Jeremy Corbyn Vol. 2

[Gargamel]

zygalski said:

Well the Tories are doing a fine job of fking virtually everything up at the moment.
A difficult act for a future Labour government to follow indeed.

Sorry come again ?

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-43139497

Wage growth up, Productivity Up, Economy still growing.

Should Labour ever get to power people will look back on moments like these as the good times !

[turbobloke]

Gargamel said:

zygalski said:

Well the Tories are doing a fine job of fking virtually everything up at the moment.
A difficult act for a future Labour government to follow indeed.

Sorry come again ?

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-43139497

Wage growth up, Productivity Up, Economy still growing.

Should Labour ever get to power people will look back on moments like these as the good times !

Indeed.

Fortunately the chances of a Labour government remain very small.

Here's hoping it remains that way.

[sidicks]

zygalski said:

Well the Tories are doing a fine job of fking virtually everything up at the moment.
A difficult act for a future Labour government to follow indeed.

In what way? Or is this just a standard response that you like to post regardless of reality?

[motco]

Rovinghawk said:

mx5nut said:

We've had leftie governments before and we've been fine.

Ever hear tell of the Winter of Discontent?

Ever hear anything about the huge deficit built up under the last Labour government, plus PFI commitments, unfunded pension commitments for the massively expanded public sector?

There are so very many other examples available- start with Stephen Byers attempting to confiscate private property & losing in court 3 times.

Not to mention Harold Wilson's "...pound in your pocket..." speech, and inflation waving about between 15 - 25% and a wage freeze concurrently.

[bazza white]

Gargamel said:

Corbyn supporters sound more and more like Trump supporters everyday.

We have had "change is coming " which sounds a lot like "we will drain the swamp"

Now we are getting Corbyn saying the Mass Media is printing lies about him to smear him - very Trumpesque

Finally we have this weird stuff about "narrative"

Corbyn has met with all sorts of people in his career as an agitprop communist. Which is fine, but he can hardly complain when these are exposed in the media. In 1986 Corbyn would have thought he had more chance of being the next Queen, than Labour Party leader.

He is more like trump than people realise. The press are also doing the same to Corbyn as they did to trump. Dont be surprised to see corbyn in at the next election thanks to the press.

[AstonZagato]

mx5nut said:

I'm no Corbyn supporter - I just like fake news a little less than him

ok but this followed:

mx5nut said:

It's hard to avoid the feeling that some here are positively looking forward to a Corbyn government they can blame all the pitfalls of Brexit on.

"Oh well we would have made a success of Brexit (voted for correctly by the will of the people who had full access to the facts and knew exactly what they were voting for) but the real reason businesses are fleeing the country is that Corbyn is PM (people were tricked in to voting by fake news and had no idea about the consequences of their vote)."

which is unsubstantiated and probably fake.

Cognitive dissonance.

[LordLoveLength]

motco said:

Rovinghawk said:

mx5nut said:

We've had leftie governments before and we've been fine.

Ever hear tell of the Winter of Discontent?

Ever hear anything about the huge deficit built up under the last Labour government, plus PFI commitments, unfunded pension commitments for the massively expanded public sector?

There are so very many other examples available- start with Stephen Byers attempting to confiscate private property & losing in court 3 times.

Not to mention Harold Wilson's "...pound in your pocket..." speech, and inflation waving about between 15 - 25% and a wage freeze concurrently.

And having to go cap-in-hand to the IMF in 1976 for a $3.9Bn loan.

Here's the reality of what will happen if he gets in

[AstonZagato]

Sway said:

Rovinghawk said:

Sway said:

the creditors will be told to do one - especially as there isn't a mechanism to call in the debt.

A highly likely consequence of this is that they'd get nothing more on credit- how do they cope then?

It's not 'on credit'. Someone in Italy is buying something from Germany. The money leaves their account, and money enters the supplier's account. No credit needed.

The problem, is that the central banks don't have to reconcile those transactions, and actually transfer money between them. So all that happens is the money from the Italian buyer goes to the Italian Central Bank, and an IOU is logged with the German Central Bank, who actually issue the funds to the German supplier.

There is no way of preventing that - it's the fundamental principle of how the Eurozone works. Remember, no one else has ever been daft enough to create a currency union without fiscal union, and so there has never needed to be such legislation for intra-Central Bank reconciliations within a single currency. The only way of changing this is for the ECB to become a true central bank, removing pretty much all power from the national central banks.

I'm sure you can imagine how palatable that suggestion would be.

The Euro is designed specifically to fail. The architects knew that they could only implement it properly if they had fiscal union. Fiscal union requires political union. They could not do this as virtually none of the European electorates would sanction such a move. However, if their currency were to collapse, they just might. Jacques Delors has said this in my presence.
It almost worked in the Greek crisis - lots of fiscal transfers (even though they are not possible under the Maastricht Treaty). They just need another proper scare and they'll get what they wanted all along.

[chris watton]

AstonZagato said:

The Euro is designed specifically to fail. The architects knew that they could only implement it properly if they had fiscal union. Fiscal union requires political union. They could not do this as virtually none of the European electorates would sanction such a move. However, if their currency were to collapse, they just might. Jacques Delors has said this in my presence.
It almost worked in the Greek crisis - lots of fiscal transfers (even though they are not possible under the Maastricht Treaty). They just need another proper scare and they'll get what they wanted all along.

When the possible bigger picture is laid bare like that, it does seem quite scary...

[Sway]

We're straying quite off topic - but some of us have been talking about this stuff, the reasons and motivations, and the potential outcomes for quite a while on the Brexit threads.

To deafening silence from those who still feel the only risks of the vote were on the Leave side...

[Dr Jekyll]

mx5nut said:

We've had leftie governments before and we've been fine.

Not as left as JC would be, and even so they've been pretty dire.

Look at the Attlee government.
Five years after winning the war the country was still broke and rationing was still in force. Meanwhile West Germany having been in a far worse state and receiving far less aid had done away with rationing and the world was already talking about the 'German economic miracle.
Also look up the 'control of engagements' order. You're an ambitious bloke in 1947 and someone offers you a better job? You can't just take it without the permission of the authorities, oh no. You have to resign, report to your local labour exchange and just hope the official decides to allocate you to the job you want.
Why exactly would Corbyn policies work any better here than in Venezuela?

[turbobloke]

Dr Jekyll said:

mx5nut said:

We've had leftie governments before and we've been fine.

Not as left as JC would be, and even so they've been pretty dire.

Look at the Attlee government.
Five years after winning the war the country was still broke and rationing was still in force. Meanwhile West Germany having been in a far worse state and receiving far less aid had done away with rationing and the world was already talking about the 'German economic miracle.
Also look up the 'control of engagements' order. You're an ambitious bloke in 1947 and someone offers you a better job? You can't just take it without the permission of the authorities, oh no. You have to resign, report to your local labour exchange and just hope the official decides to allocate you to the job you want.
Why exactly would Corbyn policies work any better here than in Venezuela?

Agreed, including the not-as-Left-as-Corbyn part, and disagree with mx5nut that we've been fine with lefty governments. I can recall vividly that things were not fine in the 70s and it's not that long since things weren't fine under Blair and Brown.

[zygalski]

Gargamel said:

zygalski said:

Well the Tories are doing a fine job of fking virtually everything up at the moment.
A difficult act for a future Labour government to follow indeed.

Sorry come again ?

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-43139497

Wage growth up, Productivity Up, Economy still growing.

Should Labour ever get to power people will look back on moments like these as the good times !

Lag from previous Labour government.

[Rovinghawk]

zygalski said:

Lag from previous Labour government.

Obviously you're joking but the scary idea is that many people will believe exactly that.

[turbobloke]

Rovinghawk said:

zygalski said:

Lag from previous Labour government.

Obviously you're joking but the scary idea is that many people will believe exactly that.

Fortunately, not enough to make a difference

[zygalski]

turbobloke said:

Rovinghawk said:

zygalski said:

Lag from previous Labour government.

Obviously you're joking but the scary idea is that many people will believe exactly that.

Fortunately, not enough to make a difference

My bad.
Positive effects of previous government economic policy only apply if the previous government was Tory & the incumbent is Labour, not vice versa.

Anyway, about the Tories doing so well.
Hmmm... neck & neck with the Communist party in the polls, had to form a government with Irish loonies to remain in power as a result of an utterly misguided & unnecessary snap election, making a complete hash of Brexit.
Looks great!

Edited by zygalski on Friday 23 February 12:52

[Johnnytheboy]

zygalski said:

My bad.
Positive effects of previous government economic policy only apply if the previous government was Tory & the incumbent is Labour, not vice versa.

It's probably the 8 year time lag that's getting the laughs.

[zygalski]

Johnnytheboy said:

zygalski said:

My bad.
Positive effects of previous government economic policy only apply if the previous government was Tory & the incumbent is Labour, not vice versa.

It's probably the 8 year time lag that's getting the laughs.

Our economy was doing ok in the previous 8 years too.

[turbobloke]

Johnnytheboy said:

zygalski said:

My bad.
Positive effects of previous government economic policy only apply if the previous government was Tory & the incumbent is Labour, not vice versa.

It's probably the 8 year time lag that's getting the laughs.

That, and the fact that lag from a national trainwreck could involve anything more than smoke and debris.

And underneath it all, a note from some Labour plank about there not being any money left.

[Cold]

zygalski said:

Johnnytheboy said:

zygalski said:

My bad.
Positive effects of previous government economic policy only apply if the previous government was Tory & the incumbent is Labour, not vice versa.

It's probably the 8 year time lag that's getting the laughs.

Our economy was doing ok in the previous 8 years too.

That was only thanks to Thatcher.