Jeremy Corbyn Vol. 2
Discussion
Efbe said:
Gargamel said:
El stovey said:
Efbe said:
I am not trying to defend him, nor delusional.
I asked what the route cause of this theory that he is anti-semetic is.
I was offered the explanations that he hasn't said enough in response the anti-semitism in the labour ranks. coincidentally a minute later, the BBC had that story so I posted it.
therefore I am asking, is there more proof, or is this now finished, or is there something else I should realise about this situation?
Your questions seem entirely reasonable to me. He doesn’t seem obviously anti Semitic to me either.I asked what the route cause of this theory that he is anti-semetic is.
I was offered the explanations that he hasn't said enough in response the anti-semitism in the labour ranks. coincidentally a minute later, the BBC had that story so I posted it.
therefore I am asking, is there more proof, or is this now finished, or is there something else I should realise about this situation?
https://order-order.com/tag/anti-semitism/
However there are two instances in there, one of which he has praised an artist who painter a mural that was anti-semitic, and the other inviting someone who said something anti-semetic once to tea. However, no quotes, evidence or even names, so I can't go away and check on these.
On the other hand, I work with thousands of people, some are racist. I have been on nights out with people that I have later found out are incredibly racist. That doesn't make me racist though. I would expect a politicians job will be continuous invites, daily chats to people etc. I don't expect them to know everything about everyone they talk to.
Essentially if someone is to actually be anti-semetic, I want a bit more proof than... "there is an artist I won't name, that painted something that might or might not have been anti-semetic, that corbyn may or may not have once said something that may or may not have been complementary about, for which we have no idea of the circumstance, timeline, how well known this guy is/was etc etc."
The Dangerous Elk said:
apologists are nearly as bad as those that preach it
yes they are. but again, what is the point of just saying someone is something without bloody evidence?show us!
I will be quite happy to believe he is an anti-semite, but i'm not going to just take your word for it
The Dangerous Elk said:
Efbe said:
yes they are. but again, what is the point of just saying someone is something without bloody evidence?
show us!
I will be quite happy to believe he is an anti-semite, but i'm not going to just take your word for it
you are just blind to it.show us!
I will be quite happy to believe he is an anti-semite, but i'm not going to just take your word for it
The Dangerous Elk said:
Efbe said:
blind to what? I have yet to be shown anything yet, or is it ok just to throw around random accusations...
You would need a photo of him dropping gas tins into a shower before you said "he might be"each time you just reply with some bulls
t avoiding the question suggesting he HAS to be.You are either a complete idiot, or a troll.
Efbe said:
The Dangerous Elk said:
Efbe said:
blind to what? I have yet to be shown anything yet, or is it ok just to throw around random accusations...
You would need a photo of him dropping gas tins into a shower before you said "he might be"each time you just reply with some bulls
t avoiding the question suggesting he HAS to be.You are either a complete idiot, or a troll.
Efbe
He is a known supporter of the Palestinian cause, he has attended the funeral of a PLO terrorist, he has shared a platform with Palestinian groups, he was in two facebook groups which regularly spout and anti semitic views. He is a close friend of one of the founders of that group.
He has NOT apologised for his comments on the mural, just said he should have looked closer. Why not apologise if he caused offence ?
Now, I appreciate you can be anti zionist with being anti semitic, and you can dislike the Israeli government without by racist.
But, the evidence mounts up, and the continual news around this points pretty heavily to the fact the JC and Labour have a problem with anti antisemitism in the party.
well they do now anyway, as a number of Jewish organisation have openly accused the Labour Party of racism.
Gargamel said:
well they do now anyway, as a number of Jewish organisation have openly accused the Labour Party of racism.
Unusual as it is for me to say anything defending JC, the fact that he has been accused isn't decent evidence. Innocent until proven guilty even applies to scummy individuals like him.OTOH there's plenty elsewhere to support claims of anti semitism- he openly praises those who attack jews/Israel, acts as their apologist and endorses their cause.
http://www.jpost.com/Diaspora/Uproar-over-Corbyn-v...
Russian Troll Bot said:
I posted evidence on the previous page that he is happy to associate with them, which you decided to overlook. I can add a bit more of what this "honoured citizen" said though.
He didn’t overlook it. He decided that associating with someone that’s anti-Semitic doesn’t actually make Corbyn anti-Semitic. He certainly sounds pro Palestine and anti jewish though. Obviously there’s a multitude of reasons politicians should be more careful who they associate with. The fact that people can assume you agree with them is one.
Do you have the same views as everyone you associate with? I don’t.
As a politican, or actually as a human being, I wouldn’t be associating with terrorists and anti semites though.
El stovey said:
Russian Troll Bot said:
I posted evidence on the previous page that he is happy to associate with them, which you decided to overlook. I can add a bit more of what this "honoured citizen" said though.
He didn’t overlook it. He decided that associating with someone that’s anti-Semitic doesn’t actually make Corbyn anti-Semitic. He certainly sounds pro Palestine and anti jewish though. Obviously there’s a multitude of reasons politicians should be more careful who they associate with. The fact that people can assume you agree with them is one.
Do you have the same views as everyone you associate with? I don’t.
As a politican, or actually as a human being, I wouldn’t be associating with terrorists and anti semites though.
Gargamel said:
Efbe
He is a known supporter of the Palestinian cause, he has attended the funeral of a PLO terrorist, he has shared a platform with Palestinian groups, he was in two facebook groups which regularly spout and anti semitic views. He is a close friend of one of the founders of that group.
He has NOT apologised for his comments on the mural, just said he should have looked closer. Why not apologise if he caused offence ?
Now, I appreciate you can be anti zionist with being anti semitic, and you can dislike the Israeli government without by racist.
But, the evidence mounts up, and the continual news around this points pretty heavily to the fact the JC and Labour have a problem with anti antisemitism in the party.
well they do now anyway, as a number of Jewish organisation have openly accused the Labour Party of racism.
Thanks Gargamel, this is the first useful post in these claims.He is a known supporter of the Palestinian cause, he has attended the funeral of a PLO terrorist, he has shared a platform with Palestinian groups, he was in two facebook groups which regularly spout and anti semitic views. He is a close friend of one of the founders of that group.
He has NOT apologised for his comments on the mural, just said he should have looked closer. Why not apologise if he caused offence ?
Now, I appreciate you can be anti zionist with being anti semitic, and you can dislike the Israeli government without by racist.
But, the evidence mounts up, and the continual news around this points pretty heavily to the fact the JC and Labour have a problem with anti antisemitism in the party.
well they do now anyway, as a number of Jewish organisation have openly accused the Labour Party of racism.
i'm not sure I can associate being a supporter of the palestinian cause with being anti-semetic. As far as I can tell Israel's actions are pretty s
t.The mural is a red herring too. His comments were pretty much nothing, and I couldn't tell the mural was anti-semetic. just looks like crap graffiti to me.
However, the PLO funeral may be interesting. He seems to have attended a wreath laying commemorating the bombing of the PLO headquarters in 1985. In the same cemetery was the grave of the Atef Bseiso who was head of intelligence for the PLO during the Munich Bombing, and so must be partially responsible for it.
I have read about 20 news stories of what happened. they seem to fall into two camps, either a vaguely worded piece insinuating he placed a wreath on this guys grave, but not specifically saying it, and others equally vaguely worded saying it was a commemoration of an attack on the PLO and the wreath laying was nothing to do with Bseiso's grave.
Whether he should or should not have been supporting the PLO is a bit more of an obvious issue with him. I really don't think it's even a slightly sensible idea to be doing that kind of s
t. But, this does not make it anti-semetic.In the back of my mind, these anti-semetic slurs seem to be aimed at him supporting opposition to Israel.
Now I think it's a really s
t idea for Corbyn to be so involved in the Israel-Palestine conflict. It's obviously something he feels strongly about but it has put him in a really bad situation politically.It's enough for me to think he would make a crap leader, but there is nothing to suggest he is anti-semetic.
...so moving on from that...
I'm sure someone mentioned facebook groups. what was that about?
Rovinghawk said:
Gargamel said:
well they do now anyway, as a number of Jewish organisation have openly accused the Labour Party of racism.
Unusual as it is for me to say anything defending JC, the fact that he has been accused isn't decent evidence. Innocent until proven guilty even applies to scummy individuals like him.OTOH there's plenty elsewhere to support claims of anti semitism- he openly praises those who attack jews/Israel, acts as their apologist and endorses their cause.
http://www.jpost.com/Diaspora/Uproar-over-Corbyn-v...
All kinds of people, including John Major, rushed in to defend it, saying effectively the UK was trying to bring Libya into the fold and gain influence over an rogue individual. Blair was genuinely trying to negotiate, yes there were undertones of defence sales, and oil deals, but by and large it was clear, Blair didn't share the values of Gaddafi, and was trying to "make a change"
Do you think that is what Corbyn is doing when he invite IRA terrorists to the House of Commons, Attends Memorials to PLO fighteers, or invites extremists from Palestine who have expressed multiple times their ambition to wipe the Jews out in Isreal ?
Whilst I fully agree accusation isn't evidence, my point was simply once a group is openly calling you racist and anti-semitic, then if you are trying to lead a party that has tried to claim the high ground on identity politics, then you have got a big problem.
Gargamel said:
Do you remember when the was a massive news story about Blair shaking hands with Gaddafi ?
All kinds of people, including John Major, rushed in to defend it, saying effectively the UK was trying to bring Libya into the fold and gain influence over an rogue individual. Blair was genuinely trying to negotiate, yes there were undertones of defence sales, and oil deals, but by and large it was clear, Blair didn't share the values of Gaddafi, and was trying to "make a change"
Do you think that is what Corbyn is doing when he invite IRA terrorists to the House of Commons, Attends Memorials to PLO fighteers, or invites extremists from Palestine who have expressed multiple times their ambition to wipe the Jews out in Isreal ?
Whilst I fully agree accusation isn't evidence, my point was simply once a group is openly calling you racist and anti-semitic, then if you are trying to lead a party that has tried to claim the high ground on identity politics, then you have got a big problem.
I think the important difference that eludes Momentum/Corbynistas is that when Corbyn did these things he was an irrelevant backbench MP. When Blair sent his love letters to Gaddafi he was PM. When senior government officials were meeting the IRA in secret they were doing so at the behest of HMG. Corbyns actions were not sanctioned by his party either in opposition or in government, he was an irrelevance for 32 years of his ministerial career.All kinds of people, including John Major, rushed in to defend it, saying effectively the UK was trying to bring Libya into the fold and gain influence over an rogue individual. Blair was genuinely trying to negotiate, yes there were undertones of defence sales, and oil deals, but by and large it was clear, Blair didn't share the values of Gaddafi, and was trying to "make a change"
Do you think that is what Corbyn is doing when he invite IRA terrorists to the House of Commons, Attends Memorials to PLO fighteers, or invites extremists from Palestine who have expressed multiple times their ambition to wipe the Jews out in Isreal ?
Whilst I fully agree accusation isn't evidence, my point was simply once a group is openly calling you racist and anti-semitic, then if you are trying to lead a party that has tried to claim the high ground on identity politics, then you have got a big problem.
Gargamel said:
Do you think that is what Corbyn is doing when he invite IRA terrorists to the House of Commons, Attends Memorials to PLO fighteers, or invites extremists from Palestine who have expressed multiple times their ambition to wipe the Jews out in Isreal ?
I think he's a scummy little turd who supports some vile people.Gargamel said:
I fully agree accusation isn't evidence
That was my point- as a matter of principle I try to apply it to those I detest just as much as those I support. There's plenty of good evidence against him without lowering the bar.
Efbe said:
Whether he should or should not have been supporting the PLO is a bit more of an obvious issue with him. I really don't think it's even a slightly sensible idea to be doing that kind of st. But, this does not make it anti-semetic.
I think not when the PLO was a secular organisation. Hamas and Hezbollah being more religious in creation/mode. The 'friends' thing, which he regrets but does not apologise over.t. But, this does not make it anti-semetic.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_positions_...
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