Jeremy Corbyn Vol. 2

[gooner1]

768 said:

gooner1 said:

Just a reminder of the type of people, that last nights vote impacted.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jun/28/po...




http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/fir...

Which ones would you single out to lose their jobs so others can have a pay increase?

Well not the ones that lost their jobs because of the £1billion given to the DUP, obviously.
Remind me again, who were they?

[sidicks]

MDMetal said:

I think there's 10 mp's in NI who could knock together 1bn to pay for some odds and ends?

Besides removing a pay cap doesn't mean anyone actuall gets paid more does it? it just means they could be...

On the radio this morning they were being reminded that, according to the IFS, like-for-like pay (where that can be measured) is still 3% higher in the public sector. And that ignores the significant additional benefits in the public sector etc.

[Puggit]

gooner1 said:

Just a reminder of the type of people, that last nights vote impacted.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jun/28/po...




http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/fir...

Just a reminder of the people who Corbyn cynically used last night in an attempt to break the government and gain power for himself.

This was never a vote to give these worthy people more money. It was an attempt to break the government. That's why there were cheers at the end - Corbyn failed (again).

[skahigh]

I wonder how many people know that many (all?) public sector workers get annual incremental pay increases until they reach the top of their banding regardless of the 1% cap?

[gooner1]

sidicks said:

On the radio this morning they were being reminded that, according to the IFS, like-for-like pay (where that can be measured) is still 3% higher in the public sector. And that ignores the significant additional benefits in the public sector etc.

Are you advocating that the puplic sector moves down to the private sector conditions?

[PorkInsider]

gooner1 said:

sidicks said:

On the radio this morning they were being reminded that, according to the IFS, like-for-like pay (where that can be measured) is still 3% higher in the public sector. And that ignores the significant additional benefits in the public sector etc.

Are you advocating that the puplic sector moves down to the private sector conditions?

Are you advocating that the private sector stays below public sector conditions?

[Stickyfinger]

gooner1 said:

Are you advocating that the puplic sector moves down to the private sector conditions?

You know you a walking into this hole as only a blind indoctrinated lefty can don't you ?

[gooner1]

Puggit said:

gooner1 said:

Just a reminder of the type of people, that last nights vote impacted.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jun/28/po...




http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/fir...

Just a reminder of the people who Corbyn cynically used last night in an attempt to break the government and gain power for himself.

This was never a vote to give these worthy people more money. It was an attempt to break the government. That's why there were cheers at the end - Corbyn failed (again).

Perhaps, but the tories had the chance, and probably the will of the country with regards to this specific issue, to call Corbyn's bluff. Once again they bottled it.

[PorkInsider]

skahigh said:

I wonder how many people know that many (all?) public sector workers get annual incremental pay increases until they reach the top of their banding regardless of the 1% cap?

My friend's wife (public sector) told us that she's had 6.5% over the past 2 years when we we talking about the cap during the run up to the GE.

I don't begrudge her that in the slightest, but you're right regarding the question of how many people outside the public sector know how it works.

[skahigh]

PorkInsider said:

skahigh said:

I wonder how many people know that many (all?) public sector workers get annual incremental pay increases until they reach the top of their banding regardless of the 1% cap?

My friend's wife (public sector) told us that she's had 6.5% over the past 2 years when we we talking about the cap during the run up to the GE.

I don't begrudge her that in the slightest, but you're right regarding the question of how many people outside the public sector know how it works.

My wife is an NHS speech therapist (band 6) and has reached the top of her banding, sadly she's been stuck on a band 6 for many years despite performing the role of a band 7 as in the NHS you simply aren't moved up unless you move in to a new job (usually with a different trust).

I'm in favour of the cap being lifted but at a time when it can be budgeted for appropriately, not just because JC wants to score political points and get the masses frothing about our public sector workers.

I have a suspicion the cap will be lifted in the next budget.

If you're at the top of your band then you are getting less than inflation raises each year but, if you're at the top of your band you're also not the worst off in your role so probably don't have much to complain about relatively speaking.

[hyphen]

skahigh said:

I wonder how many people know that many (all?) public sector workers get annual incremental pay increases until they reach the top of their banding regardless of the 1% cap?

True, but to balance that there is currently a lot of discontent as a sizeable amount of new jobs are being done on fixed term contracts rather than proper job to get out of giving them other benefits, for example Maternity

[AMacA]

skahigh said:

I wonder how many people know that many (all?) public sector workers get annual incremental pay increases until they reach the top of their banding regardless of the 1% cap?

Not true.

Public sector worker here in one of the main gov't departments and I've not had an incremental rise in a lot of years, certainly 8 at least. A three year pay deal ended in 2010, followed by a pay freeze for a number of years then 1% since. In that time employee pension contributions have risen also, so in real terms if it wasn't for promotions in the intervening years I think I'd be on the same or less than I was about 10 years ago.

[Moonhawk]

skahigh said:

My wife is an NHS speech therapist (band 6) and has reached the top of her banding, sadly she's been stuck on a band 6 for many years despite performing the role of a band 7 as in the NHS you simply aren't moved up unless you move in to a new job (usually with a different trust).

Doesn't sound too dissimilar to the private sector. I have only ever got one internal promotion with a company

Every promotion or step up the career ladder has necessarily come with the expense of moving jobs, same with my wife - it seems par for the course these days.

[skahigh]

AMacA said:

skahigh said:

I wonder how many people know that many (all?) public sector workers get annual incremental pay increases until they reach the top of their banding regardless of the 1% cap?

Not true.

Public sector worker here in one of the main gov't departments and I've not had an incremental rise in a lot of years, certainly 8 at least. A three year pay deal ended in 2010, followed by a pay freeze for a number of years then 1% since. In that time employee pension contributions have risen also, so in real terms if it wasn't for promotions in the intervening years I think I'd be on the same or less than I was about 10 years ago.

How does your own experience disprove what I said?

NHS workers (a fairly large proportion of the public sector) are covered by agenda for change.

[Ganglandboss]

skahigh said:

I wonder how many people know that many (all?) public sector workers get annual incremental pay increases until they reach the top of their banding regardless of the 1% cap?

I worked in the public sector, and was subject to the same salary progression; it isn't as great as it sounds. I did an electrical apprenticeship in a university estates department and stayed there about seven years afterwards. As an apprentice, my pay was fantastic compared to the lads at college who were mostly working for contractors. When they come out of their time though, they suddenly move onto full pay, but I get put onto the bottom of my grade.

Those that had reached the top of their grade were on reasonable money; it was probably a bit less than an equivalent job in the private sector, but the pension and job security make up for that. The pay at the bottom of the grade is crap though, so the annual increment is not a perk, it is just the means of progression to a reasonable salary.

[skahigh]

Ganglandboss said:

skahigh said:

I wonder how many people know that many (all?) public sector workers get annual incremental pay increases until they reach the top of their banding regardless of the 1% cap?

I worked in the public sector, and was subject to the same salary progression; it isn't as great as it sounds. I did an electrical apprenticeship in a university estates department and stayed there about seven years afterwards. As an apprentice, my pay was fantastic compared to the lads at college who were mostly working for contractors. When they come out of their time though, they suddenly move onto full pay, but I get put onto the bottom of my grade.

Those that had reached the top of their grade were on reasonable money; it was probably a bit less than an equivalent job in the private sector, but the pension and job security make up for that. The pay at the bottom of the grade is crap though, so the annual increment is not a perk, it is just the means of progression to a reasonable salary.

I'm not suggesting it's fantastic at all, as I've mentioned above, my wife is subject to the system.

My point was that I suspect a large percentage of the public are unaware of the systems operated in the public sector and think that all public sector workers are only ever getting a max of 1% per year which, simply isn't true.

[AMacA]

skahigh said:

AMacA said:

skahigh said:

I wonder how many people know that many (all?) public sector workers get annual incremental pay increases until they reach the top of their banding regardless of the 1% cap?

Not true.

Public sector worker here in one of the main gov't departments and I've not had an incremental rise in a lot of years, certainly 8 at least. A three year pay deal ended in 2010, followed by a pay freeze for a number of years then 1% since. In that time employee pension contributions have risen also, so in real terms if it wasn't for promotions in the intervening years I think I'd be on the same or less than I was about 10 years ago.

How does your own experience disprove what I said?

NHS workers (a fairly large proportion of the public sector) are covered by agenda for change.

I think the difference is that I'm looking at it from the civil service perspective, rather than broader public sector.

If you have a look at para 1.3 of this link, the bit half way down it called "Pay Progression Reform" or something similar it sets out the removal of pay progression in the civil service.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/civil-s...

[sidicks]

AMacA said:

I think the difference is that I'm looking at it from the civil service perspective, rather than broader public sector.

If you have a look at para 1.3 of this link, the bit half way down it called "Pay Progression Reform" or something similar it sets out the removal of pay progression in the civil service.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/civil-s...

Looking at that section 1.3:
Average pay awards limited to up to 1%
Summer Budget 2015 confirmed that the government would fund public sector workforces for an average pay award of 1 per cent for 4 years from 2016-17 onwards, applied in a targeted manner within workforces to support the delivery of public services.

So there is no cap at an individual level, just in aggregate, so clearly scope to reward those that really deserve it?!

[ofcorsa]

Puggit said:

Just a reminder of the people who Corbyn cynically used last night in an attempt to break the government and gain power for himself.

This was never a vote to give these worthy people more money. It was an attempt to break the government. That's why there were cheers at the end - Corbyn failed (again).

Exactly,this was Corbyn using a sacrificial policy to test the waters of the governments majority

[Tankrizzo]

gooner1 said:

Are you advocating that the puplic sector moves down to the private sector conditions?

Go on, say "race to the bottom", you know you're dying to.