Discussion
Piha said:
It is rather telling that Jackson Rees Mogg's call to arms yesterday has failed to materialise yet? I believe that the ERG has lost and TM has won. Although surely the bickering and sniping from the ERG has damaged the party so much it is now unelectable.
Quite amusing that the ERG has gifted the next election to Jeremy, Diane and John.
The self-styled ERG may have exposed itself as having little real power.Quite amusing that the ERG has gifted the next election to Jeremy, Diane and John.
I suspected as much all along. Push come to shove, it's just a dozen or so disaster capitalists and their spineless fanboys.
Einion Yrth said:
citizensm1th said:
The ERG are like a toothless clawless tiger. capable of much noise and fury but all they can really do is give you a nasty suck.
They're about 80 votes that May will have to find elsewhere.The ERG are going to end up on the same old scrap heap that farage is king of .
Nobody likes a back stabber you never can trust them once they show their true colours.
psi310398 said:
saaby93 said:
Surely the second one is a poll on how the deal is being portrayed in the media?
It's interesting that its leavers that dont like it, yet the deal is to leave.
Please stop trolling - it patently isn't.It's interesting that its leavers that dont like it, yet the deal is to leave.
29th March 2019 we're out.
That could be a lonely place, especially for business and there's the Irish border issue
So set up an agreement about the border and trade, let it kick off from 29th March 2019 and that's what this is about.
What's not to like
citizensm1th said:
Einion Yrth said:
citizensm1th said:
The ERG are like a toothless clawless tiger. capable of much noise and fury but all they can really do is give you a nasty suck.
They're about 80 votes that May will have to find elsewhere.The ERG are going to end up on the same old scrap heap that farage is king of .
Nobody likes a back stabber you never can trust them once they show their true colours.
Einion Yrth said:
citizensm1th said:
Einion Yrth said:
citizensm1th said:
The ERG are like a toothless clawless tiger. capable of much noise and fury but all they can really do is give you a nasty suck.
They're about 80 votes that May will have to find elsewhere.The ERG are going to end up on the same old scrap heap that farage is king of .
Nobody likes a back stabber you never can trust them once they show their true colours.
citizensm1th said:
You mistake me for someone who cares about May i would love nothing more than for the tories to descend into yet another leadership battle especially now. But it is not going to happen a bit like her deal with the EU.
Fair enough, we have little to discuss then; enjoy your evening.Helicopter123 said:
Piha said:
It is rather telling that Jackson Rees Mogg's call to arms yesterday has failed to materialise yet? I believe that the ERG has lost and TM has won. Although surely the bickering and sniping from the ERG has damaged the party so much it is now unelectable.
Quite amusing that the ERG has gifted the next election to Jeremy, Diane and John.
The self-styled ERG may have exposed itself as having little real power.Quite amusing that the ERG has gifted the next election to Jeremy, Diane and John.
I suspected as much all along. Push come to shove, it's just a dozen or so disaster capitalists and their spineless fanboys.
Cant help but think Michael Gove also known as Gollum is infact keeping his powder dry so when the first round of votes come in he can say how loyal he was to the Party and to the PM. When the men in grey suits come for May he will be there waiting forthe call to unite the Party and the Country.....well that's his dream the reality is quite different
citizensm1th said:
And utterly pointless now the loony god fearing medievalists have abandoned her.
The ERG are going to end up on the same old scrap heap that farage is king of .
Nobody likes a back stabber you never can trust them once they show their true colours.
How are they backstabbers? The ERG are going to end up on the same old scrap heap that farage is king of .
Nobody likes a back stabber you never can trust them once they show their true colours.
They have consistently tried to hold TM to her manifesto commitments. She is the one who has welshed on the electorate.
What else can they honourably do?
johnxjsc1985 said:
Cant help but think Michael Gove also known as Gollum is infact keeping his powder dry so when the first round of votes come in he can say how loyal he was to the Party and to the PM. When the men in grey suits come for May he will be there waiting forthe call to unite the Party and the Country.....well that's his dream the reality is quite different
Can't think that by this stage there are too many who would trust the little weasel to sit the right way on a lavatory seat, to be honest.Derek Smith said:
I don't like May. I don't trust her. She's as bad as Mogg, Johnson et al with regards aiming only to further their own beliefs and ideas without reference to anyone who is of no advatage to her.
However, I was wrong in one way in my estimation of her. She's stuck to her guns and faced off the mob. I expected her to throw in the towel a long time ago.
Mind you, she won't see out this parliament as PM.
Thankfully.
So Derek, whom would you have replace the month of May. A month of Spring growth and sunny cheer. A new beginning of God awful economic collapse from a socialist cabal.However, I was wrong in one way in my estimation of her. She's stuck to her guns and faced off the mob. I expected her to throw in the towel a long time ago.
Mind you, she won't see out this parliament as PM.
Thankfully.
The labouristas have a sad record of s
t in government from Harold to Gordon compared to the conservatives of the same era.Our Theresa is the best of a rotten barrel of apples. Gove ffs. Fox ffs.
johnxjsc1985 said:
Cant help but think Michael Gove also known as Gollum is infact keeping his powder dry so when the first round of votes come in he can say how loyal he was to the Party and to the PM. When the men in grey suits come for May he will be there waiting forthe call to unite the Party and the Country.....well that's his dream the reality is quite different
The only way in which Gove seems able to unify any large number of people is in their dislike for him. It's actually difficult to think of anyone who could unite the Tories at this point. Everyone is either a leaver or a remainer and the habit of trying to bridge this gap will have failed forever when May is ousted. You have to be one or the other.
The Attourney General Geoffrey Cox came across very well at the conference and is the closest I can think of to being able to unite the two sides, but it's hard to see that he has the profile to become a leader.
JuanCarlosFandango said:
johnxjsc1985 said:
Cant help but think Michael Gove also known as Gollum is infact keeping his powder dry so when the first round of votes come in he can say how loyal he was to the Party and to the PM. When the men in grey suits come for May he will be there waiting forthe call to unite the Party and the Country.....well that's his dream the reality is quite different
The only way in which Gove seems able to unify any large number of people is in their dislike for him. It's actually difficult to think of anyone who could unite the Tories at this point. Everyone is either a leaver or a remainer and the habit of trying to bridge this gap will have failed forever when May is ousted. You have to be one or the other.
The Attourney General Geoffrey Cox came across very well at the conference and is the closest I can think of to being able to unite the two sides, but it's hard to see that he has the profile to become a leader.
It’s a completely thankless task. There is no clear path out of the mess so whoever takes the job becomes the whipping boy of the Euro-sceptic wing, and or the Euro-Phil’s wing and or the collective opposition.
It’s the poisoned chalice to end all poisoned chalices.
Greg66 said:
The other issues is who actually wants to be leader now.
It’s a completely thankless task. There is no clear path out of the mess so whoever takes the job becomes the whipping boy of the Euro-sceptic wing, and or the Euro-Phil’s wing and or the collective opposition.
It’s the poisoned chalice to end all poisoned chalices.
It sort of is, but it's also a monumental opportunity for someone to get it right. It needs a rare combination of pragmatism and vision. Both appear to be lacking in the current Tory party.It’s a completely thankless task. There is no clear path out of the mess so whoever takes the job becomes the whipping boy of the Euro-sceptic wing, and or the Euro-Phil’s wing and or the collective opposition.
It’s the poisoned chalice to end all poisoned chalices.
JuanCarlosFandango said:
Greg66 said:
The other issues is who actually wants to be leader now.
It’s a completely thankless task. There is no clear path out of the mess so whoever takes the job becomes the whipping boy of the Euro-sceptic wing, and or the Euro-Phil’s wing and or the collective opposition.
It’s the poisoned chalice to end all poisoned chalices.
It sort of is, but it's also a monumental opportunity for someone to get it right. It needs a rare combination of pragmatism and vision. Both appear to be lacking in the current Tory party.It’s a completely thankless task. There is no clear path out of the mess so whoever takes the job becomes the whipping boy of the Euro-sceptic wing, and or the Euro-Phil’s wing and or the collective opposition.
It’s the poisoned chalice to end all poisoned chalices.
While the no confidence vote is (probably) going to fail I have a feeling it might have been used to flush out "fake" Brexiteers in cabinet. In that respect it's worked fairly well - Gove, Fox and Mourdant will now be off the ERG Christmas list for certain, but I expect Raab is in favour.
The DUP are openly threatening to withdraw support from the government, and presumably that will happen during the budget votes next week, since it's traditionally a confidence vote. I have a feeling that that is going to be the actual crunch point.
The advantage of voting down the budget is that it wouldn't be a confidence vote under the Fixed Term Parliaments Act, so wouldn't start the clock ticking on a potential snap election - which would make it a somewhat safe way of pulling their support, specifically from the PM.
It's hard to credit our politicians with the sort of intelligence required to pull together a two-pronged assault like that, but since the DUP have such a powerful lever it seems strange that they haven't pulled it yet - unless they're biding their time.
JuanCarlosFandango said:
...
It's actually difficult to think of anyone who could unite the Tories at this point. Everyone is either a leaver or a remainer and the habit of trying to bridge this gap will have failed forever when May is ousted. You have to be one or the other....
The last bit here's a bit of a truism, surely?It's actually difficult to think of anyone who could unite the Tories at this point. Everyone is either a leaver or a remainer and the habit of trying to bridge this gap will have failed forever when May is ousted. You have to be one or the other....
You cannot both "leave" and "remain" in something.
Someone far smarter than May or Robbins might be able to bring more people in one or the other camp to accept the alternative position and hence get a proper majority of support. I suspect May/Robbins probably think/thought it would be easier to do that persuading leavers to accept a remain notion...I think they would be wiser looking to the people who actually vote for their party, but that doesn't seem to be their MO (Robbins for sure has been too close to the EU to think that a good idea!).
But people like Mogg and Clarke, or perhaps Raab and Soubry (hateful woman) I just don't see ever being persuaded. The only way I'd see their position being reconciled wrt the Conservatives would be for them not to be in the Conservatives. That might have been the most positive outcome of this whole thing - the two main parties splitting and people actually aligning to what they believe in and standing on that basis, rather than rosette colours. Very wishful thinking though.
what does this look like
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46243745
Where's Alan Rickman when you need him
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46243745
Where's Alan Rickman when you need him
Murph7355 said:
That might have been the most positive outcome of this whole thing - the two main parties splitting and people actually aligning to what they believe in and standing on that basis, rather than rosette colours. Very wishful thinking though.
~You will get Blair because that is what he has been working out with the EU, aka project Political Puppet
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