s not a forgetting thing in my experience, more a not bothering thing (also seen with life jackets) unfortunately.
NDA said:
fblm said:
NDA said:
garyhun said:
I’ve had a few powerful boats on the south cost and, just like putting on my seatbelt in the car, I never once failed to attach the kill cord to either my wrist or ankle.
It’s not a forgetting thing in my experience, more a not bothering thing (also seen with life jackets) unfortunately.
Fortunately I was wearing a jacket - otherwise I wouldn't be here. But I did forget to wear the kill cord. It can happen.It’s not a forgetting thing in my experience, more a not bothering thing (also seen with life jackets) unfortunately.
NDA said:
I was doing around 50 knots. It wasn't pretty. You should always wear a life jacket - honestly.... I would have been killed without one. And yes, I should have had the kill cord on too - the one time I didn't, was the one time I got injured.
Did you forget to wear the kill cord or was it a case of you couldn't be bothered with it?Penelope would you please just p
s off and stop trying to catch people out, or whatever you are doing.. We all have brains, we all know what a seatbelt is and why it is there. It is the duty of the person in control of the car (or boat, or whatever) to make sure that passengers are safe, as well as themselves, so if you aren’t capable of that duty then please kindly get rid of your car or your trycicle (whatever you ride at your apparent age) and go play in a nice soft sandpit or something.
s off and stop trying to catch people out, or whatever you are doing.. We all have brains, we all know what a seatbelt is and why it is there. It is the duty of the person in control of the car (or boat, or whatever) to make sure that passengers are safe, as well as themselves, so if you aren’t capable of that duty then please kindly get rid of your car or your trycicle (whatever you ride at your apparent age) and go play in a nice soft sandpit or something.BBenzzz said:
Penelope would you please just ps off and stop trying to catch people out, or whatever you are doing.. We all have brains, we all know what a seatbelt is and why it is there. It is the duty of the person in control of the car (or boat, or whatever) to make sure that passengers are safe, as well as themselves, so if you aren’t capable of that duty then please kindly get rid of your car or your trycicle (whatever you ride at your apparent age) and go play in a nice soft sandpit or something.
s off and stop trying to catch people out, or whatever you are doing.. We all have brains, we all know what a seatbelt is and why it is there. It is the duty of the person in control of the car (or boat, or whatever) to make sure that passengers are safe, as well as themselves, so if you aren’t capable of that duty then please kindly get rid of your car or your trycicle (whatever you ride at your apparent age) and go play in a nice soft sandpit or something.
Penelope Stopit said:
NDA said:
I was doing around 50 knots. It wasn't pretty. You should always wear a life jacket - honestly.... I would have been killed without one. And yes, I should have had the kill cord on too - the one time I didn't, was the one time I got injured.
Did you forget to wear the kill cord or was it a case of you couldn't be bothered with it?People do forget things - it's why the word exists. I have occasionally forgotten to put my seatbelt on immediately in a car too.... it happens.
NDA said:
I was doing around 50 knots. It wasn't pretty. You should always wear a life jacket - honestly.... I would have been killed without one. And yes, I should have had the kill cord on too - the one time I didn't, was the one time I got injured.
Well I picked my daughter up from sailing lessons yesterday... first excuse to use the boat after your post. 48kt on the GPS and we're all jacketed up and kill cord on for the first time ever! Thanks for the advice 
NDA said:
Penelope Stopit said:
NDA said:
I was doing around 50 knots. It wasn't pretty. You should always wear a life jacket - honestly.... I would have been killed without one. And yes, I should have had the kill cord on too - the one time I didn't, was the one time I got injured.
Did you forget to wear the kill cord or was it a case of you couldn't be bothered with it?People do forget things - it's why the word exists. I have occasionally forgotten to put my seatbelt on immediately in a car too.... it happens.
You survived and that is the main thing, enjoy life, may luck stay on your side
Penelope Stopit said:
NDA said:
Penelope Stopit said:
NDA said:
I was doing around 50 knots. It wasn't pretty. You should always wear a life jacket - honestly.... I would have been killed without one. And yes, I should have had the kill cord on too - the one time I didn't, was the one time I got injured.
Did you forget to wear the kill cord or was it a case of you couldn't be bothered with it?People do forget things - it's why the word exists. I have occasionally forgotten to put my seatbelt on immediately in a car too.... it happens.
You survived and that is the main thing, enjoy life, may luck stay on your side
You seem to be of the opinion that none of us are accountable for our actions and it's all pre-ordained.
GT119 said:
Penelope Stopit said:
NDA said:
Penelope Stopit said:
NDA said:
I was doing around 50 knots. It wasn't pretty. You should always wear a life jacket - honestly.... I would have been killed without one. And yes, I should have had the kill cord on too - the one time I didn't, was the one time I got injured.
Did you forget to wear the kill cord or was it a case of you couldn't be bothered with it?People do forget things - it's why the word exists. I have occasionally forgotten to put my seatbelt on immediately in a car too.... it happens.
You survived and that is the main thing, enjoy life, may luck stay on your side
You seem to be of the opinion that none of us are accountable for our actions and it's all pre-ordained.
If the boy and his Mum had delivered the battery 10 minutes earlier, the F50 may have not been there, and there wouldn't have been an incident. On another day, the driver or mother may have declined the ride, and just gone with the photo. In another scenario the driver may have intended to take the car out onto the main road, so seatbelts would have been worn.
It's just a seriously bad case of wrong place, wrong time... And a series of tragic decisions that led to a fatality.
When I was very little, 8/9 years old, I was in a bad accident with Dad who was driving his Renault Alpine GTA. We were on our way home, and he was having a bit of fun with a friend of his who was driving a 4x4 Cavalier SRI. Dad lost the GTA coming off a roundabout, spun through 180, hit the kerb side on, and rolled into a ditch, finishing my side up, his side down.
We were both fine, not even a scratch, but when you stand back and look at the scene, we rolled directly between two lamp posts. 6ft or 8ft either way, and we may not have been so lucky.
That's what it comes down to, we were lucky. Unfortunately on that day in that F50, their luck ran out
fblm said:
NDA said:
I was doing around 50 knots. It wasn't pretty. You should always wear a life jacket - honestly.... I would have been killed without one. And yes, I should have had the kill cord on too - the one time I didn't, was the one time I got injured.
Well I picked my daughter up from sailing lessons yesterday... first excuse to use the boat after your post. 48kt on the GPS and we're all jacketed up and kill cord on for the first time ever! Thanks for the advice 
I was a fool for forgetting the kill cord and there's no question I would have drowned without my jacket. My friend Nick and his daughter were both killed by their boat coming around and hitting them.... a kill cord would have saved them. So I am really so delighted that you remembered.
Dr Interceptor said:
It's a tragedy, and every tragedy is the result of a series of events.
If the boy and his Mum had delivered the battery 10 minutes earlier, the F50 may have not been there, and there wouldn't have been an incident. On another day, the driver or mother may have declined the ride, and just gone with the photo. In another scenario the driver may have intended to take the car out onto the main road, so seatbelts would have been worn.
It's just a seriously bad case of wrong place, wrong time... And a series of tragic decisions that led to a fatality.
When I was very little, 8/9 years old, I was in a bad accident with Dad who was driving his Renault Alpine GTA. We were on our way home, and he was having a bit of fun with a friend of his who was driving a 4x4 Cavalier SRI. Dad lost the GTA coming off a roundabout, spun through 180, hit the kerb side on, and rolled into a ditch, finishing my side up, his side down.
We were both fine, not even a scratch, but when you stand back and look at the scene, we rolled directly between two lamp posts. 6ft or 8ft either way, and we may not have been so lucky.
That's what it comes down to, we were lucky. Unfortunately on that day in that F50, their luck ran out
Have to say I agree, When I was younger I had an accident where whilst driving at low speed round a parked car on some army land a temporary road closure barrier which was essentially a pole on a hinge was hanging out into the road. If the boy and his Mum had delivered the battery 10 minutes earlier, the F50 may have not been there, and there wouldn't have been an incident. On another day, the driver or mother may have declined the ride, and just gone with the photo. In another scenario the driver may have intended to take the car out onto the main road, so seatbelts would have been worn.
It's just a seriously bad case of wrong place, wrong time... And a series of tragic decisions that led to a fatality.
When I was very little, 8/9 years old, I was in a bad accident with Dad who was driving his Renault Alpine GTA. We were on our way home, and he was having a bit of fun with a friend of his who was driving a 4x4 Cavalier SRI. Dad lost the GTA coming off a roundabout, spun through 180, hit the kerb side on, and rolled into a ditch, finishing my side up, his side down.
We were both fine, not even a scratch, but when you stand back and look at the scene, we rolled directly between two lamp posts. 6ft or 8ft either way, and we may not have been so lucky.
That's what it comes down to, we were lucky. Unfortunately on that day in that F50, their luck ran out
A pole pointing at you is the size of a fag packet, add in to the factor it was dark, I had been driving less than a year and was paying attention to the parked car and the people standing by it... Well... one minute i was doing 20mph the next I am stationary covered in glass. The barrier had clipped the wing forcing it up across the bonnet through the windscreen and out the passenger window. The car was skewered like a kebab.
I'm just fortunate that my mate had dropped his spiff on the floor and leant down to pick it up. If he hadn't the barrier would of most likely gone through his head.
Freak accidents do happen and had the worst happened I'm sure the public would be calling for my blood.
Careless driving charge is a new charge thought, And it in my opinion serves to enable prosecutions for accidents where dangerous driving can't. There are no such thing as accidents in the eyes of the police now.. they are called incidents.
Does everyone feel comfortable with the fact there are no accidents anymore ? Similarly surely insurance will no longer be needed as an accident is going to be criminal anyway... you probably get the point i an making the slippery slope to prosecution for every incident is closer as it's arguable that no accident no matter how big nor small is careless
NDA said:
I am so genuinely thrilled to read that.
I was a fool for forgetting the kill cord and there's no question I would have drowned without my jacket. My friend Nick and his daughter were both killed by their boat coming around and hitting them.... a kill cord would have saved them. So I am really so delighted that you remembered.
Don't take this the wrong way, genuine question. Do you need a licence for your boating activities and if so, does an incident like you had get reported. If so, can they, did they, remove your licence, or fine you etc, for the incident / error? I was a fool for forgetting the kill cord and there's no question I would have drowned without my jacket. My friend Nick and his daughter were both killed by their boat coming around and hitting them.... a kill cord would have saved them. So I am really so delighted that you remembered.
It seems to me that whether a boat circles around and hits the driver / passenger, or speeds off at 48 knots into the wide blue yonder, it's a fairly dangerous situation, and one that should not neccessarily just be one of them brown sppeedo moments, get boat back and sale / drive home.
May have missed it, but where did your boat end up? How did it get recovered? Was someone still onboard?
SJK said:
Dr Interceptor said:
It's a tragedy, and every tragedy is the result of a series of events.
If the boy and his Mum had delivered the battery 10 minutes earlier, the F50 may have not been there, and there wouldn't have been an incident. On another day, the driver or mother may have declined the ride, and just gone with the photo. In another scenario the driver may have intended to take the car out onto the main road, so seatbelts would have been worn.
It's just a seriously bad case of wrong place, wrong time... And a series of tragic decisions that led to a fatality.
When I was very little, 8/9 years old, I was in a bad accident with Dad who was driving his Renault Alpine GTA. We were on our way home, and he was having a bit of fun with a friend of his who was driving a 4x4 Cavalier SRI. Dad lost the GTA coming off a roundabout, spun through 180, hit the kerb side on, and rolled into a ditch, finishing my side up, his side down.
We were both fine, not even a scratch, but when you stand back and look at the scene, we rolled directly between two lamp posts. 6ft or 8ft either way, and we may not have been so lucky.
That's what it comes down to, we were lucky. Unfortunately on that day in that F50, their luck ran out
Have to say I agree, When I was younger I had an accident where whilst driving at low speed round a parked car on some army land a temporary road closure barrier which was essentially a pole on a hinge was hanging out into the road. If the boy and his Mum had delivered the battery 10 minutes earlier, the F50 may have not been there, and there wouldn't have been an incident. On another day, the driver or mother may have declined the ride, and just gone with the photo. In another scenario the driver may have intended to take the car out onto the main road, so seatbelts would have been worn.
It's just a seriously bad case of wrong place, wrong time... And a series of tragic decisions that led to a fatality.
When I was very little, 8/9 years old, I was in a bad accident with Dad who was driving his Renault Alpine GTA. We were on our way home, and he was having a bit of fun with a friend of his who was driving a 4x4 Cavalier SRI. Dad lost the GTA coming off a roundabout, spun through 180, hit the kerb side on, and rolled into a ditch, finishing my side up, his side down.
We were both fine, not even a scratch, but when you stand back and look at the scene, we rolled directly between two lamp posts. 6ft or 8ft either way, and we may not have been so lucky.
That's what it comes down to, we were lucky. Unfortunately on that day in that F50, their luck ran out
A pole pointing at you is the size of a fag packet, add in to the factor it was dark, I had been driving less than a year and was paying attention to the parked car and the people standing by it... Well... one minute i was doing 20mph the next I am stationary covered in glass. The barrier had clipped the wing forcing it up across the bonnet through the windscreen and out the passenger window. The car was skewered like a kebab.
I'm just fortunate that my mate had dropped his spiff on the floor and leant down to pick it up. If he hadn't the barrier would of most likely gone through his head.
Freak accidents do happen and had the worst happened I'm sure the public would be calling for my blood.
Careless driving charge is a new charge thought, And it in my opinion serves to enable prosecutions for accidents where dangerous driving can't. There are no such thing as accidents in the eyes of the police now.. they are called incidents.
Does everyone feel comfortable with the fact there are no accidents anymore ? Similarly surely insurance will no longer be needed as an accident is going to be criminal anyway... you probably get the point i an making the slippery slope to prosecution for every incident is closer as it's arguable that no accident no matter how big nor small is careless
The driver of the F50 was intelligent enough and experienced enough to know that what he was doing was not without some risk.
He therefore had enough knowledge and information to take 'reasonable' precautions to mitigate the risk.
Before he set off he was aware that reasonable precautions in this instance would be to wear seat belts, avoid excessive use of the throttle, especially in potentially low grip conditions, i.e. puddles, grass verges, etc.
I'm struggling with his explanation of why the car shot off, in all probability it was too much right foot, but I have no proof either way.
So, was it an accident?
In the sense that he didn't intend for it to happen, then yes.
Is he blameless for the outcome, then no.
His failure to take reasonable risk mitigation was directly responsible for the outcome.
GT119 said:
I think its about risk and mitigation.
The driver of the F50 was intelligent enough and experienced enough to know that what he was doing was not without some risk.
He therefore had enough knowledge and information to take 'reasonable' precautions to mitigate the risk.
Before he set off he was aware that reasonable precautions in this instance would be to wear seat belts, avoid excessive use of the throttle, especially in potentially low grip conditions, i.e. puddles, grass verges, etc.
I'm struggling with his explanation of why the car shot off, in all probability it was too much right foot, but I have no proof either way.
So, was it an accident?
In the sense that he didn't intend for it to happen, then yes.
Is he blameless for the outcome, then no.
His failure to take reasonable risk mitigation was directly responsible for the outcome.
The seatbelt really is the pivotal point in so many ways. Potentially could of saved the boys life and as for the blame / carelessness would of perhaps changed the balance of the case.The driver of the F50 was intelligent enough and experienced enough to know that what he was doing was not without some risk.
He therefore had enough knowledge and information to take 'reasonable' precautions to mitigate the risk.
Before he set off he was aware that reasonable precautions in this instance would be to wear seat belts, avoid excessive use of the throttle, especially in potentially low grip conditions, i.e. puddles, grass verges, etc.
I'm struggling with his explanation of why the car shot off, in all probability it was too much right foot, but I have no proof either way.
So, was it an accident?
In the sense that he didn't intend for it to happen, then yes.
Is he blameless for the outcome, then no.
His failure to take reasonable risk mitigation was directly responsible for the outcome.
Have to agree with another poster that I personally feel odd without it on. And I never drive without my passengers wearing one.. mainly as I can't be bothered to get a stop from officer dibble.
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