Discussion
Derek Smith said:
That's idiotic. You don't know me and you obviously don't know my political beliefs. You seem to invent things to make your point.
She ruined the police service, and not for any reason other than personal ambition. You believe all the spin it seems. Just wait until there's another series of metropolitan riots. Mind you, you don't have to. Have a chat to your local bobby. Oh, no, that's right. There aren't any. The police pay and conditions were attacked. The police had no way of fighting back. They are not allowed to join a union so are stuck with whatever the HomSec demands. She kicked them when they could not defend their pay and conditions.
'Attacked' or just made more affordable, following a decade of public overspend? She ruined the police service, and not for any reason other than personal ambition. You believe all the spin it seems. Just wait until there's another series of metropolitan riots. Mind you, you don't have to. Have a chat to your local bobby. Oh, no, that's right. There aren't any. The police pay and conditions were attacked. The police had no way of fighting back. They are not allowed to join a union so are stuck with whatever the HomSec demands. She kicked them when they could not defend their pay and conditions.
Is this the defintion where salaries that increase each and every year (but maybe not as much as inflation) equates to being 'attacked'?
And yet still those massively expensive benefits continue...
Derek Smith said:
You criticise me. OK, I have little regard for your opinion. But that's opting out of the argument. I criticised May because of her record. That's what you should do, or rather try. You do know why she was called submarine in her time in the HO, don't you?
What has the woman done? Nothing positive.
I did not say the DUP were terrorists. You did. I don't remember the labour party entering into a coalition with anyone, so I saw no reason to criticise.
She's not the devil. She's inept, not something the devil has been criticised for. She's damaged the country at a time when we needed a strong government. We don't need to know why decisions are made. All we can judge by are results. And that's hardly May's strong suit.
It's not me blinded by political beliefs.
What has the woman done? Nothing positive.
I did not say the DUP were terrorists. You did. I don't remember the labour party entering into a coalition with anyone, so I saw no reason to criticise.
She's not the devil. She's inept, not something the devil has been criticised for. She's damaged the country at a time when we needed a strong government. We don't need to know why decisions are made. All we can judge by are results. And that's hardly May's strong suit.
It's not me blinded by political beliefs.
Edited by sidicks on Saturday 15th July 22:52
Derek Smith said:
I too think it is vital what we call it what it is. It's a coalition. Just because the tory government invented a phrase to replace 'coalition government' doesn't make it so. ...
It's not a Tory invented phrase Derek. And it is something real....whether you like it or not 
(tbh I agree she is inept. But the alternatives at present are not pleasant - I doubt she will be in power for much more than 2 more years).
Derek Smith said:
That's idiotic. You don't know me and you obviously don't know my political beliefs. You seem to invent things to make your point.
I dip in and out of these forums, so I definitely don't know you - but even so, when I see your name next to a post, I've got a pretty strong idea of what to expect. 
Why are all you lot starting on Derek, he's right that she was a bit rubbish as Home Secretary and reduced her majority hugely. Opting to throw personal insults at him because he described the deal as a coalition instead of confidence and supply is a bit pedantic,
I voted for May and she's been a disaster. Nothing wrong with admitting that your team are doing a terrible job when they clearly are. She screwed up the election, lost her majority against all odds and has made countless bad judgements since.
I'd rather she won than Corbyn but It was a pretty poor choice to have to make. Some of you lot slavishly support anything the conservatives do and it just makes people dismiss you as dogmatic robots. She's clearly made a lot of mistakes,
She's now leading us into Brexit (that she didn't want) whilst her own party are looking to get rid of her at the nearest opportunity. Even you most vocal conservatives must admit that this is a very poor situation for the country to be in.
I voted for May and she's been a disaster. Nothing wrong with admitting that your team are doing a terrible job when they clearly are. She screwed up the election, lost her majority against all odds and has made countless bad judgements since.
I'd rather she won than Corbyn but It was a pretty poor choice to have to make. Some of you lot slavishly support anything the conservatives do and it just makes people dismiss you as dogmatic robots. She's clearly made a lot of mistakes,
She's now leading us into Brexit (that she didn't want) whilst her own party are looking to get rid of her at the nearest opportunity. Even you most vocal conservatives must admit that this is a very poor situation for the country to be in.
Edited by anonymous-user on Saturday 15th July 23:29
El stovey said:
Why are all you lot starting on Derek, he's right that she was a bit rubbish as Home Secretary and reduced her majority hugely. Opting to throw personal insults at him because he described the deal as a coalition instead of confidence and supply is a bit pedantic,
He did a bit more than that, he repeatedly insisted that there was a Coalition, which is fundamentally wrong.So if he's going to write nonsense, he shouldn't be surprised if he gets picked up on it.
El Stovey said:
I voted for May and she's been a disaster. Nothing wrong with admitting that your team are doing a terrible job when they clearly are. She screwed up the election, lost her majority against all odds and has made countless bad judgements since.
I'd rather she won than Corbyn but It was a pretty poor choice to have to make. Some of you lot slavishly support anything the conservatives do and it just makes people dismiss you as dogmatic robots. She's clearly made a lot of mistakes,
Not sure anyone is defending May, who certainly has been a disaster. Just emphasising that Derek's claims were fundamentally wrong and he would be anti-May regardless of what she did as PM. I'd rather she won than Corbyn but It was a pretty poor choice to have to make. Some of you lot slavishly support anything the conservatives do and it just makes people dismiss you as dogmatic robots. She's clearly made a lot of mistakes,
saaby93 said:
ot sure May has been a disaster
Her 'team' may have come up with some strange ideas , which she had to row them back from, but considering the position shes ended up, isnt she holding it pretty well?
Turning a majority government into a minority government is certainly a disaster, even if she did increase the overall Tory share of the vote.Her 'team' may have come up with some strange ideas , which she had to row them back from, but considering the position shes ended up, isnt she holding it pretty well?
But I agree that blame should be shared with her extremely poor advisors.
sidicks said:
saaby93 said:
Not sure May has been a disaster
Her 'team' may have come up with some strange ideas , which she had to row them back from, but considering the position shes ended up, isnt she holding it pretty well?
Turning a majority government into a minority government is certainly a disaster,Her 'team' may have come up with some strange ideas , which she had to row them back from, but considering the position shes ended up, isnt she holding it pretty well?
you saw the interview where she tried to pull back from it
sidicks said:
even if she did increase the overall Tory share of the vote.
that was a team effort too [quote=sidicksBut I agree that blame should be shared with her extremely poor advisors.
Why wouldnt this vote work out about the same?
Easily forseeable
May is a complete and utter lightweight who believes in nothing and sit's on the fence on every issue.
She was an avid remainer during the referendum, she f
ked up the GE(on purpose...?)and nearly let a Marxist government into power. This has damaged the UK very badly just before it enters one of it's most important and difficult negotiations in history.
She need's to either have the decency to step down or be sacked off asap. DD or JRM for PM!
She was an avid remainer during the referendum, she f
ked up the GE(on purpose...?)and nearly let a Marxist government into power. This has damaged the UK very badly just before it enters one of it's most important and difficult negotiations in history.She need's to either have the decency to step down or be sacked off asap. DD or JRM for PM!
amgmcqueen said:
May is a complete and utter lightweight who believes in nothing and sit's on the fence on every issue.
She was an avid remainer during the referendum, she fked up the GE(on purpose...?)and nearly let a Marxist government into power. This has damaged the UK very badly just before it enters one of it's most important and difficult negotiations in history.
She need's to either have the decency to step down or be sacked off asap. DD or JRM for PM!
Yes, because the PM resigning now that negotiations have actually started wouldn't have an utterly destabilising effect on the country, would it?She was an avid remainer during the referendum, she f
ked up the GE(on purpose...?)and nearly let a Marxist government into power. This has damaged the UK very badly just before it enters one of it's most important and difficult negotiations in history.She need's to either have the decency to step down or be sacked off asap. DD or JRM for PM!
That was sarcasm by the way.
May needs to keep the controversy to a minimum and let the negotiations unfold. No big changes, no sudden movements, just business as usual. And judging by the recent announcements from Labour (oh, btw, that student debt thing? we didn't mean it), the longer she stays in, the further the social media talking faces will talk themselves up their own backsides.
Tuna said:
Yes, because the PM resigning now that negotiations have actually started wouldn't have an utterly destabilising effect on the country, would it?
That was sarcasm by the way.
May needs to keep the controversy to a minimum and let the negotiations unfold. No big changes, no sudden movements, just business as usual. And judging by the recent announcements from Labour (oh, btw, that student debt thing? we didn't mean it), the longer she stays in, the further the social media talking faces will talk themselves up their own backsides.
You may be right. However, I cannot help but have a nagging doubt that under May, Brexit may still never happen.That was sarcasm by the way.
May needs to keep the controversy to a minimum and let the negotiations unfold. No big changes, no sudden movements, just business as usual. And judging by the recent announcements from Labour (oh, btw, that student debt thing? we didn't mean it), the longer she stays in, the further the social media talking faces will talk themselves up their own backsides.
Tuna said:
amgmcqueen said:
May is a complete and utter lightweight who believes in nothing and sit's on the fence on every issue.
She was an avid remainer during the referendum, she fked up the GE(on purpose...?)and nearly let a Marxist government into power. This has damaged the UK very badly just before it enters one of it's most important and difficult negotiations in history.
She need's to either have the decency to step down or be sacked off asap. DD or JRM for PM!
Yes, because the PM resigning now that negotiations have actually started wouldn't have an utterly destabilising effect on the country, would it?She was an avid remainer during the referendum, she f
ked up the GE(on purpose...?)and nearly let a Marxist government into power. This has damaged the UK very badly just before it enters one of it's most important and difficult negotiations in history.She need's to either have the decency to step down or be sacked off asap. DD or JRM for PM!
That was sarcasm by the way.
May needs to keep the controversy to a minimum and let the negotiations unfold. No big changes, no sudden movements, just business as usual. And judging by the recent announcements from Labour (oh, btw, that student debt thing? we didn't mean it), the longer she stays in, the further the social media talking faces will talk themselves up their own backsides.
chris watton said:
Tuna said:
Yes, because the PM resigning now that negotiations have actually started wouldn't have an utterly destabilising effect on the country, would it?
That was sarcasm by the way.
May needs to keep the controversy to a minimum and let the negotiations unfold. No big changes, no sudden movements, just business as usual. And judging by the recent announcements from Labour (oh, btw, that student debt thing? we didn't mean it), the longer she stays in, the further the social media talking faces will talk themselves up their own backsides.
You may be right. However, I cannot help but have a nagging doubt that under May, Brexit may still never happen.That was sarcasm by the way.
May needs to keep the controversy to a minimum and let the negotiations unfold. No big changes, no sudden movements, just business as usual. And judging by the recent announcements from Labour (oh, btw, that student debt thing? we didn't mean it), the longer she stays in, the further the social media talking faces will talk themselves up their own backsides.
Business as usual is 'genius' Boris coming out with another bonkers comment. Days rather than months. Idiot of the highest order.
Davis looking unprepared & out of his depth. You can see he knows he has been passed a poison chalice.
Its only a matter of time until it all goes tits up..
I reckon a senior person will soon say ' we all know this is mental, I wont keep up the pretence, I quit!'
Jimboka said:
She will do well to contain controversy with the 'misplaced' big ego's that she promoted to her cabinet.
Business as usual is 'genius' Boris coming out with another bonkers comment. Days rather than months. Idiot of the highest order.
Davis looking unprepared & out of his depth. You can see he knows he has been passed a poison chalice.
Its only a matter of time until it all goes tits up..
I reckon a senior person will soon say ' we all know this is mental, I wont keep up the pretence, I quit!'
The Tories are in a lot stronger position than the left believes. During the election the surge on the left was based on echo-chamber tales of economic disaster - but all the indicators are that nothing very exciting is happening. Our growth is expected to be inline with the rest of Europe this year, investment is still happening, and no matter what the public sector are saying about pay cuts, the private sector are sharply aware that their pay has fallen further behind. Business as usual is 'genius' Boris coming out with another bonkers comment. Days rather than months. Idiot of the highest order.
Davis looking unprepared & out of his depth. You can see he knows he has been passed a poison chalice.
Its only a matter of time until it all goes tits up..
I reckon a senior person will soon say ' we all know this is mental, I wont keep up the pretence, I quit!'
We're not exactly in the land of milk and honey, but any 'austerity' is pretty much of our own devising. Boris is a distraction to those that hate the Tories, but he's surprisingly loyal to the party for a maverick. Davis and co just have to get on with it - and though some commentators love to project, he's not actually there to talk the EU round to our way of thinking, just put the offers on the table and let the EU posture for a while.
Aside from the summer silly season, so long as there are no national events like we had in the last few months, all the Tories have to do is sit and smile for a while. For those with leadership ambitions it would be madness to jump in now, so we're going to see the long game being played - at least for the next couple of years.
Thorodin said:
In the apparent absence of criticism of my posts, sadly justified in my earlier rebuttal. I'd rather it wasn't so and take no pleasure from it. I wasn't alone, what would you have done?
I wouldn't have gone on some fantasy psychological dissection of why people think May was a pretty poor Home Secretary. If someone says "I think she was crap because of X, Y and Z", why not explain why they are wrong, rather than make a bunch of assumptions about their prejudices and then move on to a full scale ad hom?.As has been ably demonstrated on this thread, you don't have to be centre-left or a former police officer to think that May was a pretty unimpressive Home Sec. Half the coalition cabinet clearly thought that too. Similarly it is a challenge to spin her time in Number 10 as a great triumph.
It is also entirely reasonable to point out that an arrangement of confidence and supply is in many ways the same as a coalition, and if anything is worse than a coalition for the larger party as they are even more beholden to the tiddler as the tiddler has made no binding commitment and can easily walk away bringing the whole government crashing down. The government is effectively open to continuous blackmail and will be trying to give the DUP the impression that they're being handed sweeties at regular intervals to keep them on side. Every vote of any substance is potentially a confidence vote. A coalition would have had a shared Queen's Speech making the objectives and commitments transparent. What we've got instead is a hobbled government with virtually no legislative programme who are having to indulge in backroom deals with the DUP to survive. Tremendous.
ATG said:
It is also entirely reasonable to point out that an arrangement of confidence and supply is in many ways the same as a coalition.
No it isn't, it's total cobblers and the only reason I picked Mr. Smith up on it in the first place; I 'kin loathe May, but I try to stay within shouting range of the truth. Your mileage obviously varies.Einion Yrth said:
ATG said:
It is also entirely reasonable to point out that an arrangement of confidence and supply is in many ways the same as a coalition.
No it isn't, it's total cobblers and the only reason I picked Mr. Smith up on it in the first place; I 'kin loathe May, but I try to stay within shouting range of the truth. Your mileage obviously varies.Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff