Jeremy Corbyn Vol. 2
Discussion
dimots said:
Over simplified here, but food for thought.
I'm not denying it is easier to succeed if your parents are better off. I'm saying you can succeed whether your parents are rich or not. It takes a brain and very hard work. Equally those who have it handed to them on a plate don't always seize the opportunity, precisely because it is handed to them - they simply don't understand the value of what they are being given and squander it. I have lost count of the number of Trustafarian-types that I know of who simply flunk at life despite every possible advantage of wealth, privilege and education. They will never be on the breadline but they don't contribute.
Also, as you say, that cartoon is a ridiculous simplification. Hard working poor parents usually have high expectations of their children. Or if they don't they are idiots, trapped by their lack of imagination to understand the potential opportunities that are out there ("I work down the pit and you should too"). Even if they don't have high expectations, then their children can have those on their own. Drive doesn't come from outside, it comes from within.
Christ, if parental expectations and assistance drove the success of offspring mine would be CEOs of multinationals.
The message that the system is skewed to benefit only the elite is simply b
ks. AstonZagato said:
The message that the system is skewed to benefit only the elite is simply bks.
If you hear or say something often enough, you tend to believe it.ks.Being regularly told you're downtrodden and have no chance of success, you will eventually behave like it and achieve it.
People like Corbyn revel in telling people they have no hope without help and that the only route to salvation is to bring those people who have achieved, down to their level.
You will never stop yourself from drowning by pulling those swimming on the surface down onto you.
djc206 said:
Donkey Of The Damned said:
Quite. Those at the bottom are the hard workers while those at the top rake in the benefits.
Someone should tell the cleaners at work. They get paid to clean for 35hrs/wk but probably manage a third of that, the rest being gossip and whinging. Our CEO however works significantly more than his contracted hours and always seems to be on the go. I'm happy in the middle just actually working my hours.It's very difficult to stay at the bottom if you actually graft you know.
Merely working extra hours wont do you much apart from your bosses taking advantage of your free labour and turns you into a right chump. I hope you're not a careers advisor.
janesmith1950 said:
If you hear or say something often enough, you tend to believe it.
Being regularly told you're downtrodden and have no chance of success, you will eventually behave like it and achieve it.
People like Corbyn revel in telling people they have no hope without help and that the only route to salvation is to bring those people who have achieved, down to their level.
You will never stop yourself from drowning by pulling those swimming on the surface down onto you.
It's becoming more of a problem. People seem to have lost the optimistic outlook and that they can do well in life.Being regularly told you're downtrodden and have no chance of success, you will eventually behave like it and achieve it.
People like Corbyn revel in telling people they have no hope without help and that the only route to salvation is to bring those people who have achieved, down to their level.
You will never stop yourself from drowning by pulling those swimming on the surface down onto you.
It feels like the same thing that's happening with the NHS and other public services. If you keep repeating they are underfunded and in crisis, you demoralise the staff. That, coupled with the fact that there are already some useless people employed in that sector, means you end up with a workforce happy to use that narrative to justify why things aren't working out. As if it's impossible for them to succeed or do well because everything is against them when perhaps it isn't.
I think some people step up and put the effort in, but some just take it lying down and do nothing.
As you pointed out, this seems to be exactly what Corbyn and his lot are relying on and it seems mostly to be those people who don't want to take responsibility for their shortcomings and would instead rather blame the "system".
The more him/Mcdonell/Momentum and all the hard left media keep it up, the more unrest and trouble it will cause with those marches and so on.
And if nothing is done to sort the media out, then it will continue as the mouldable minds continue to be taken in by it.
Slagathore said:
janesmith1950 said:
If you hear or say something often enough, you tend to believe it.
Being regularly told you're downtrodden and have no chance of success, you will eventually behave like it and achieve it.
People like Corbyn revel in telling people they have no hope without help and that the only route to salvation is to bring those people who have achieved, down to their level.
You will never stop yourself from drowning by pulling those swimming on the surface down onto you.
It's becoming more of a problem. People seem to have lost the optimistic outlook and that they can do well in life.Being regularly told you're downtrodden and have no chance of success, you will eventually behave like it and achieve it.
People like Corbyn revel in telling people they have no hope without help and that the only route to salvation is to bring those people who have achieved, down to their level.
You will never stop yourself from drowning by pulling those swimming on the surface down onto you.
It feels like the same thing that's happening with the NHS and other public services. If you keep repeating they are underfunded and in crisis, you demoralise the staff. That, coupled with the fact that there are already some useless people employed in that sector, means you end up with a workforce happy to use that narrative to justify why things aren't working out. As if it's impossible for them to succeed or do well because everything is against them when perhaps it isn't.
I think some people step up and put the effort in, but some just take it lying down and do nothing.
As you pointed out, this seems to be exactly what Corbyn and his lot are relying on and it seems mostly to be those people who don't want to take responsibility for their shortcomings and would instead rather blame the "system".
The more him/Mcdonell/Momentum and all the hard left media keep it up, the more unrest and trouble it will cause with those marches and so on.
And if nothing is done to sort the media out, then it will continue as the mouldable minds continue to be taken in by it.
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/jun/20/le...
Donkey Of The Damned said:
The NHS is underfunded and is only going to get worse as confirmed by these leaks today.
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/jun/20/le...
Regurgitated Guardian spin is not fact (as to the effects). As to a new system that demands "good management" of the budgets, about time too.https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/jun/20/le...
MONEY TREE
I've said this before.........put party politics aside and put Anne Widecombe in charge of the NHS....she may do a bit of hardtalking, bang some heads,upset a few (probably more than a few) but we may end up somewhere nearer to the healthcare we need, deserve and can afford.
http://www.express.co.uk/comment/columnists/ann-wi...
http://www.express.co.uk/comment/columnists/ann-wi...
Donkey Of The Damned said:
The NHS is underfunded and is only going to get worse as confirmed by these leaks today.
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/jun/20/le...
And yet according to the IFS, Labour were not planning to spend any more than the Tories on the NHS, so your point is?https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/jun/20/le...
Slagathore said:
It's becoming more of a problem. People seem to have lost the optimistic outlook and that they can do well in life
As you pointed out, this seems to be exactly what Corbyn and his lot are relying on and it seems mostly to be those people who don't want to take responsibility for their shortcomings and would instead rather blame the "system
Yep, spot on, the 'don't want to take responsibility but blame the system' attitude started happening big time during the Blair Years. During his tenure in power this country took a turn for the worse which looks like it's never going to recover.As you pointed out, this seems to be exactly what Corbyn and his lot are relying on and it seems mostly to be those people who don't want to take responsibility for their shortcomings and would instead rather blame the "system
Donkey Of The Damned said:
djc206 said:
Donkey Of The Damned said:
Quite. Those at the bottom are the hard workers while those at the top rake in the benefits.
Someone should tell the cleaners at work. They get paid to clean for 35hrs/wk but probably manage a third of that, the rest being gossip and whinging. Our CEO however works significantly more than his contracted hours and always seems to be on the go. I'm happy in the middle just actually working my hours.It's very difficult to stay at the bottom if you actually graft you know.
Merely working extra hours wont do you much apart from your bosses taking advantage of your free labour and turns you into a right chump. I hope you're not a careers advisor.
I have many friends who have built themselves up into successful businesses from nothing, including at least 1 who had spent time inside. They all share a characteristic of hard work, a couple are in trades/building, they do weird stuff like being clear on what they will do and then actually doing it - working full days to get projects completed to a high level of quality and on time. Not a surprise that they charge a lot and are always busy.
My mum grew up in a house that had no heating apart from 1 coal fire that her mum had to clean and light everyday, no bathroom, and 1 outside toilet. Her dad had come back from the war a different and difficult man, she had to leave school at 15 to earn money, however qualified as a nurse and built a successful career.
My dad was the first in his family to go to university and joined a big multinational (the only non-Oxbridge hire), it meant he had to leave the country almost immediately to a job overseas for the best part of a decade though. He built a successful career.
I am of course a lazy wastrel...;)
Donkey Of The Damned said:
Hard work does not always get you to the top. Ruthlessness, psychopathy and a large dose of luck often does though.
Merely working extra hours wont do you much apart from your bosses taking advantage of your free labour and turns you into a right chump. I hope you're not a careers advisor.
I've added an extra word to your first sentence. Merely working extra hours wont do you much apart from your bosses taking advantage of your free labour and turns you into a right chump. I hope you're not a careers advisor.
I will tell you one more thing though - hard work may not always get the desired results, but it stands a way higher chance of doing that than goofing off...
Stickyfinger said:
Donkey Of The Damned said:
The NHS is underfunded and is only going to get worse as confirmed by these leaks today.
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/jun/20/le...
Regurgitated Guardian spin is not fact (as to the effects). As to a new system that demands "good management" of the budgets, about time too.https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/jun/20/le...
MONEY TREE
HTH
Donkey Of The Damned said:
Hard work does not get you to the top. Ruthlessness, psychopathy and a large dose of luck often does though.
bks. First job I worked longer than any of my peers. I took no holidays. I took no sickies. What I did was learn loads, put myself in the driving seat in plenty of deals. I was therefore given more responsibility. I made myself more valuable and invaluable to the business.There is some luck - I chose some internal moves well in hindsight (but I had sound, logical reasons for making the changes). But I didn't step on anyone's toes or climb the greasy pole by clambering over other people (or knifing them in the back).
tomw2000 said:
alfie2244 said:
Didn't nod to the Queen and turned to his left and smirked....not nodding is acceptable.....smirking is another thing altogether IMO.
edit.not only smirked but winked as well I now see!
Treason? Off with his head!edit.not only smirked but winked as well I now see!
Edited by alfie2244 on Wednesday 21st June 11:41
Don't know if true, and can't be arsed to research it, but I did hear he wants to give the Falklands to the Argies and Gib to the Spanish....dangerous people him and is comrades IMO.
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