Discussion
sidicks said:
citizensm1th said:
i took it they were both talking about rovinghawk ,so it might be your sense of entitlement talking
1. Derek responded to my post2. Midenginecoupe referred to most people on NP&E
So your post (and his) doesn't make sense.
citizensm1th said:
evidently more than you do
I'm sure midenginecoupe will be along to explain who his comments were targeted at, and who is included in 'most on NP&E'...citizensm1th said:
anyhow as riveting as this conversation has been i am going out for a lovely meal with my wife. keep digging that hole
Enjoy!greygoose said:
You do come across as slightly bitter to anyone with a public sector pension.
1. I'm aware of the cost / value of them, unlike many who are in receipt of them! The cost affects every taxpayer and is a massive burden on current and future generations.2. I've said that some people may deserve them, but by no means all.
3. I believe that public spending should be focussed on providing public services not on unduly enriching public sector workers, where many of those public sector workers are already earning as much or more than those in equivalent private sector jobs.
I'd be interested in which of the above points you take issue with!
Edited by sidicks on Saturday 24th June 17:54
sidicks said:
!
"No one was forcing you . . ."Was my post so obscure that you can't see that is what I'm talking about? No one owes RH a living. Just because he decided to work long hours and work hard does not give him any entitlement. By simple association, that goes for me, as well as everyone else.
If you want to make a point in an argument it is best not to agree with the person you are arguing with.
Also, I’m not sure why you think I don’t value the pension I paid, in real terms, around 15% of gross for. Of course I value it.
Derek Smith said:
"No one was forcing you . . ."
Was my post so obscure that you can't see that is what I'm talking about? No one owes RH a living. Just because he decided to work long hours and work hard does not give him any entitlement. By simple association, that goes for me, as well as everyone else.
Is he saying he deserves a living? I think it's quite clear that he gets paid for providing a service to his clients, who voluntarily chose to use him. It seems he's earned his money and should be allowed to spend it, not have it taken for those that choose not to work.Was my post so obscure that you can't see that is what I'm talking about? No one owes RH a living. Just because he decided to work long hours and work hard does not give him any entitlement. By simple association, that goes for me, as well as everyone else.
Derek Smith said:
If you want to make a point in an argument it is best not to agree with the person you are arguing with.
Point missed.Derek Smith said:
Also, I’m not sure why you think I don’t value the pension I paid, in real terms, around 15% of gross for. Of course I value it.
Good job the rest of us paid the other 35%...Edited by sidicks on Saturday 24th June 19:12
Derek Smith said:
"No one was forcing you . . ."
Was my post so obscure that you can't see that is what I'm talking about? No one owes RH a living. Just because he decided to work long hours and work hard does not give him any entitlement. By simple association, that goes for me, as well as everyone else.
If you want to make a point in an argument it is best not to agree with the person you are arguing with.
Not if you just want to argue for the sake of it. :Was my post so obscure that you can't see that is what I'm talking about? No one owes RH a living. Just because he decided to work long hours and work hard does not give him any entitlement. By simple association, that goes for me, as well as everyone else.
If you want to make a point in an argument it is best not to agree with the person you are arguing with.
Anyway, what has any of this to do with Theresa May?
Derek Smith said:
You think that 'ordinary' employed people don't work hard and long?
I worked all but three days a month, I worked long hours. I made sacrifices but had I had one more child I could have claimed supplementary benefit. I also risked my health, and am now paying the penalty. I got beaten a few times. So can you see why I feel your post is patronising?
Income is not directly proportional to how hard or long one works. Perhaps redistribution of wealth is one way of redressing the balance.
Um... you do realise that the top 10% of earners pay the lions share of your pension, NHS bills, salary in the public sector and your kids education? Those powerfully built company directors do have their wealth redistributed through the tax system.I worked all but three days a month, I worked long hours. I made sacrifices but had I had one more child I could have claimed supplementary benefit. I also risked my health, and am now paying the penalty. I got beaten a few times. So can you see why I feel your post is patronising?
Income is not directly proportional to how hard or long one works. Perhaps redistribution of wealth is one way of redressing the balance.
And before the easily confused start bleating on about tax avoidance, it's pure fantasy land to suggest that 'the rich' don't pay tax. The governments' own figures show that the top 1% - you know, the really rich who have smart accountants and holiday homes in the Cayman islands - pay three times more in tax than the entire bottom 50% of earners. It's a great narrative that Lilly Allen and other student debaters perpetuate that somehow those evil rich people swan through life without paying anything - but there are plenty of studies that show it's simply not true.
You can take a look at economies around the world, and quickly see that all of those that attempt to create 'equality' in the way you (and Corbyn) suggest are, without exception basket cases. Right up to the point that it went completely pear shaped, Venezuela was being held up as a shining example of how it could be done by the left. Economists have written long and boring studies showing that if you allow people to excel, they generate wealth way beyond their individual capacity - and that wealth doesn't just trickle down through taxes, it pours down in the shape of successful businesses that service the whole economy with goods and services.
Bill Gates - one of the richest men in the world - didn't come out of Russia. And you know what? If you cannot understand how much value has been created from the computer revolution, astronomically more than his personal fortune, you really are doomed to repeat the mistakes that have people in real poverty in Venezuela, Cuba and other 'equal' societies.
Mr GrimNasty said:
BBC bias at its best 'Corbyn draws crowds at Glastonbury'.
Yer, not like they weren't already there and didn't have much choice but to listen to his delusional rantings.
Never been to Glastonbury, have you mate? It's not an actual concentration camp for lefties where the inmates have to stand to attention for the commandant, no matter how much you'd like it to be.Yer, not like they weren't already there and didn't have much choice but to listen to his delusional rantings.
Has anyone blamed her for the Bethnal Green fire yet? Gotta be entirely her fault, she has been in for a year.
Has Corby visited with his choir yet to make her look worse while she is busy running the country and sorting Brexit while he was at Glastonbury? Can Abbott count the number of floors that the flat was on? Has Boris a clue about how this impacts the content of the Queen's speech?
This country is going to thedogs media.
Has Corby visited with his choir yet to make her look worse while she is busy running the country and sorting Brexit while he was at Glastonbury? Can Abbott count the number of floors that the flat was on? Has Boris a clue about how this impacts the content of the Queen's speech?
This country is going to the
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