Jeremy Corbyn Vol. 2
Discussion
Slaav said:
If I understand correctly, the Shadow Minister has either himself lied? Or he has made it up? Or he has misinterpreted the statements and ambitions/pledges wrongly?
Let's give him/her the benefit of the doubt and assume it is the latter; does that then mean he/she has deliberately misinterpreted JC's words? Or have they simply misunderstood them as that was the impression given?
Again giving the benefit of doubt and it was a genuine mistake, are we to believe that HIS OWN SHADOW CABINET have read things into his claims/statements that would be unreasonable for a student to read????
Really?
Well Diane Abbott thought Jeremy had pledged to pay 10,000 new police officers £30pa so any things possible in his shower of sLet's give him/her the benefit of the doubt and assume it is the latter; does that then mean he/she has deliberately misinterpreted JC's words? Or have they simply misunderstood them as that was the impression given?
Again giving the benefit of doubt and it was a genuine mistake, are we to believe that HIS OWN SHADOW CABINET have read things into his claims/statements that would be unreasonable for a student to read????
Really?
t cabinet.
edh said:
Oooh yes, I remember that speech getting wall to wall media coverage for days - often cited as the speech that turned the polls round for Labour 
- he must have read too many comments on twitter, daft politician shooting his mouth off
I wonder what he thought he meant by "existing"?
2 questions if I may:- he must have read too many comments on twitter, daft politician shooting his mouth off
I wonder what he thought he meant by "existing"?Did you really vote Labour?
Do you honestly believe Corbyn and his shadow cabinet will be good for the country?
PGNSagaris said:
edh said:
Oooh yes, I remember that speech getting wall to wall media coverage for days - often cited as the speech that turned the polls round for Labour
- he must have read too many comments on twitter, daft politician shooting his mouth off I wonder what he thought he meant by "existing"?
2 questions if I may:- he must have read too many comments on twitter, daft politician shooting his mouth off
I wonder what he thought he meant by "existing"?Did you really vote Labour?
Do you honestly believe Corbyn and his shadow cabinet will be good for the country?
edh said:
sidicks said:
edh said:
I still fail to see what promise he made apart from to seriously address the issue of student debt once in office. Not a manifesto commitment unlike that given on student fees.
"I’m looking at ways that we could reduce that, ameliorate that, lengthen the period of paying it off, or some other means of reducing that debt burden. I don’t have the simple answer for it at this stage"
or even this excerpt which suggests the focus will be on the tranche who paid 9k pa fees
"And I don’t see why those that had the historical misfortune to be at university during the £9,000 period should be burdened excessively compared to those that went before or those that come after."
Isn't the debt lready cancelled after 30 years or something? Was he really suggesting to cancel the debt after 50 years instead?"I’m looking at ways that we could reduce that, ameliorate that, lengthen the period of paying it off, or some other means of reducing that debt burden. I don’t have the simple answer for it at this stage"
or even this excerpt which suggests the focus will be on the tranche who paid 9k pa fees
"And I don’t see why those that had the historical misfortune to be at university during the £9,000 period should be burdened excessively compared to those that went before or those that come after."
AFAIK ~50% of student debts are forecast to be unrecoverable, so there is a massive future cost to be borne anyway.
The "debt" is not a future debt. Nobody owes anything at any time. The Government pays the Universities upfront. Some of the cost is recouped over a 30 year period as tax.
It's a tax, not a debt.
The cost is being borne NOW. It is being paid for by Government borrowing and taxes.
Universities need paid for.
Person A decides to go to Uni
Person B decided to of to work.
Given that Person B will be paying for Person A's education ( and all Person A's ) for the rest of their life.
Why should Person B pay for the continued education of Person A ( and all Person A's ) for the rest of their life?
Person A decides to go to Uni
Person B decided to of to work.
Given that Person B will be paying for Person A's education ( and all Person A's ) for the rest of their life.
Why should Person B pay for the continued education of Person A ( and all Person A's ) for the rest of their life?
djc206 said:
maffski said:
It makes it into a tax - if you do well in life you pay more for your higher education.
But that's not true now it's structured such that it punishes the moderately successful. The interest rates on loans taken out since 2012 have risen so if you earn £41k or more you pay RPI +3%. If you earned say £45k you'd be paying a tad over £2k each year in repayments but accruing ~£1800 in interest on a £40k loan. You'd be paying for 30 years without ever really touching the actual loan amount but having made £60k in repayments. If you earned £100k you'd be paying back £7.2k and of that over £5.3k in the first year would be going towards the loan, your total interest bill would be a fraction of that of the lower earner.This way, the "debt" will never be repaid. HMRC will be paid the tax for the whole 30 years by nearly all the students (circa 50% of the future population).
Slaav said:
Again giving the benefit of doubt and it was a genuine mistake......
If it was - why has it taken until now for them to provide clarification that it was not actually the case. Could it be that this 'mistake' was likely to win them a hell of a lot of votes.......so they decided to keep shtum until after the election.
Troubleatmill said:
Universities need paid for.
Person A decides to go to Uni
Person B decided to of to work.
Given that Person B will be paying for Person A's education ( and all Person A's ) for the rest of their life.
Why should Person B pay for the continued education of Person A ( and all Person A's ) for the rest of their life?
It's a bit more complicated than that though.Person A decides to go to Uni
Person B decided to of to work.
Given that Person B will be paying for Person A's education ( and all Person A's ) for the rest of their life.
Why should Person B pay for the continued education of Person A ( and all Person A's ) for the rest of their life?
Most person 'B's are unlikely to be net contributors at the start of their career - and some will never be (especially if they work in the public sector). This means that whatever taxes they pay aren't in fact paying for person 'A's education at all - they are merely contributing a percentage toward their own upkeep.
MWM3 said:
Have Corbyn, McDonnell or Abbott commented on the situation yet? It was their favorite model of socialism working for everyone wasn't it?
98elise said:
MWM3 said:
Have Corbyn, McDonnell or Abbott commented on the situation yet? It was their favorite model of socialism working for everyone wasn't it?
motco said:
Someone on R4 this morning is suggesting that Labour could gain a significant advantage in 2022 by changing to a new referendum/rejoin EU stance on the assumptions that the post Brexit period will be trying and the benefits unrealised as yet. Opportunism? Labour? Mais non!
I see Sad-dick Khan is banging on about something similar todayirocfan said:
motco said:
Someone on R4 this morning is suggesting that Labour could gain a significant advantage in 2022 by changing to a new referendum/rejoin EU stance on the assumptions that the post Brexit period will be trying and the benefits unrealised as yet. Opportunism? Labour? Mais non!
I see Sad-dick Khan is banging on about something similar todayAs said above as Corbyn is genuine left rather than a nulabor centrist he has an inbuilt distrust and dislike of the EU project, the question therefore is could anyone see him being ousted from within the Labour party on the basis that he isn't pro-EU? I don't see this as remotely possible personally and talk of it is only more desperation from those in his party who never wanted him in the first place.
Politically Labour have played a blinder on the EU this year, say whatever anyone want to hears and offer 0 real policy. The 'outcomes' based position is hilarious, its like saying to your doctor I want the treatment plan please that gives me the best chance of living. Of course you would say that its meaningless management speak for the bleeding obvious.
Politically Labour have played a blinder on the EU this year, say whatever anyone want to hears and offer 0 real policy. The 'outcomes' based position is hilarious, its like saying to your doctor I want the treatment plan please that gives me the best chance of living. Of course you would say that its meaningless management speak for the bleeding obvious.
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