Jeremy Corbyn Vol. 2

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sidicks

25,218 posts

221 months

Saturday 24th February 2018
quotequote all
mx5nut said:
It's always time for whataboutism.
It's never time for mx5nut nonsense.

alfie2244

11,292 posts

188 months

Saturday 24th February 2018
quotequote all
mx5nut said:
It's always time for whataboutism.
You still here?

The Dangerous Elk

4,642 posts

77 months

Saturday 24th February 2018
quotequote all
mx5nut said:
The Dangerous Elk said:
Do you think David Lamey will apologise for his accusations after Grenfell Tower ?
It's always time for whataboutism.
I agree, he made an error and he should have publicly apologised for it. I am glad he had the balls and the self-respect to admit in public he was wrong.

Now, do you think the little Lamb should ?

Simple question, will you answer it?
I will bet you will not. (which will show you for what you really are)



Edited by The Dangerous Elk on Saturday 24th February 20:53

mx5nut

5,404 posts

82 months

Saturday 24th February 2018
quotequote all
Labour takes lead in polls after Czech spy claims fail to damage Jeremy Corbyn support

Are his critics really too thick to realise that making demonstrably false accusations against him will only serve to make the general public doubt any real criticisms made next time?

Cobnapint

8,628 posts

151 months

Saturday 24th February 2018
quotequote all
Fittster said:
The Labour party, on behalf of Corbyn said, "Donations to charity, plus apology or its court". If Bradley was confident in his accusations he could have said "See you in court". If he'd won, his career would have been made and he'd have finished Corbyn. Trouble is he wasn't going to win.
He wasn't going to win because he had no way if proving it. It doesn't mean to say he was wrong.

Corbyn says it's all a smear. Ex MI6 chief, Sir Richard Dearlove says Corbyn has questions to answer. I know who I believe.

Fittster

20,120 posts

213 months

Saturday 24th February 2018
quotequote all
sidicks said:
Fittster said:
The Labour party, on behalf of Corbyn said, "Donations to charity, plus apology or its court". If Bradley was confident in his accusations he could have said "See you in court". If he'd won, his career would have been made and he'd have finished Corbyn. Trouble is he wasn't going to win.

Katie Hopkins is having to sell her house because she wouldn't back down after making a false accusation.
So you think that the Tories should threaten Lamey in the same way?
I think they should ensure that if he's defamed anyone he should be apologies or being taken to court. Who has he defamed?

Why do you think the Tories haven't gone legal (they don't have a case?)?

As the case of Katie Hopkins has shown make false allegations about someone is a very expensive business.

Edited by Fittster on Saturday 24th February 21:05

edh

3,498 posts

269 months

Saturday 24th February 2018
quotequote all
sidicks said:
So you think that the Tories should threaten Lamey in the same way?
Yes of course - (although I wouldn't say threats..) if they think he's libelling them & they have a cast iron case...

Jockman

17,917 posts

160 months

Saturday 24th February 2018
quotequote all
gazza285 said:
Sway said:
I tend to avoid going north of Luton as I get nosebleeds.

Try keeping your mouth closed?
Or at least get a new nose?

The Dangerous Elk

4,642 posts

77 months

Saturday 24th February 2018
quotequote all
The Dangerous Elk said:
I agree, he made an error and he should have publicly apologised for it. I am glad he had the balls and the self-respect to admit in public he was wrong.

Now, do you think the little Lamb should ?

Simple question, will you answer it?
I will bet you will not. (which will show you for what you really are)
MX5, are you going to answer or not ?



Russian Troll Bot

24,980 posts

227 months

Saturday 24th February 2018
quotequote all
loafer123 said:
Einion Yrth said:
Sway said:
Fittster said:
The Dangerous Elk said:
Do you think David Lamey will apologise for his accusations after Grenfell Tower ?
If he's defamed someone they have a legal path open to them.

You make untrue statements, such as 'Corbyn sold secrets' you maybe faced with an expensive and humiliating climb down. Even Katie Hopkins has been able to learn that one.
How about "McDonnell is a raving Marxist who wants to destroy the whole capitalist system"?
Remember, no matter how blatantly obvious it is, the burden of proof is on you. McDonnell is probably mad enough to admit it, however, which makes things easier.
Plenty to work with...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/11...
Especially the Marxist part

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lCcFjRhiaw

Fittster

20,120 posts

213 months

Saturday 24th February 2018
quotequote all
Russian Troll Bot said:
loafer123 said:
Einion Yrth said:
Sway said:
Fittster said:
The Dangerous Elk said:
Do you think David Lamey will apologise for his accusations after Grenfell Tower ?
If he's defamed someone they have a legal path open to them.

You make untrue statements, such as 'Corbyn sold secrets' you maybe faced with an expensive and humiliating climb down. Even Katie Hopkins has been able to learn that one.
How about "McDonnell is a raving Marxist who wants to destroy the whole capitalist system"?
Remember, no matter how blatantly obvious it is, the burden of proof is on you. McDonnell is probably mad enough to admit it, however, which makes things easier.
Plenty to work with...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/11...
Especially the Marxist part

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lCcFjRhiaw
Marx states that capitalism is unstable, how much laughter do people get from Gordon Brown's quote about banishing boom and bust? So you can't class Gordon Brown as a Marxist but those who think boom and bust are an inherit part of a capitalist system are signing up to a Marxist position.

Sway

26,276 posts

194 months

Saturday 24th February 2018
quotequote all
Fittster said:
Marx states that capitalism is unstable, how much laughter do people get from Gordon Brown's quote about banishing boom and bust? So you can't class Gordon Brown as a Marxist but those who think boom and bust are an inherit part of a capitalist system are signing up to a Marxist position.
Who's claimed Gordon Brown was a Marxist?

McDonnell however, clearly is. Self admitted.

Do you think many Scandinavian policitians (especially ones with a shot at being Chancellor) would call themselves Marxist, and want a planned economy?

Fittster

20,120 posts

213 months

Sunday 25th February 2018
quotequote all
Sway said:
Fittster said:
Marx states that capitalism is unstable, how much laughter do people get from Gordon Brown's quote about banishing boom and bust? So you can't class Gordon Brown as a Marxist but those who think boom and bust are an inherit part of a capitalist system are signing up to a Marxist position.
Who's claimed Gordon Brown was a Marxist?

McDonnell however, clearly is. Self admitted.

Do you think many Scandinavian policitians (especially ones with a shot at being Chancellor) would call themselves Marxist, and want a planned economy?
I'm saying that Marx viewed boom and bust as inherent part of a capitalist economic model.

Marxism is a economic framework to analyse capitalism. If you use that framework one conclusion you will come to is capitalism is inherently unstable (boom and bust). I don't think there's anything particularly controversial there. Keynesian economics also deals heavily with boom and bust.
If you think boom and bust can be removed from the system your with Gordon Brown.

If you think that booms and busts are inevitable then its a good idea to have policies in place to deal with the busts. For example a welfare state that can support workers that are laid off during a down turn.

Thinking that using a Marxist critique of capitalism means that someone is in favour of a centrally planned economy is quite a large assumption. The central thrust of Marx is about freedom of workers from exploitation. Clearly you don't like Marx, so maybe Adam Smith is more your sort of economist

"capitalism makes workers as "stupid and ignorant as it is possible for a human creature to become."

petrolsniffer

2,461 posts

174 months

Sunday 25th February 2018
quotequote all
Gargamel said:
There is no chance JC will ever be elected as PM

He had a base of around 25% of the vote. That is it.

He is politial disaster for the Labour party and wil make them unelectable. They may never get back into powet because if what has happened to the party machine post Miliband.

Who would be the next Labout leader ? Anyone with any centre appeal has been executed by the left. You can't win a UK GE from 'over there'

The Conservatives are in an awful mess and the polls are still neck and neck. In any future GE whilst old man Corbyn is still Labour leader they will lose.
I'll still put £10 on it just so corbyn can take it away if he wins smile

Dr Jekyll

23,820 posts

261 months

Sunday 25th February 2018
quotequote all
Fittster said:
I'm saying that Marx viewed boom and bust as inherent part of a capitalist economic model.

Marxism is a economic framework to analyse capitalism. If you use that framework one conclusion you will come to is capitalism is inherently unstable (boom and bust). I don't think there's anything particularly controversial there. Keynesian economics also deals heavily with boom and bust.
If you think boom and bust can be removed from the system your with Gordon Brown.

If you think that booms and busts are inevitable then its a good idea to have policies in place to deal with the busts. For example a welfare state that can support workers that are laid off during a down turn.

Thinking that using a Marxist critique of capitalism means that someone is in favour of a centrally planned economy is quite a large assumption. The central thrust of Marx is about freedom of workers from exploitation. Clearly you don't like Marx, so maybe Adam Smith is more your sort of economist

"capitalism makes workers as "stupid and ignorant as it is possible for a human creature to become."
The cyclical nature of prosperity was recognised long before Marx. Marx's contribution was to suggest that the busts were symptoms of a fundamental weakness of capitalism and would get progressively worse until capitalism collapsed. The fact that boom and bust was happening long before anything we could recognise as capitalism passed him by.

Sway

26,276 posts

194 months

Sunday 25th February 2018
quotequote all
Fittster said:
Sway said:
Fittster said:
Marx states that capitalism is unstable, how much laughter do people get from Gordon Brown's quote about banishing boom and bust? So you can't class Gordon Brown as a Marxist but those who think boom and bust are an inherit part of a capitalist system are signing up to a Marxist position.
Who's claimed Gordon Brown was a Marxist?

McDonnell however, clearly is. Self admitted.

Do you think many Scandinavian policitians (especially ones with a shot at being Chancellor) would call themselves Marxist, and want a planned economy?
I'm saying that Marx viewed boom and bust as inherent part of a capitalist economic model.

Marxism is a economic framework to analyse capitalism. If you use that framework one conclusion you will come to is capitalism is inherently unstable (boom and bust). I don't think there's anything particularly controversial there. Keynesian economics also deals heavily with boom and bust.
If you think boom and bust can be removed from the system your with Gordon Brown.

If you think that booms and busts are inevitable then its a good idea to have policies in place to deal with the busts. For example a welfare state that can support workers that are laid off during a down turn.

Thinking that using a Marxist critique of capitalism means that someone is in favour of a centrally planned economy is quite a large assumption. The central thrust of Marx is about freedom of workers from exploitation. Clearly you don't like Marx, so maybe Adam Smith is more your sort of economist

"capitalism makes workers as "stupid and ignorant as it is possible for a human creature to become."
I'm quite happy to accept that capitalism is cyclical. You are arguing against a position I haven't put forward. We have mechanisms to help manage the 'busts', as well as the booms - and we'll gain further capability once we've left the EU.

I'm making no assumption about McDonnell's desire for a centrally planned economy, he says it himself in that video. He is a true Marxist - no socialist, as per the Scandinavians, but a communist.

Do you support McDonnell's aim?

If not, why keep deflecting?

MWM3

1,763 posts

122 months

Sunday 25th February 2018
quotequote all
Surely Marxism gets rid of the Boom and leaves us just with the Bust

The Dangerous Elk

4,642 posts

77 months

Sunday 25th February 2018
quotequote all
The Dangerous Elk said:
The Dangerous Elk said:
I agree, he made an error and he should have publicly apologised for it. I am glad he had the balls and the self-respect to admit in public he was wrong.

Now, do you think the little Lamb should ?

Simple question, will you answer it?
I will bet you will not. (which will show you for what you really are)
MX5, are you going to answer or not ?

jmorgan

36,010 posts

284 months

Sunday 25th February 2018
quotequote all
MWM3 said:
Surely Marxism gets rid of the Boom and leaves us just with the Bust
Yeah bust of St Corbyn.

Too Drunk to Funk

804 posts

77 months

Sunday 25th February 2018
quotequote all
The irony being it was Team Leave who betrayed the country.
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