Jeremy Corbyn Vol. 2

[philv]

Fittster said:

turbobloke said:

sgtBerbatov said:

turbobloke said:

mx5nut said:

techiedave said:

I'm surprised but not amazed at how little scrutiny Corbyn comes up against.

Other than the near constant attacks from the mainstream press and all over social media (including this very thread) every time he opens his mouth, of course.

Less than he deserves

Because the arse kissing Theresa May's getting is well deserved.

Tell me how that election to deliver a proper Brexit without any questioning or bullst went again?

The Conservative Party held office, she remained PM and Corbyn was defeated.

Apart from that, a disaster for May personally. She really cannot expect to fight the next election as leader. May is, however, far above Corbyn as PM material - this only serves to emphasise how utterly dire Corbyn is.

In passing, Merkel has escaped too much for too long; how many ministerial posts has she given away after how long to scrape together a government of sorts? Good job she took no joy from May's result...

If only Merkel could have found a party with links to terrorists and then given them a billion pounds to buy their votes.

A neccesary evil to save this country from JC.
JC on the other hand does it out of love.
There is a massive difference.

In case you don’t see it, it’s because he likes it, she does not.

Edited by philv on Wednesday 21st February 19:29

Edited by philv on Wednesday 21st February 19:30

[Rovinghawk]

edh said:

I've had this discussion before on NP&E about financialisation and its undesirable consequences. This doesn't mean an end to UK finance, but meaningful curbs to its activity. If the undesireable stuff slopes off to Dubai or Singapore, then that's great. Without the overbearing pressure of "finance", maybe UK business will be able to concentrate on innovation and productivity, not financial engineering? That's what replaces the tax take & that's what will improve people's wages.

Does the tax take get replaced simultaneously or is there a delay of a few years before anything like the same revenues are generated (if at all)? What do we do for an economy in the interim?

edh said:

I read an FT piece on water privatisation the other day setting out quite clearly how affordable it was, with annual profits covering 10 year gilts more than 2x.

Could you give a link to this fantasy, please?

[sidicks]

edh said:

Come the glorious revolution comrade, such "grumpy" thoughts might require some serious re-education

Maybe we'll find out...

I saw an interview with Michael Hudson where he argued that Adam Smith's definition of a "free market" was one free from rent seeking and financial usury (I'm paraphrasing). I don't know how accurate he was, but it made sense to me. Look no further than RBS GRG (and the shameful way that the bank and the FCA have tried to cover this up). Pick any number of banking scandals where firms have acted, often criminally, against the interests of businesses and individuals.

Which firms have acted criminally? What evidence of criminal active that has not gone unpunished do you have?

edh said:

I've had this discussion before on NP&E about financialisation and its undesirable consequences. This doesn't mean an end to UK finance, but meaningful curbs to its activity. If the undesireable stuff slopes off to Dubai or Singapore, then that's great. Without the overbearing pressure of "finance", maybe UK business will be able to concentrate on innovation and productivity, not financial engineering? That's what replaces the tax take & that's what will improve people's wages.

Corbyn is the ultimate accidental leader, our very own Chauncy Gardiner - albeit an ideological one, as you say. Although he has proved to be pretty pragmatic over Brexit so far though, and has steered the party through an outright rebellion by the majority of his PLP, a GE where the party machine was acting against him, and a Brexit split among MP's party members and Labour voters. He's done much better than I expected TBH - I thought he was an interim leader at best, and would likely be replaced in 2018 after the left had consolidated its hold on the party.

I voted for him, as the other candidates were hugely uninspiring. I had hopes for Burnham but he was disappointing. I thought the 2017 manifesto was an admirable step forwards. The dangerous pinko policies appear to be getting wider acceptance. Rail nationalisation is very popular. I read an FT piece on water privatisation the other day setting out quite clearly how affordable it was, with annual profits covering 10 year gilts more than 2x. The Tories are increasingly trying to fight on Labour's turf - do they think they will gain much ground with another review of student fees and HE?

If you haven't seen it yet, check out AFNeil's interview with Steve Baker on the Czech spy stuff...he is by far the best interviewer on TV and savages all the parties (and therefore gets accused of bias by everyone). Mind you, I haven't seen Corbyn produce definitive proof that he's stopped beating his wife, so I think there are still "serious questions to answer"..

1) I don't believe the numbers, please can you link to this article?
2) Where do you think 10-year gilts will be if Corbyn looks like getting into power?

[LDN]

sidicks said:

LDN said:

That was proven to be true though. It was Branson that lied.

Carry on.

What was actually ‘proven’?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41036937

The article suggest the train was crowded, not overcrowded, and there were seats available. Just not necessarily 2 together, which was certainly not the impression Corbyn tried to portray.

Edited by sidicks on Wednesday 21st February 19:07

The CCTV shows that it was overcrowded, with people sat on the floor between carriages. Not sure why that upsets anyone...

Bizarre.

[sidicks]

LDN said:

The CCTV shows that it was overcrowded, with people sat on the floor between carriages. Not sure why that upsets anyone...

Bizarre.

Overcrowded? The CCTV shows there were still spare seats, so people CHOSE to sit on the floor. Not sure why that upsets you?

[BlackLabel]

[pingu393]

I find it astounding that he takes a holiday in East Germany and there is no Stasi file on him.

[edh]

For rovinghawk and sidicks...
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.ft.com/content/...
Looks like it is paywalled but accessible via a Google search.

Write to the FT if you don't like it - I'm using it as an example of how the debate has changed

Sidicks - re criminal activity by banks, "that has not been punished". Thats not my point so dont try to twist it. Plenty of criminal activity that has been punished, although the US has had more teeth... don't ask me about the known unknowns or the unknown unknowns though.

[sidicks]

edh said:

For rovinghawk and sidicks...
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.ft.com/content/...
Looks like it is paywalled but accessible via a Google search.

Write to the FT if you don't like it - I'm using it as an example of how the debate has changed

Thanks:

1) It assumes that gilt rates don't change (when they are currently at historic lows)
2) It is based on profits continuing 'as is', which defeats the whole object of the nationalisation
3) they somehow make the claim that the government wouldn't need to pay 'full value'

edh said:

Sidicks - re criminal activity by banks, "that has not been punished". Thats not my point so dont try to twist it. Plenty of criminal activity that has been punished, although the US has had more teeth... don't ask me about the known unknowns or the unknown unknowns though.

I'm not trying to twist anything. If, like in every walk of life, there are criminals who are punished when they are found out, what exactly is the point you are trying to make? Aren't there criminals in the police, NHS, education too?

Edited by sidicks on Wednesday 21st February 20:55

[Rovinghawk]

edh said:

For rovinghawk and sidicks...
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.ft.com/content/...
Looks like it is paywalled but accessible via a Google search.

With Corbyn in power gilt interest rates would have to be sky-high for anyone to take them. This wasn't allowed for when saying profits could cover them. Neither was the fact that profits would be lower as Corbyn would lower prices massively and throw money into infrastructure (not necessarily a bad thing).

OTOH if the shareholders were robbed of the shares & given worthless paper in their place, all bets are off as to 'affordability'.

[jurbie]

pingu393 said:

I find it astounding that he takes a holiday in East Germany and there is no Stasi file on him.

To be fair the Stasi were pretty good at shredding all their files when the wall came down. They didn't have time to dispose of the remains however so today there is a small but dedicated team piecing together all the shredded files. This is expected to take some time.

[Yipper]

Amazed Corbyn is still in charge!

A commie antisemitic anti-Britain spy and wants to steal your house, water, trains and bank and send the country bust!

We know people want all his free stuff, but it's just getting silly now.

[turbobloke]

philv said:

Fittster said:

turbobloke said:

sgtBerbatov said:

turbobloke said:

mx5nut said:

techiedave said:

I'm surprised but not amazed at how little scrutiny Corbyn comes up against.

Other than the near constant attacks from the mainstream press and all over social media (including this very thread) every time he opens his mouth, of course.

Less than he deserves

Because the arse kissing Theresa May's getting is well deserved.

Tell me how that election to deliver a proper Brexit without any questioning or bullst went again?

The Conservative Party held office, she remained PM and Corbyn was defeated.

Apart from that, a disaster for May personally. She really cannot expect to fight the next election as leader. May is, however, far above Corbyn as PM material - this only serves to emphasise how utterly dire Corbyn is.

In passing, Merkel has escaped too much for too long; how many ministerial posts has she given away after how long to scrape together a government of sorts? Good job she took no joy from May's result...

If only Merkel could have found a party with links to terrorists and then given them a billion pounds to buy their votes.

A neccesary evil to save this country from JC.
JC on the other hand does it out of love.
There is a massive difference.

In case you don’t see it, it’s because he likes it, she does not.

[turbobloke]

Yipper said:

Amazed Corbyn is still in charge!

A commie antisemitic anti-Britain spy and wants to steal your house, water, trains and bank and send the country bust!

We know people want all his free stuff, but it's just getting silly now.

[Cobnapint]

BlackLabel said:

Genius.

(The headline writer, not the prick on right (left).

[Halb]

edh said:

For rovinghawk and sidicks...
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.ft.com/content/...
Looks like it is paywalled but accessible via a Google search.

Write to the FT if you don't like it - I'm using it as an example of how the debate has changed

Sidicks - re criminal activity by banks, "that has not been punished". Thats not my point so dont try to twist it. Plenty of criminal activity that has been punished, although the US has had more teeth... don't ask me about the known unknowns or the unknown unknowns though.

Thanks for that

[gizlaroc]

Listening to LBC today, the topic was......

"Corbyn said 'the spy nonsense is the press getting frightened we may have a Labour government, change is coming".
.....are you frightened too?"


Listening to the callers and texters two things struck me, well three.

Firstly, many were stting themselves, saying if he got in they would call it a day with their businesses.

Then we had two other things.

A couple of people said that 2/3 of the population actually believe in the Labour parties policies when asked about them in a survey while not being told whose policies the were.

The other thing was when being pressed about how Labour was going to fund these policies most said "Well I don't know enough about that side of things."

Which really summed it up for me, you have labour voters and then you have people who understand basic economics.


Of course 2/3 of the UK think Corbyns policies are great, we all want more money for the NHS, schools, police, fire blah blah blah, I would guess 95% of the UK want those policies, the difference is we currently have enough people who are smart enough to know they can't be afforded.
We don't vote for a government because we don't give a st about our NHS, Police, Education system etc., most tory voters are voting for them because they think that although these things are struggling, if Labour get in we will be bust within a few years and we will be in a far worse state.

We all want the same things, just some of us are realists and don't want to burden our kids with record unemployment, recession and a life of debt to be repaid, which is what we think we will get if Comrade Corbyn gets in.

[T6 vanman]

gizlaroc said:

Stuff.

We all want the same things, just some of us are realists and don't want to burden our kids with record unemployment, recession and a life of debt to be repaid, which is what we think we will get if Comrade Corbyn gets in.

To be honest the last Labour government left us a hair breath away from that scenario, for example 2010 gov spending at £640B but tax income at £460B or put another way income £3 outgoing £4, We'd have never made 2012 with Labour in power ...!

[Luther Blissett]

Kinda stunning that after about a decade of QE people are still under the illusion that the UK govt can run out of Sterling.

[Sway]

Luther Blissett said:

Kinda stunning that after about a decade of QE people are still under the illusion that the UK govt can run out of Sterling.

Kinda stunning that people still make nonsense strawman arguments based on a bit of Facebook rhetoric.

Who has said we'd 'run out of sterling'?

You do know there is a huge difference between how much money has been printed, and what it is worth? Or that governments rely on issuance of bonds at interest rates that need to attract the market?