Theresa May

[captain_cynic]

Oilchange said:

I think these comments also highlight your own prejudices, I mean how dare anyone have an opinion contrary to yours?

If anything that comment highlights you inability to handle opinions contrary to your own and your inability to handle criticism.

MC Bodge was spot on with the "feel, not facts" comment. Sadly the "feel, not facts" crowd hate being criticised.

[MC Bodge]

dromond said:

Oilchange said:

MC Bodge said:

I don't belive that many people were that bothered about leaving the EU prior to the referendum build up.

It certainly wasn't a topic of conversation, even for my "reactionary, little England, man in the street, state of the nation swingometer" Father in Law.

Muslims and the islamification of the UK were more his concern than Eastern Europeans, (along with disliking Labour and liking the Royals/Diana, but not Price Charles). Living as he does in an affluent Cheshire village.

The referendum allowed him to (Daily) Express himself and "sovereignty" appealed to him and his love of Royalty, along with fears of "immigrants" (ie. muslims).

He told me that for him it was about "gut feel", not facts.

I think these comments also highlight your own prejudices, I mean how dare anyone have an opinion contrary to yours?

Exactly.

Not quite. Had these been well-thought out positions it would have been different.

The "gut feel" comment makes a big difference.

[Oilchange]

captain_cynic said:

If anything that comment highlights you inability to handle opinions contrary to your own and your inability to handle criticism.

MC Bodge was spot on with the "feel, not facts" comment. Sadly the "feel, not facts" crowd hate being criticised.

No he was not. The reason people vote one way or another is Entirely irrelevent, it is just that they choose to vote that way.

They are under no obligation to explain or justify the reasons to you, me or anyone.

[dromond]

captain_cynic said:

Oilchange said:

I think these comments also highlight your own prejudices, I mean how dare anyone have an opinion contrary to yours?

If anything that comment highlights you inability to handle opinions contrary to your own and your inability to handle criticism.

MC Bodge was spot on with the "feel, not facts" comment. Sadly the "feel, not facts" crowd hate being criticised.

Sadly the "feel, not facts" crowd hate being criticised?, What a silly statement, why would it be sadly?, and if it is the case
that a certain group of people hate being criticised , does that then imply that another group love being criticised?,
well if it does here is something you will love... My criticism of your poor grammar.

[Tuna]

soupdragon1 said:

Is it beyond the realms of possibility that the English voting to leave the EU, will end up with them leaving the United Kingdom too? Northern Ireland and Scotland wanted to stay in the EU - and that could well happen now, with only England leaving the EU. Or is that just a chain of events that realistically, will never happen?

Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales independently joining the EU is a pipe-dream fantasy of desperate Remainers who want there to be consequences - preferably ones that don't inconvenience them too much. The requirements to join the EU are such that none of them independently would be permitted access, and even if they were, they'd be joining Greece as basket case countries. This is why Sturgeon is rattling sabres, but not too loudly - she knows full well that Scotland could not survive independence.

[Ron Maiden]

Tuna said:

soupdragon1 said:

Is it beyond the realms of possibility that the English voting to leave the EU, will end up with them leaving the United Kingdom too? Northern Ireland and Scotland wanted to stay in the EU - and that could well happen now, with only England leaving the EU. Or is that just a chain of events that realistically, will never happen?

Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales independently joining the EU is a pipe-dream fantasy of desperate Remainers who want there to be consequences - preferably ones that don't inconvenience them too much. The requirements to join the EU are such that none of them independently would be permitted access, and even if they were, they'd be joining Greece as basket case countries. This is why Sturgeon is rattling sabres, but not too loudly - she knows full well that Scotland could not survive independence.

Tuna, nice to see a post just stating simple facts on here, well done.

[soupdragon1]

Tuna said:

soupdragon1 said:

Is it beyond the realms of possibility that the English voting to leave the EU, will end up with them leaving the United Kingdom too? Northern Ireland and Scotland wanted to stay in the EU - and that could well happen now, with only England leaving the EU. Or is that just a chain of events that realistically, will never happen?

Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales independently joining the EU is a pipe-dream fantasy of desperate Remainers who want there to be consequences - preferably ones that don't inconvenience them too much. The requirements to join the EU are such that none of them independently would be permitted access, and even if they were, they'd be joining Greece as basket case countries. This is why Sturgeon is rattling sabres, but not too loudly - she knows full well that Scotland could not survive independence.

I don't think its quite as simple as that, and its nothing to do with remainers, more so to do with those trying to deliver Brexit.

The DUP who are 'at present' backing Teresa May, may well pull the rug from under her and not back her in the budget, which could start a chain of events that leads to the break up the UK. But at the very same time, the DUP don't want that to happen. I don't think its a pipe-dream at all in that respect, just a very strange chain of events and the very people who don't want to break up the UK, could end up breaking up the UK due to the stalemate they current find themselves in.

Its very much cat and mouse between the DUP and T May now and if the DUP carry out their 'threat' of voting down the upcoming budget, the domino effect could lead to all sorts of changes.

[MC Bodge]

Oilchange said:

captain_cynic said:

If anything that comment highlights you inability to handle opinions contrary to your own and your inability to handle criticism.

MC Bodge was spot on with the "feel, not facts" comment. Sadly the "feel, not facts" crowd hate being criticised.

No he was not. The reason people vote one way or another is Entirely irrelevent, it is just that they choose to vote that way.

They are under no obligation to explain or justify the reasons to you, me or anyone.

It is not irrelevant. "The people" should not have been asked the simple binary question.

Given that they were asked the big question, facts should have been the basis of the vote, not "feel" that had been heavily influenced by their base prejudices (some of which came from WW2 propaganda, some from a dislike of the modern world) and nostalgia and propagated by tabloids feeding them nonsense.

Despite the fantasy claims, people did not know the extent of what they were voting for.

There were, of course, some people who thought clear and hard about voting to leave, and thought that that they would be fine.

These were possibly some people on here.

The electorate do not need to run the country. Most of us are not that interested in the bureaucracy of running a nation or a Union of nations.

Nobody won the referendum.

No UK government will ever again do anything so stupid as to ask a divided, polarised population such a question. They might as well have flipped a coin.

Edited by MC Bodge on Friday 12th October 14:32

[RichB]

MC Bodge said:

I blame the long-standing silly jingoism and British Supremacy ideas that presented us as different to (and better than) our neighbours. The 16.8 million that voted the opposite way didn't feel that it was worth leaving the EU for. Perhaps people who did not vote may be more inclined to vote in future.

I voted remain but it is ignorant remarks from 'Remoaners' like you that ensure that if there is another vote I will vote to leave. I feel ashamed to be associated with such a rude bunch of self-centred, moaning people.

[Halb]

I feel sorry for maybot. She just can't do good for doing wrong.

[MC Bodge]

RichB said:

I voted remain but it is ignorant remarks from 'Remoaners' like you that ensure that if there is another vote I will vote to leave. I feel ashamed to be associated with such a rude bunch of self-centred, moaning people.

That seems an odd reason to vote to leave.

It's not self-centred, it's UK and EU-centred....

[RichB]

MC Bodge said:

RichB said:

I voted remain but it is ignorant remarks from 'Remoaners' like you that ensure that if there is another vote I will vote to leave. I feel ashamed to be associated with such a rude bunch of self-centred, moaning people.

That seems an odd reason to vote to leave. It's not self-centred, it's UK and EU-centred....

True MCB, but your remark about jingoism and British supremacy is annoying and is typical of remainers who try to label everyone who voted leave as racist.

[Randy Winkman]

MC Bodge said:

RichB said:

I voted remain but it is ignorant remarks from 'Remoaners' like you that ensure that if there is another vote I will vote to leave. I feel ashamed to be associated with such a rude bunch of self-centred, moaning people.

That seems an odd reason to vote to leave.

It's not self-centred, it's UK and EU-centred....

And before the vote it was the "Remoaners" that were positive about being in the EU and it was the Brexiteers who were finding problems. But since the vote we are the ones called "moaners". Once we're out, the Brexiteers will find someone else to blame for things that aren't right in their lives.

[MC Bodge]

RichB said:

MC Bodge said:

RichB said:

I voted remain but it is ignorant remarks from 'Remoaners' like you that ensure that if there is another vote I will vote to leave. I feel ashamed to be associated with such a rude bunch of self-centred, moaning people.

That seems an odd reason to vote to leave. It's not self-centred, it's UK and EU-centred....

True MCB, but your remark about jingoism and British supremacy is annoying and is typical of remainers who try to label everyone who voted leave as racist.

Racism isn't the right word, but it appears to coincide with a separate position and a distorted view of the UK's place in the world, sometimes based upon history.

[sidicks]

MC Bodge said:

Racism isn't the right word, but it appears to coincide with a separate position and a distorted view of the UK's place in the world, sometimes based upon history.

For some, probably. To suggest it’s relevant for a significant number is pretty pathetic.

[MC Bodge]

sidicks said:

MC Bodge said:

Racism isn't the right word, but it appears to coincide with a separate position and a distorted view of the UK's place in the world, sometimes based upon history.

For some, probably. To suggest it’s relevant for a significant number is pretty pathetic.

The rest may well be racist

[sidicks]

MC Bodge said:

The rest may well be racist

[RichB]

MC Bodge said:

RichB said:

MC Bodge said:

RichB said:

I voted remain but it is ignorant remarks from 'Remoaners' like you that ensure that if there is another vote I will vote to leave. I feel ashamed to be associated with such a rude bunch of self-centred, moaning people.

That seems an odd reason to vote to leave. It's not self-centred, it's UK and EU-centred....

True MCB, but your remark about jingoism and British supremacy is annoying and is typical of remainers who try to label everyone who voted leave as racist.

Racism isn't the right word, but it appears to coincide with a separate position and a distorted view of the UK's place in the world, sometimes based upon history.

I have no wish to get involved in a long debate about semantics but I think your accusation of jingoism based on thoughts of British supremacy aligns perfectly with the word racist. And it is exactly that insulting characterisation of brexiteers by many remainers that I was referring to in my original post.

[Sway]

Randy Winkman said:

MC Bodge said:

RichB said:

I voted remain but it is ignorant remarks from 'Remoaners' like you that ensure that if there is another vote I will vote to leave. I feel ashamed to be associated with such a rude bunch of self-centred, moaning people.

That seems an odd reason to vote to leave.

It's not self-centred, it's UK and EU-centred....

And before the vote it was the "Remoaners" that were positive about being in the EU and it was the Brexiteers who were finding problems. But since the vote we are the ones called "moaners". Once we're out, the Brexiteers will find someone else to blame for things that aren't right in their lives.

I'm fairly sure I've never applied the term "remoaner" to anyone, but prior to the ref, was anyone "positive" about being in the EU?

From my memory, pretty much the most positive argument was "it's flawed, but it's too risky to leave so we should try to reform from within".

You would think, with nearly 40 years of increasing integration, that that positivity could have been articulated in the Remain campaign, instead of the constant negative campaigning...

[MC Bodge]

RichB said:

I have no wish to get involved in a long debate about semantics but I think your accusation of jingoism based on thoughts of British supremacy aligns perfectly with the word racist. And it is exactly that insulting characterisation of brexiteers by many remainers that I was referring to in my original post.

You don't need to be racist to believe that being born in Britain or having a British passport makes you inherently superior to all other people, including those from the lands 25 miles away from Great Britain (or zero miles from the Republic /Northern Ireland border).

You may have been insulted. I'm not sure why.