Jeremy Corbyn Vol. 2
Discussion
e has just appointed a former member of the Communist Party, who has previously defended Stalin and expressed solidarity with North Korea to help shape his Brexit strategy
www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/feb/26/jeremy-co...
www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/feb/26/jeremy-co...
Not-The-Messiah said:
He's the UK version of Trump in away.
Russia collusion allegations and he and all his fan club say exactly the same thing as Trump and his supporters "Fake news".
Now he's going
Corbyn " I going to negotiate a great deal".
"What is this deal going to be and how are you going to achieve it?"
Corbyn " It's going to be a great deal"
"Yes but"
Corbyn " a great deal don't worry"
He's not 'that' good. Corbyn doesn't even understand what he's saying, he's just repeating what Keir Starmer has told him to say - and sold out to a large proportion of Labour voters in the process.Russia collusion allegations and he and all his fan club say exactly the same thing as Trump and his supporters "Fake news".
Now he's going
Corbyn " I going to negotiate a great deal".
"What is this deal going to be and how are you going to achieve it?"
Corbyn " It's going to be a great deal"
"Yes but"
Corbyn " a great deal don't worry"
Labour are cockahoop about this announcement, and they don't even understand why. Just see Rebecca Long Bailey and Lisa Nandy on the Daily Politics today. f
king incredible.Cobnapint said:
Not-The-Messiah said:
He's the UK version of Trump in away.
Russia collusion allegations and he and all his fan club say exactly the same thing as Trump and his supporters "Fake news".
Now he's going
Corbyn " I going to negotiate a great deal".
"What is this deal going to be and how are you going to achieve it?"
Corbyn " It's going to be a great deal"
"Yes but"
Corbyn " a great deal don't worry"
He's not 'that' good. Corbyn doesn't even understand what he's saying, he's just repeating what Keir Starmer has told him to say - and sold out to a large proportion of Labour voters in the process.Russia collusion allegations and he and all his fan club say exactly the same thing as Trump and his supporters "Fake news".
Now he's going
Corbyn " I going to negotiate a great deal".
"What is this deal going to be and how are you going to achieve it?"
Corbyn " It's going to be a great deal"
"Yes but"
Corbyn " a great deal don't worry"
Labour are cockahoop about this announcement, and they don't even understand why. Just see Rebecca Long Bailey and Lisa Nandy on the Daily Politics today. f
king incredible.Rubbish.
Almost 70% Labour voters voted remain
See my earlier post showing more labour leave voters currently back SM and CU than oppose it.
edh said:
"large proportion"?
Rubbish.
Almost 70% Labour voters voted remain
See my earlier post showing more labour leave voters currently back SM and CU than oppose it.
I don't think you understand the meaning of large proportion he didn't say majority. Rubbish.
Almost 70% Labour voters voted remain
See my earlier post showing more labour leave voters currently back SM and CU than oppose it.
Even if it's only 30% that's still nearly 4 million labour voters which in anyone's book is a large proportion.
Not-The-Messiah said:
edh said:
"large proportion"?
Rubbish.
Almost 70% Labour voters voted remain
See my earlier post showing more labour leave voters currently back SM and CU than oppose it.
I don't think you understand the meaning of large proportion he didn't say majority. Rubbish.
Almost 70% Labour voters voted remain
See my earlier post showing more labour leave voters currently back SM and CU than oppose it.
Even if it's only 30% that's still nearly 4 million labour voters which in anyone's book is a large proportion.
30% of Labour voters voted leave. Less than 30% of labour leave voters oppose SM and CU membership (note JC has announced CU policy only) so I think we can assume that opposition to CU only will be lower.
So we're down to perhaps 5-8%. That isn't a large proportion.
Tell me how many Tory voters voted to remain, how many Tory voters favour continued CU and SM membership now... I wonder if that is a larger number?
edh said:
Not-The-Messiah said:
edh said:
"large proportion"?
Rubbish.
Almost 70% Labour voters voted remain
See my earlier post showing more labour leave voters currently back SM and CU than oppose it.
I don't think you understand the meaning of large proportion he didn't say majority. Rubbish.
Almost 70% Labour voters voted remain
See my earlier post showing more labour leave voters currently back SM and CU than oppose it.
Even if it's only 30% that's still nearly 4 million labour voters which in anyone's book is a large proportion.
30% of Labour voters voted leave. Less than 30% of labour leave voters oppose SM and CU membership (note JC has announced CU policy only) so I think we can assume that opposition to CU only will be lower.
So we're down to perhaps 5-8%. That isn't a large proportion.
Tell me how many Tory voters voted to remain, how many Tory voters favour continued CU and SM membership now... I wonder if that is a larger number?
Zod said:
edh said:
Not-The-Messiah said:
edh said:
"large proportion"?
Rubbish.
Almost 70% Labour voters voted remain
See my earlier post showing more labour leave voters currently back SM and CU than oppose it.
I don't think you understand the meaning of large proportion he didn't say majority. Rubbish.
Almost 70% Labour voters voted remain
See my earlier post showing more labour leave voters currently back SM and CU than oppose it.
Even if it's only 30% that's still nearly 4 million labour voters which in anyone's book is a large proportion.
30% of Labour voters voted leave. Less than 30% of labour leave voters oppose SM and CU membership (note JC has announced CU policy only) so I think we can assume that opposition to CU only will be lower.
So we're down to perhaps 5-8%. That isn't a large proportion.
Tell me how many Tory voters voted to remain, how many Tory voters favour continued CU and SM membership now... I wonder if that is a larger number?
I think Labour can win without UKIP voters.
I don't think the current policy alienates many Labour voters
Tory Brexit policy is strongly opposed to the wishes of a "large proportion" of Tory voters
How many voters will switch from their 2017 positions based on Brexit related issues is another matter.
Only time will tell Ed if you are right or not.
Still doesn't change the fact however that Labour went into the last election making fantastical Brexit promises which now are becoming clear to have either been bold faced lies or a delusion.
I will give them this, I believe it was a delusion but based on Corbyn himself being a long term Brexiteer, unfortunately surrounded by a PLP which is overwhelmingly pro-EU. In a sense I feel sorry for him, he is finding out the hard way what collective responsibility means and having to put to one side many of the things he has fought on and believed for decades. First it was the nuclear deterrent and bit by bit now it will be the roll back of Brexit.
Still doesn't change the fact however that Labour went into the last election making fantastical Brexit promises which now are becoming clear to have either been bold faced lies or a delusion.
I will give them this, I believe it was a delusion but based on Corbyn himself being a long term Brexiteer, unfortunately surrounded by a PLP which is overwhelmingly pro-EU. In a sense I feel sorry for him, he is finding out the hard way what collective responsibility means and having to put to one side many of the things he has fought on and believed for decades. First it was the nuclear deterrent and bit by bit now it will be the roll back of Brexit.
edh said:
"large proportion"?
Rubbish.
Almost 70% Labour voters voted remain
See my earlier post showing more labour leave voters currently back SM and CU than oppose it.
In making your bald statement that 70% of Labour voters voted remain, you are confusing the referendum votes of Labour Voters and Labour Party Members.Rubbish.
Almost 70% Labour voters voted remain
See my earlier post showing more labour leave voters currently back SM and CU than oppose it.
Most Labour voting constituencies voted LEAVE - particularly if you were to add back former Labour voters who voted UKIP in 2015.
Where is my source for this statement?
The acknowledged expert in the field is Dr Chris Henretty who prepared detailed reconciliation of referendum results by constituency rather than local authority 'area'.
http://ukandeu.ac.uk/the-eu-referendum-how-did-wes...
I suggest you look at his analysis, by constituency:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1b71SDKPFbk...
This U turn, sorry Policy shift, by Corbyn has nothing to do with his life long and deep routed anti EU position but everything to do with short term political ambition. A true man of principle, not.
I suspect this is a desperate effort to force a stalemate in the commons and hence a GE, before he either gets outsted or fades into oblivion. I have a feeling this is his last roll of the dice for power. However I don't doubt he will carp from the sidelines as Brexit progresses past this point, loathsome man.
I suspect this is a desperate effort to force a stalemate in the commons and hence a GE, before he either gets outsted or fades into oblivion. I have a feeling this is his last roll of the dice for power. However I don't doubt he will carp from the sidelines as Brexit progresses past this point, loathsome man.
It appears that Corbyn is quite adamant that Labour will be able to negotiate a customs union that gives us free access to the EU markets for all our industries, that will give us a veto on any arrangements we do not agree with, will give us the ability to give state support to whatever industries we want to, will enable us to renationalise any industries we want to at whatever compensation level for overseas owners we think apropriate and if we don't get this agreement ........
We will continue to negotiate until we do. Poor Lorna K on BBC just now was trying to get to the nitty gritty and all Corbyn would say was " We will negotiate" .
Plan B should the EU, which they would, tell us to go away empty handed , is to " negotiate with them" still more about Plan A.
Turns out there is no plan B.
The man is a complete idiot. His team are idiots, and they think their voters are idiots. I reckon their voters are more savvy then they realise.
With the Momenttum controlled Labour party the lunatics really have have taken over the asylum and completely forgotten the grass roots voters.
UKIP mk 2 anybody. Strapline "This is what you get when you trust Labour".
We will continue to negotiate until we do. Poor Lorna K on BBC just now was trying to get to the nitty gritty and all Corbyn would say was " We will negotiate" .
Plan B should the EU, which they would, tell us to go away empty handed , is to " negotiate with them" still more about Plan A.
Turns out there is no plan B.
The man is a complete idiot. His team are idiots, and they think their voters are idiots. I reckon their voters are more savvy then they realise.
With the Momenttum controlled Labour party the lunatics really have have taken over the asylum and completely forgotten the grass roots voters.
UKIP mk 2 anybody. Strapline "This is what you get when you trust Labour".
HarryW said:
This U turn, sorry Policy shift, by Corbyn has nothing to do with his life long and deep routed anti EU position but everything to do with short term political ambition. A true man of principle, not.
I suspect this is a desperate effort to force a stalemate in the commons and hence a GE, before he either gets outsted or fades into oblivion. I have a feeling this is his last roll of the dice for power. However I don't doubt he will carp from the sidelines as Brexit progresses past this point, loathsome man.
Nutshell.I suspect this is a desperate effort to force a stalemate in the commons and hence a GE, before he either gets outsted or fades into oblivion. I have a feeling this is his last roll of the dice for power. However I don't doubt he will carp from the sidelines as Brexit progresses past this point, loathsome man.
I think he's blown it, apparently any Labour voter who voted Leave who is disappointed in his 'u' turn needs to "get a life", genuine comment from Corbyn!
alfaspecial said:
edh said:
"large proportion"?
Rubbish.
Almost 70% Labour voters voted remain
See my earlier post showing more labour leave voters currently back SM and CU than oppose it.
In making your bald statement that 70% of Labour voters voted remain, you are confusing the referendum votes of Labour Voters and Labour Party Members.Rubbish.
Almost 70% Labour voters voted remain
See my earlier post showing more labour leave voters currently back SM and CU than oppose it.
Most Labour voting constituencies voted LEAVE - particularly if you were to add back former Labour voters who voted UKIP in 2015.
Where is my source for this statement?
The acknowledged expert in the field is Dr Chris Henretty who prepared detailed reconciliation of referendum results by constituency rather than local authority 'area'.
http://ukandeu.ac.uk/the-eu-referendum-how-did-wes...
I suggest you look at his analysis, by constituency:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1b71SDKPFbk...
I'm right.
You confuse Labour voters and Labour constituencies. I'm happy to accept the figures you've quoted.
"However, electoral geography can be deceptive. A majority of voters in many Labour-held constituencies may have backed Leave, but that does not necessarily mean that most Labour supporters voted that way. The pro-Leave majorities in such seats could have been accounted for by the behaviour of those who voted for one of Labour’s (many) opponents or, indeed, did not vote at all. After all, Labour won the support of more than half the electorate in just two constituencies in the 2015 general election.
In fact, all of the survey evidence on how individual voters behaved on June 23 indicates that a clear majority of those who voted Labour in 2015 and who turned out for the referendum backed Remain. According to the largest such survey, based on a panel of over 30,000 voters interviewed on behalf of the British Election Study (BES), no fewer than 71 per cent of 2015 election Labour voters voted for Remain."
https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/201...
Yougov puts the numbers a bit lower
https://yougov.co.uk/news/2016/06/27/how-britain-v...
don'tbesilly said:
HarryW said:
This U turn, sorry Policy shift, by Corbyn has nothing to do with his life long and deep routed anti EU position but everything to do with short term political ambition. A true man of principle, not.
I suspect this is a desperate effort to force a stalemate in the commons and hence a GE, before he either gets outsted or fades into oblivion. I have a feeling this is his last roll of the dice for power. However I don't doubt he will carp from the sidelines as Brexit progresses past this point, loathsome man.
Nutshell.I suspect this is a desperate effort to force a stalemate in the commons and hence a GE, before he either gets outsted or fades into oblivion. I have a feeling this is his last roll of the dice for power. However I don't doubt he will carp from the sidelines as Brexit progresses past this point, loathsome man.
I think he's blown it, apparently any Labour voter who voted Leave who is disappointed in his 'u' turn needs to "get a life", genuine comment from Corbyn!
He's effectively throwing Brexit under the bus in an attempt to trigger a GE that he thinks he's going to win. So much for honest politics. Just when you think Labour can't sink any lower....
Tony427 said:
It appears that Corbyn is quite adamant that Labour will be able to negotiate a customs union that gives us free access to the EU markets for all our industries, that will give us a veto on any arrangements we do not agree with, will give us the ability to give state support to whatever industries we want to, will enable us to renationalise any industries we want to at whatever compensation level for overseas owners we think apropriate and if we don't get this agreement ........
We will continue to negotiate until we do. Poor Lorna K on BBC just now was trying to get to the nitty gritty and all Corbyn would say was " We will negotiate" .
Plan B should the EU, which they would, tell us to go away empty handed , is to " negotiate with them" still more about Plan A.
Turns out there is no plan B.
The man is a complete idiot. His team are idiots, and they think their voters are idiots. I reckon their voters are more savvy then they realise.
With the Momenttum controlled Labour party the lunatics really have have taken over the asylum and completely forgotten the grass roots voters.
UKIP mk 2 anybody. Strapline "This is what you get when you trust Labour".
If anything the only sign of sense is that they seem aware that their voters are complete idiots. Other than that I think you overestimate their intellectual capacity. It could be a very astute move to force the Tories to ‘own’ Brexit. On the rash assumption that the Conservatives don’t implode before we get there, Brexit will do harm, the only question is how much. Leaving the Conservatives to take the blame would improve his electoral chances enormously. We will continue to negotiate until we do. Poor Lorna K on BBC just now was trying to get to the nitty gritty and all Corbyn would say was " We will negotiate" .
Plan B should the EU, which they would, tell us to go away empty handed , is to " negotiate with them" still more about Plan A.
Turns out there is no plan B.
The man is a complete idiot. His team are idiots, and they think their voters are idiots. I reckon their voters are more savvy then they realise.
With the Momenttum controlled Labour party the lunatics really have have taken over the asylum and completely forgotten the grass roots voters.
UKIP mk 2 anybody. Strapline "This is what you get when you trust Labour".
He won’t do that of course because he can’t implement his collectivisation and destruction of the U.K. economy whilst it is a member of the EU. Pesky European law getting in his way.
edh said:
I'm right.
You confuse Labour voters and Labour constituencies. I'm happy to accept the figures you've quoted.
"However, electoral geography can be deceptive. A majority of voters in many Labour-held constituencies may have backed Leave, but that does not necessarily mean that most Labour supporters voted that way. The pro-Leave majorities in such seats could have been accounted for by the behaviour of those who voted for one of Labour’s (many) opponents or, indeed, did not vote at all. After all, Labour won the support of more than half the electorate in just two constituencies in the 2015 general election.
In fact, all of the survey evidence on how individual voters behaved on June 23 indicates that a clear majority of those who voted Labour in 2015 and who turned out for the referendum backed Remain. According to the largest such survey, based on a panel of over 30,000 voters interviewed on behalf of the British Election Study (BES), no fewer than 71 per cent of 2015 election Labour voters voted for Remain."
https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/201...
Yougov puts the numbers a bit lower
https://yougov.co.uk/news/2016/06/27/how-britain-v...
No, you are wrong. The detailed analysis I quoted clearly shows that Labour Constituencies OUTSIDE OF THE LONDON AREA (and a few other urban areas) voted LEAVE by a significant margin. You confuse Labour voters and Labour constituencies. I'm happy to accept the figures you've quoted.
"However, electoral geography can be deceptive. A majority of voters in many Labour-held constituencies may have backed Leave, but that does not necessarily mean that most Labour supporters voted that way. The pro-Leave majorities in such seats could have been accounted for by the behaviour of those who voted for one of Labour’s (many) opponents or, indeed, did not vote at all. After all, Labour won the support of more than half the electorate in just two constituencies in the 2015 general election.
In fact, all of the survey evidence on how individual voters behaved on June 23 indicates that a clear majority of those who voted Labour in 2015 and who turned out for the referendum backed Remain. According to the largest such survey, based on a panel of over 30,000 voters interviewed on behalf of the British Election Study (BES), no fewer than 71 per cent of 2015 election Labour voters voted for Remain."
https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/201...
Yougov puts the numbers a bit lower
https://yougov.co.uk/news/2016/06/27/how-britain-v...
Cobnapint said:
Yep, spot on.
He's effectively throwing Brexit under the bus in an attempt to trigger a GE that he thinks he's going to win. So much for honest politics. Just when you think Labour can't sink any lower....
And he’s laughing at you as he does it. Can you see him laughing? He's effectively throwing Brexit under the bus in an attempt to trigger a GE that he thinks he's going to win. So much for honest politics. Just when you think Labour can't sink any lower....
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