Discussion
Ghibli said:
Jazzy Jag said:
They may hope to achieve exactly the same thing that every leave voter in the UK wants to achieve.
You also assume that FMOP is a good thing.
CYou also assume that FMOP is a good thing.
And what is that?
Be the first to spell out what you will be getting and then send it to May so that she know what to achieve.
Maybe the Irish people have similar aspirations but you seem to be of the opinion that they shouldn't have an opportunity to express them as they aren't capable of running their own country.
Is there a possibility May knew fine well what the reaction of the EU would be (as previously noted) but felt compelled to put it on the table in front of the world to deliberately get the unequivocal 'non' as a. a demonstration of what she's up against (ie 'I'm not a poor leader nor negotiator, they are intransigent' and b. to try to swing people's opinions further to accepting a 'hard' brexit or at least to prepare them for it while laying the groundwork for laying off the blame away from her doorstep?
Was this a genuine engagement or games[wo]manship?
Was this a genuine engagement or games[wo]manship?
Jazzy Jag said:
There were circa 17.2 million different reasons for voting leave, each one with a different list of things to achieve.
Maybe the Irish people have similar aspirations but you seem to be of the opinion that they shouldn't have an opportunity to express them as they aren't capable of running their own country.
Why not send all 17.2 million reasons to the ROI and see if you can convince them to have a referendum and be like us. Maybe the Irish people have similar aspirations but you seem to be of the opinion that they shouldn't have an opportunity to express them as they aren't capable of running their own country.
They are capable of running their own country and they don't need us telling them how to do so. If they want a referendum they will have one and they don't need 17.2 million reasons to have one because we don't know what we want and what we are going to get.
andy_s said:
Is there a possibility May knew fine well what the reaction of the EU would be (as previously noted) but felt compelled to put it on the table in front of the world to deliberately get the unequivocal 'non' as a. a demonstration of what she's up against (ie 'I'm not a poor leader nor negotiator, they are intransigent' and b. to try to swing people's opinions further to accepting a 'hard' brexit or at least to prepare them for it while laying the groundwork for laying off the blame away from her doorstep?
Was this a genuine engagement or games[wo]manship?
The EU was already saying no publicly, I suspect the heads of state were saying the same in her private meetings, but she just had to put them all on the spot and got slapped down as a result.Was this a genuine engagement or games[wo]manship?
She then has the bare faced cheek to publicly b
h that the EU is treating her disrespectfully.Ghibli said:
Jazzy Jag said:
There were circa 17.2 million different reasons for voting leave, each one with a different list of things to achieve.
Maybe the Irish people have similar aspirations but you seem to be of the opinion that they shouldn't have an opportunity to express them as they aren't capable of running their own country.
Why not send all 17.2 million reasons to the ROI and see if you can convince them to have a referendum and be like us. Maybe the Irish people have similar aspirations but you seem to be of the opinion that they shouldn't have an opportunity to express them as they aren't capable of running their own country.
They are capable of running their own country and they don't need us telling them how to do so. If they want a referendum they will have one and they don't need 17.2 million reasons to have one because we don't know what we want and what we are going to get.
I think they are more than capable of making up their own minds.
Imposing options and repeating referenda until the "right" result is achieved is the MO of the EU.
I'm glad you agree that the Irish government and people are capable of running their own country. Can you explain why you though that the default of not being run by the EU was submitting to UK rule?
PurpleMoonlight said:
andy_s said:
Is there a possibility May knew fine well what the reaction of the EU would be (as previously noted) but felt compelled to put it on the table in front of the world to deliberately get the unequivocal 'non' as a. a demonstration of what she's up against (ie 'I'm not a poor leader nor negotiator, they are intransigent' and b. to try to swing people's opinions further to accepting a 'hard' brexit or at least to prepare them for it while laying the groundwork for laying off the blame away from her doorstep?
Was this a genuine engagement or games[wo]manship?
The EU was already saying no publicly, I suspect the heads of state were saying the same in her private meetings, but she just had to put them all on the spot and go slapped down as a result.Was this a genuine engagement or games[wo]manship?
She then has the bare faced cheek to publicly b
h that the EU is treating her disrespectfully.Ghibli said:
We will be a 3rd country to the EU yet citizens will have access to the UK through the ROI who will have freedom of movement.
Will we be having a border between NI and the Uk. If there is no border, how will people be checked.
The ROI will not be stopping EU citizens or 3rd country citizens who have EU visas. Will an EU visa be valid for use in the UK after we have left.
Beyond thick.Will we be having a border between NI and the Uk. If there is no border, how will people be checked.
The ROI will not be stopping EU citizens or 3rd country citizens who have EU visas. Will an EU visa be valid for use in the UK after we have left.
That's the only possible conclusion after this was all explained to you yesterday.
I wont be responding further to your posts.
PurpleMoonlight said:
andy_s said:
Surely though that was the intention - even she could join those dots?
So she can lay the blame on the EU?Most leavers already do and didn't need any encouragement.
Ghibli said:
Tuna said:
Seriously? If you don't understand how this stuff currently happens, you really can't make any comments on NI, or immigration in the UK. This is basic stuff, yet you think you've got a special insight into Brexit?
Seriously, you have been asked the question twice now and you haven't answered.I'm still laughing at your comments on the Irish border thread.
You are just trolling now. Your arguments are circular and without basis.
What exactly do you think you are achieving? Do you think you're winning people over to your cause? Changing minds? Impressing people? When you post for the thirteenth time "but how do we deal with immigrants?", do you think there are Leavers somewhere saying "You know, I hadn't thought about that!"?
You're one of the best arguments for Leaving there is - if you're representative of Remain voters, it would be worth a no deal Brexit just to finally let some of these answers sink in the hard way. Luckily, you're not, but you are not making a good case for staying in.
Tuna said:
It's remarkable how this stuff has been explained to you again and again. There are even posts saying it's been explained to you again and again. Why should I (or anybody else) bother repeating answers you ignored the first dozen times?
You are just trolling now. Your arguments are circular and without basis.
What exactly do you think you are achieving? Do you think you're winning people over to your cause? Changing minds? Impressing people? When you post for the thirteenth time "but how do we deal with immigrants?", do you think there are Leavers somewhere saying "You know, I hadn't thought about that!"?
You're one of the best arguments for Leaving there is - if you're representative of Remain voters, it would be worth a no deal Brexit just to finally let some of these answers sink in the hard way. Luckily, you're not, but you are not making a good case for staying in.
What we have is people who voted for Brexit saying that there is no issue with the Irish border when there obviously is. Those same people say that they have explained the situation when they have not taken into consideration that we are leaving the EU.You are just trolling now. Your arguments are circular and without basis.
What exactly do you think you are achieving? Do you think you're winning people over to your cause? Changing minds? Impressing people? When you post for the thirteenth time "but how do we deal with immigrants?", do you think there are Leavers somewhere saying "You know, I hadn't thought about that!"?
You're one of the best arguments for Leaving there is - if you're representative of Remain voters, it would be worth a no deal Brexit just to finally let some of these answers sink in the hard way. Luckily, you're not, but you are not making a good case for staying in.
I will ask the question to you for a third time and let you explain although I suspect you won't answer and will expect other people to help you.
The ROI will have FOM when we leave, EU citizens and 3rd country EU visa holder will be able to enter as they do now. When we leave, how will we be able to stop EU citizens and 3rd country Eu visa holders entering the UK through Northern Ireland without a border.
Will they still have the same access as they do today? If so, what are we achieving and how are we protecting our border.
Tuna said:
It's remarkable how this stuff has been explained to you again and again. There are even posts saying it's been explained to you again and again. Why should I (or anybody else) bother repeating answers you ignored the first dozen times?
You are just trolling now. Your arguments are circular and without basis.
What exactly do you think you are achieving? Do you think you're winning people over to your cause? Changing minds? Impressing people? When you post for the thirteenth time "but how do we deal with immigrants?", do you think there are Leavers somewhere saying "You know, I hadn't thought about that!"?
You're one of the best arguments for Leaving there is - if you're representative of Remain voters, it would be worth a no deal Brexit just to finally let some of these answers sink in the hard way. Luckily, you're not, but you are not making a good case for staying in.
'winning people over' You are just trolling now. Your arguments are circular and without basis.
What exactly do you think you are achieving? Do you think you're winning people over to your cause? Changing minds? Impressing people? When you post for the thirteenth time "but how do we deal with immigrants?", do you think there are Leavers somewhere saying "You know, I hadn't thought about that!"?
You're one of the best arguments for Leaving there is - if you're representative of Remain voters, it would be worth a no deal Brexit just to finally let some of these answers sink in the hard way. Luckily, you're not, but you are not making a good case for staying in.
Funny post.
Jazzy Jag said:
There were circa 17.2 million different reasons for voting leave, each one with a different list of things to achieve.
There weren't. Aaron Banks said:
“The Conservatives are now trying to rewrite the campaign that immigration wasn’t important, but boy was immigration important,” Banks said. “The first thing we did was poll everybody and we found that if immigration wasn’t the issue, the issue was schools or education, proxies for immigration. It was the number one issue by a country mile.”
And it's FMoL not FMoP. jjlynn27 said:
And it's FMoL not FMoP.
No, it's been free movement of persons since Maastricht.http://www.europarl.europa.eu/factsheets/en/sheet/...
davepoth said:
jjlynn27 said:
And it's FMoL not FMoP.
No, it's been free movement of persons since Maastricht.http://www.europarl.europa.eu/factsheets/en/sheet/...
jjlynn27 said:
'winning people over'
Funny post.
I'll ask the same of you jj, it must be a thankless task hassling people over semantics and dredging up minor points to rubbish the wider conversation. Yet you persist. Why? Funny post.
Do you think you're making a case for Remain? Or teaching those nasty Leavers a lesson?
jjlynn27 said:
Jazzy Jag said:
There were circa 17.2 million different reasons for voting leave, each one with a different list of things to achieve.
There weren't. Aaron Banks said:
“The Conservatives are now trying to rewrite the campaign that immigration wasn’t important, but boy was immigration important,” Banks said. “The first thing we did was poll everybody and we found that if immigration wasn’t the issue, the issue was schools or education, proxies for immigration. It was the number one issue by a country mile.”
And it's FMoL not FMoP. There may have been a primary reason but every voter did so for their own individual reasons.
Out of curiosity has anyone on here been asked question about Brexit for a Poll?.
These Polls are just self fulfilling like the guy talking about the Railways. He said if you ask people do you think the Railways should be Nationalised and taken away from the money grabbing private Companies the answer is yes but if you ask them do you think the Railways should be Nationalised so John McDonnel can run them they get a different answer.
These Polls are just self fulfilling like the guy talking about the Railways. He said if you ask people do you think the Railways should be Nationalised and taken away from the money grabbing private Companies the answer is yes but if you ask them do you think the Railways should be Nationalised so John McDonnel can run them they get a different answer.
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