Discussion
Greg66 said:
s2art said:
I think it would have. Had May not overturned DD (overruling a huge department dedicated to leaving the EU) and gone for the Canada+ approach (indicated as acceptable to Barnier and co) we would have had a deal, at least in draft form 10 months ago.
How would Canada+ (a) have worked for London-based financial services and (b) solved the Irish border issue? Genuine question. Ireland was an easy fix when both sides were negotiating in good faith, now there isn't a workable solution beyond neither side being prepared to actually put a border there and the people on the island tearing down anything that is put there.
Every aspect of the deal is f
ked beyond repair by May now.It was always going to end badly when we went to them begging for a deal, to be rejected time and time again.
If we'd have started with "right, we're off, here's our number if you want to do a deal" We might be in a better place and if not certainly no worse than we are now. We'd also be nicely prepared for a no deal. We could have had a lot of trade deals with the rest of the world all but sown up in the two years we've been flapping about.
Seems to me we've done all the chasing and they all the rejecting. Pathetic.
If we'd have started with "right, we're off, here's our number if you want to do a deal" We might be in a better place and if not certainly no worse than we are now. We'd also be nicely prepared for a no deal. We could have had a lot of trade deals with the rest of the world all but sown up in the two years we've been flapping about.
Seems to me we've done all the chasing and they all the rejecting. Pathetic.
Harry H said:
It was always going to end badly when we went to them begging for a deal, to be rejected time and time again.
If we'd have started with "right, we're off, here's our number if you want to do a deal" We might be in a better place and if not certainly no worse than we are now. We'd also be nicely prepared for a no deal. We could have had a lot of trade deals with the rest of the world all but sown up in the two years we've been flapping about.
Seems to me we've done all the chasing and they all the rejecting. Pathetic.
"We could have had a lot of trade deals with the rest of the world all but sown up in the two years we've been flapping about."If we'd have started with "right, we're off, here's our number if you want to do a deal" We might be in a better place and if not certainly no worse than we are now. We'd also be nicely prepared for a no deal. We could have had a lot of trade deals with the rest of the world all but sown up in the two years we've been flapping about.
Seems to me we've done all the chasing and they all the rejecting. Pathetic.
Two years? That quick, huh?
JuniorD said:
Harry H said:
It was always going to end badly when we went to them begging for a deal, to be rejected time and time again.
If we'd have started with "right, we're off, here's our number if you want to do a deal" We might be in a better place and if not certainly no worse than we are now. We'd also be nicely prepared for a no deal. We could have had a lot of trade deals with the rest of the world all but sown up in the two years we've been flapping about.
Seems to me we've done all the chasing and they all the rejecting. Pathetic.
"We could have had a lot of trade deals with the rest of the world all but sown up in the two years we've been flapping about."If we'd have started with "right, we're off, here's our number if you want to do a deal" We might be in a better place and if not certainly no worse than we are now. We'd also be nicely prepared for a no deal. We could have had a lot of trade deals with the rest of the world all but sown up in the two years we've been flapping about.
Seems to me we've done all the chasing and they all the rejecting. Pathetic.
Two years? That quick, huh?
Even if we didn't have trade deals signed, the very fact we were in negotiations with other countries would have strengthened our position with the EU.
I said when the referendum was called, an actual decision to leave would be less important than what the government did with it. This government under the autocratic and secretive May has wholesale screwed the nation for a decade.
surveyor said:
No one could have done better.
She is facing negotiating against a combination of countries all wanting different things, and certainly the advantage.
On her side she has half a party, while the other half are back butting, bickering and generally being a right royal pain. There should also be an opposition, but they seem to have fixated on anti-senatksm and forgotten about Brexit. Don’t fool yourself that they would have been any different.
Put it in the business context. This sort of thing would be negotiated in private.behidn closed doors. Executives who did not agree would not go to the press, but would talk it through and would either agree, Shutup or move on..
It was always going to be a clusterfk of giant proportions.
Agreed. She is facing negotiating against a combination of countries all wanting different things, and certainly the advantage.
On her side she has half a party, while the other half are back butting, bickering and generally being a right royal pain. There should also be an opposition, but they seem to have fixated on anti-senatksm and forgotten about Brexit. Don’t fool yourself that they would have been any different.
Put it in the business context. This sort of thing would be negotiated in private.behidn closed doors. Executives who did not agree would not go to the press, but would talk it through and would either agree, Shutup or move on..
It was always going to be a clusterf
k of giant proportions.It will also get through parliament. Brexit fatigue is real and with the exception of posters on PH, I don't think the Country really gives a s
t anymore and just want it to be over. Do MPs really believe that after their collective performance these past two years, the electorate have any faith in them to manage the consequences of a no deal or will indeed thank them for extending this clusterfk for another as yet undetermined number of years?? Have a read of today's front pages and the change in tone of the DM and DE from say 12 months ago.If you're a Tory, vote it down and it's a GE/Corbyn government. If you're Labour vote it down and your Momentum vote disappears.
amusingduck said:
This might have been covered already, apologies if so.
How does the reported permanent CU deal fit with the Government being unable to bind future governments?
Presumably future Governments will be free to breach international treaties if they want.How does the reported permanent CU deal fit with the Government being unable to bind future governments?
I think it falls short of being illegal, but is almost certainly unconstitutional.
desolate said:
B'stard Child said:
Media saying statement at 5pm - that's midnight where I am so I'll catch up with that tomorrow
Are you and Purple Moonlight snuggling up for a nap?BC needs to be careful with PM's back, it's extremely fragile, the bone is missing
ben5575 said:
Have a read of today's front pages and the change in tone of the DM and DE from say 12 months ago..
You mean a DM that has replaced its editor with a remainer?The "people that matter" were all primed, the press instructed to be mainly positive, and then a leak occurred and the EU's internal gloating about how they had screwed the UK became the story instead.
You are mistaken if you view the views of press barons to be those of the British people and we will see how much this all matters at the next election.
paulrockliffe said:
Presumably future Governments will be free to breach international treaties if they want.
I think it falls short of being illegal, but is almost certainly unconstitutional.
All other international treaties, with one exceptional category, have a unilateral exit clause to deal with this issue. I think it falls short of being illegal, but is almost certainly unconstitutional.
The exception is unconditional surrender after a war.
Tony Blair.....
article said:
“This deal isn’t a compromise, it’s a capitulation.
“The withdrawal agreement will keep us tied to EU trade policy until there is an end established by ‘joint consent’ – in other words, the EU has a veto.
“It is coated in heavy fudge but that is the inedible biscuit beneath the coating.”
He added the proposals had united him and Boris Johnson in “unholy alliance”, saying: “We agree this is a pointless Brexit in name only which is not the best of a bad job but the worst of both worlds.
“In the cause of ‘taking back control’ we lose the control we had.”
“The withdrawal agreement will keep us tied to EU trade policy until there is an end established by ‘joint consent’ – in other words, the EU has a veto.
“It is coated in heavy fudge but that is the inedible biscuit beneath the coating.”
He added the proposals had united him and Boris Johnson in “unholy alliance”, saying: “We agree this is a pointless Brexit in name only which is not the best of a bad job but the worst of both worlds.
“In the cause of ‘taking back control’ we lose the control we had.”
article said:
In comments which are likely to infuriate Tory Brexiteers, Mr Blair also highlighted the PowerPoint presentation used to promote Mrs May’s Chequers plan, claiming the Prime Minister’s Europe adviser Olly Robbins and the civil service had used “elaborate camouflage” to disguise elements of the proposals.
https://www.leighjournal.co.uk/news/national/17223788.blair-condemns-pms-brexit-deal-as-capitulation-to-eu/psi310398 said:
paulrockliffe said:
Presumably future Governments will be free to breach international treaties if they want.
I think it falls short of being illegal, but is almost certainly unconstitutional.
All other international treaties, with one exceptional category, have a unilateral exit clause to deal with this issue. I think it falls short of being illegal, but is almost certainly unconstitutional.
The exception is unconditional surrender after a war.
mcdjl said:
My prediction? Cabinet agrees it, parliament rejects it. TM steps down. Someone else takes over, 'its close we just need to make a few more changes'. March 28th EU agrees to something that parliament puts through. (thats very similar to whats on the table now)
on the live news just, the blod outside No 10 pretty much said that the brexiters in the cabinet can faux support Maybot whilst knowing it'll be sunk in Parliament....if it's a deal that brexiters don't like....and also that there might be brexiter 'chats' going on...I suppose they'd be outside of party. Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff