Politics in France

[wc98]

DAVEVO9 said:

Would be fantastic if she wins.

The eu's demise would be fast tracked

as much as i think the eu as an institution needs to either change massively or cease to exist, i don't think le pen being elected would be a good thing for france ,the uk, or the rest of europe.

[williamp]

Randy Winkman said:

Does Le Pen really want the pension age cut to 60? That's nuts and completely at odds with the rest of the world.

I read somewhere the other day that she is actually left wing, but wants border controls. The more I read, the more I understand that.

[spaximus]

grumbledoak said:

spaximus said:

Seems strange that there has been a press embargo in France on this as the authorities, you know those who want to keep Le Pen out at any cost, say it might affect the election.

Seems a good reason for them to be out in the open if he is a lying tax cheat about to be president.

It's not strange. It is an attempt to rig the election. That's not without precedent either.

So if that is the reason then why was it not made public before when it could be reported upon? If Russia were behind it do you not think they might have got that bit right?

There is nothing in the world that Russia isn't getting the blame for and we trust our media so well? And remember we went to war on a lie from our own prime minister when he said they had factual evidence there were weapons of mass destruction.

We have heard a lot about claims Russia rigged the US election but so far there has been no actual evidence produced, just briefings and rumours. But Obama did try to affect the outcome of our referendum and the EU are trying to undermine Theresa May, how is that any different?

The fact that she has got so far and Macron started a new party and still beat the other established figures, shows that the French do not trust the traditional parties anymore. They have a history of wanting to look after their own people and I would not be surprised if in the smaller cities she does well but in the areas like Paris she will not.

She will not win but France will change after this.

[Guybrush]

williamp said:

Randy Winkman said:

Does Le Pen really want the pension age cut to 60? That's nuts and completely at odds with the rest of the world.

I read somewhere the other day that she is actually left wing, but wants border controls. The more I read, the more I understand that.

There's a leftie streak in much of French politics; Macron is really quite far left but is just a quick parachute in con job to fool the French into thinking there is a so called safe middle ground alternative to Le Pen. I'm surprised so many French have been fooled by this.

[Pesty]

williamp said:

I read somewhere the other day that she is actually left wing, but wants border controls. The more I read, the more I understand that.

Exactly doesn't matter about your policies she's talked about immigration that makes her a far right nut job in the MSM

[anonymous-user]

DAVEVO9 said:

Would be fantastic if she wins.

The eu's demise would be fast tracked

Why is that fantastic, o wise one

[grumbledoak]

spaximus said:

So if that is the reason then why was it not made public before when it could be reported upon? If Russia were behind it do you not think they might have got that bit right?

I meant the MSM embargo now was an attempt to rig the election against Le Pen.

This leak was done as quickly as it could be. If someone wanted to scupper Macron they would not have sat on it until now.

[Globs]

Jimboka said:

DAVEVO9 said:

Would be fantastic if she wins.

The EU's demise would be fast tracked

Why is that fantastic, o wise one

The fantasic-ness depends if you are establishment or independent I suspect:
Macron is the Soros approved Rothschild banker chosen for his loyalty and clean cut looks to represent the elite.
Le Pen is the independent, anti globalist, anti war candidate.

So if you like the way the wars, military buildups, the EU and the world is run you'll get more of the same with Macron, with Le Pen you'll get some major improvements like Trump's first few days when he scrapped the TTP.

Until she's stopped of course, I'm still not sure if Trump's brain was removed or it was always the plan to put Kushner in charge, but I can't see Pen being allowed to rescue France/Europe even if she does win; so perhaps the result doesn't matter much in the long term.

Regardless I think the EU is finished, it's a common misconception in the UK (especially by the anti-liberal un-democratic lib-dems) that people in Europe like the EU, many hate it far more than we ever did. The Euro has done it's job of wealth transfer from the people to the banking class but at great cost to the EU political project. Hagal/Nuland's Ukraine coup and subsequent Russian sanctions hasn't helped either as a number of european countries are now poorer as a result, but the UK elite has always hated Russia so the sanctions wasn't noticed so much by us.

[Countdown]

I think that's the first time I've seen a "far-right" candidate described as "anti-war".

[768]

I think it's the first time I've seen an "anti-war" candidate described as "far-right".

[Globs]

Countdown said:

I think that's the first time I've seen a "far-right" candidate described as "anti-war".

Have you ever heard the media use the term 'far left'?
Left and right are 1970s concepts and have no place today - they are used to distract from the true divide between the elite and the rest of us.

Most people forget the nazi party was National Socialist - i.e left wing. Additionally they forget that the people who stopped the nazis were the far-left communists to the east; arguably the real targets of WWII.

Also remember that Clinton was the warmonger in Libya and Obama was prepping for war with Russia, possibly with pre-emptive strikes from the missile sites in Romania etc - and they are considered 'left wing'.

The real fight is as it's always been, between classes, how many americans with kids, drug problems, mortgages to pay do you think really decided NK needed to be threatened? How many french people buying their croissants woke up that morning thinking that the Ukraine needed to join the EU and Russia should be put in it's place? All war comes from the top, it never benefits the lower classes which is why they arguably stopped WWI:
https://www.channel4.com/news/by/paul-mason/blogs/...

Le Pen is really a candidate for the lower classes (so technically left wing ) and making friends with Russia again and not spending our resources on the elite's wars in the middle east will benefit the average frenchman a great deal.

[JagLover]

williamp said:

I read somewhere the other day that she is actually left wing, but wants border controls. The more I read, the more I understand that.

We keep hearing again and again that Le Pen is far right, but the term has lost its impact because almost every vaguely right wing party that advocates something popular (hence populist) is called far right.

Far right used to mean jackboots and skinned head racists. Now those called it, may just be euro-sceptic, traditional christian right, or just want tighter immigration controls.

The best way of describing Le Pens policies is traditional left wing economic policies with an end to immigration.

There are many good reasons to vote against Le Pen, but her being some wannabe Mussolini doesn't seem to be one of them.

[JagLover]

Guybrush said:

There's a leftie streak in much of French politics; Macron is really quite far left but is just a quick parachute in con job to fool the French into thinking there is a so called safe middle ground alternative to Le Pen. I'm surprised so many French have been fooled by this.

The anti-establishment, establishment candidate. Rather amusing really and it wouldn't surprise me if in five years time he will have allot more free time to spend with his granny porn.

[rscott]

loafer123 said:

spaximus said:

Seems strange that there has been a press embargo in France on this as the authorities, you know those who want to keep Le Pen out at any cost, say it might affect the election.

Seems a good reason for them to be out in the open if he is a lying tax cheat about to be president.

To be fair, there is a complete press embargo on politics to 2 days prior to the election in France, so it isn't specifically for this leak.

It seems very bizarre that the leak came out just before the embargo and in too little time before the election to be properly reviewed. It probably means there is nothing material in there.

PS I do still think that Macron is a Bond villain, though.

It's a very well timed leak - the public will be discussing it on social media (and down the pub.. ) but the MAN can't say anything about to either confirm or deny the content.

[Wobbegong]

I don't think I'd like to bet either way on the result. Both work colleagues and friends who are able to vote in the election seem apathetic as to the result. Very surprising considering that only a few years ago it'd have been "anyone but Le Pen".

Latest social media ranting from my extreme angry lefty friend in France is "not voting,whoever wins it'll be a st 5 years for France".

[Murph7355]

Wobbegong said:

I don't think I'd like to bet either way on the result. Both work colleagues and friends who are able to vote in the election seem apathetic as to the result. Very surprising considering that only a few years ago it'd have been "anyone but Le Pen".

Latest social media ranting from my extreme angry lefty friend in France is "not voting,whoever wins it'll be a st 5 years for France".

If Macron doesn't get it, it will be a bigger shock then Brexit and Trump combined.

More interesting will be the second round turnout relative to past elections, and also Le Pen's share of the vote relative to them.

Politics in France will change. It's just a matter of when. If Macron is as bright as many say he is, he'll make a start on that change when he gets in. Seismic shifts will only happen if they don't incrementally change. If people like Macron cannot influence the EU to adapt, nobody can.

[768]

Murph7355 said:

Politics in France will change. It's just a matter of when. If Macron is as bright as many say he is, he'll make a start on that change when he gets in. Seismic shifts will only happen if they don't incrementally change. If people like Macron cannot influence the EU to adapt, nobody can.

I doubt he wants to influence the EU to change, he seems a fully paid up member. I've heard some muse that Macron may be the faster route to the end of the EU.

[jjlynn27]

spaximus said:

So if that is the reason then why was it not made public before when it could be reported upon? If Russia were behind it do you not think they might have got that bit right?


There is nothing in the world that Russia isn't getting the blame for and we trust our media so well? And remember we went to war on a lie from our own prime minister when he said they had factual evidence there were weapons of mass destruction.

We have heard a lot about claims Russia rigged the US election but so far there has been no actual evidence produced, just briefings and rumours. But Obama did try to affect the outcome of our referendum and the EU are trying to undermine Theresa May, how is that any different?

Or it's leaked now so that Macron can't issue any statement, and there is no time to refute with evidence? 'EU trying to undermine Theresa May' - really? Anything bar express headline to show that attempt at undermining?

The idiotic opinions presented as facts on this (and many other NP&E) threads are hilarious.

[amusingduck]

jjlynn27 said:

spaximus said:

So if that is the reason then why was it not made public before when it could be reported upon? If Russia were behind it do you not think they might have got that bit right?


There is nothing in the world that Russia isn't getting the blame for and we trust our media so well? And remember we went to war on a lie from our own prime minister when he said they had factual evidence there were weapons of mass destruction.

We have heard a lot about claims Russia rigged the US election but so far there has been no actual evidence produced, just briefings and rumours. But Obama did try to affect the outcome of our referendum and the EU are trying to undermine Theresa May, how is that any different?

Or it's leaked now so that Macron can't issue any statement, and there is no time to refute with evidence? 'EU trying to undermine Theresa May' - really? Anything bar express headline to show that attempt at undermining?

The idiotic opinions presented as facts on this (and many other NP&E) threads are hilarious.

How is the timing of the leaks worse for Macron? He's hardly going to confirm that they're legit, is he!

If they were leaked weeks ago, there would have been plenty more time to verify their authenticity.Wikileaks have yet to find any fake documents, AIUI.

Seriously, if you're attempting to rig an election, the best strategy is a last-minute hail mary of faked documents? Come on..

[jjlynn27]

amusingduck said:

How is the timing of the leaks worse for Macron? He's hardly going to confirm that they're legit, is he!

If they were leaked weeks ago, there would have been plenty more time to verify their authenticity.Wikileaks have yet to find any fake documents, AIUI.

Seriously, if you're attempting to rig an election, the best strategy is a last-minute hail mary of faked documents? Come on..

Given it's you, let's try baby steps. Does leak helps Macron or Le Pen?