Theresa May

[zb]

jsf said:

She hasn't stood up. She lay down and took a flogging when it counted,

The moment she did her chequers betrayal she should have been removed, but the tories thought they could argue some sense into this "bloody difficult woman". They were wrong and look what we have now.

I hear this time, and time again. This is a dreadful deal, awful, lamentable, we should negotiate again.

What with? what leverage? What would they do different. A lot of clowns howling from this sidelines, content they'll never be held to account, or have to prove just how empty their promises are. Which bring us back to how we got here in the fking first place

[psi310398]

ClaphamGT3 said:

It's not a question of what I believe; it's a question of what I know. This is how politics work and have worked in this country at least since 1911. If the electorate believe a deviation from a manifesto commitment is sufficiently significant then they are, of course, welcome to vote the party in question out of office at the next election.

All politicians, of all parties, adapt to the realities of the situations that they face; I am no fan of May but that is what she has done. Anyone with the wit and the will to analyse her political track record would always have known that she was only ever going to do that. Oh, and don't get hung up on the Lancaster House speech - it was just that; a speech; not a policy statement, not a manifesto commitment - just a speech.

under the circumstances, I think that she and her team have got a pretty good deal; not ideal and certainly a whole lot worse than remaining but certainly workable for the UK economy. I suspect that she will get it through parliament and that it will form the basis of a reasonably sensible on-going relationship with the EU which (a) largely protects our economy and (b) leaves the door open for a relatively painless re-entry once the 37% have come to their senses

I have never said that manifesto commitments have the force of law. But they need to be taken seriously.

Parliament gives a lot of weight to manifesto commitments. So much so that the Salisbury Doctrine exists, to ensure that major Government Bills can get through the Lords when the Government of the day has no majority in the Lords. The Lords do not try to vote down at second or third reading, a Government Bill promised in an election manifesto.

[EddieSteadyGo]

jsf said:

The moment she did her chequers betrayal she should have been removed, but the tories thought they could argue some sense into this "bloody difficult woman". They were wrong and look what we have now.

You need to think how your suggestion would have played out, even assuming it was feasible.

In the commons, there is currently a majority of MPs inclined to vote Remain, given a free vote, with the balance split between the "ERG" types where Brexit is a principled matter of the highest important, with the others taking a more pragmatic view.

And there is still roughly 50% of the population likely to vote Remain, given a second vote.

So let's assume you had deposed May. The ERG types don't have sufficient numbers in the parliamentary party to get their 1st choice elected as PM. But let's assume they were, and you got a Rees-Mogg type.

We know the EU aren't inclined to bend (currently) to the Brexit Ultras, for the reasons I mentioned in a previous post. So your new PM would have to propose a version of 'No Deal'. Which won't pass through parliament. So my guess at that point is that it would lead to a second election. I could be wrong, but I think it is likely Labour in that scenario would promise a second referendum - that would be the expedient choice. And who knows the result of another referendum, but it wound leave blood on the walls whatever the result with a lot of people feeling disenfranchised.

So please explain how your proposal would have worked out better, given the political reality and the proportion of the population who disagree with you.

[Helicopter123]

Jimboka said:

Interesting Proples Vote stand in the PMs own constituency High Street today. Inviting passers-by to indicate their preferences on a chart. I’d say 75% of the responses were anti Brexit & pro Proples Vote. Much like the PM deep down I reckon..
The way things are going, Mrs May will struggle to be an MP, let alone PM

Edited by Jimboka on Saturday 17th November 20:18

Good post.

Brexit is becoming toxic and any politician who stands by it is risking political extinction.

[andy_s]

Cobnapint said:

Have a little read of this, and absorb FFS

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/11/the-top-40-h...

And a more sober rebuttal: https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/11/the-brexit-d...

[Gandahar]

Loving the fact some lady is still trying to work it out whilst a lot of men who probably look like a cross between Jeremy Clarkson and Guy the Gorilla use their knuckles to hit a keyboard.



Let's hope you do not resign from doing such a deed.

[HarryW]

Helicopter123 said:

Jimboka said:

Interesting Proples Vote stand in the PMs own constituency High Street today. Inviting passers-by to indicate their preferences on a chart. I’d say 75% of the responses were anti Brexit & pro Proples Vote. Much like the PM deep down I reckon..
The way things are going, Mrs May will struggle to be an MP, let alone PM

Edited by Jimboka on Saturday 17th November 20:18

Good post.

Brexit is becoming toxic and any politician who stands by it is risking political extinction.

But hasn't that been part of the second referendum game plan all along, it's coming to fruition, well done team TB who's been pulling the strings behind the scenes since day one...

[dandarez]

Helicopter123 said:

Jimboka said:

Interesting Proples Vote stand in the PMs own constituency High Street today. Inviting passers-by to indicate their preferences on a chart. I’d say 75% of the responses were anti Brexit & pro Proples Vote. Much like the PM deep down I reckon..
The way things are going, Mrs May will struggle to be an MP, let alone PM

Edited by Jimboka on Saturday 17th November 20:18

Good post.

Brexit is becoming toxic and any politician who stands by it is risking political extinction.

Christ, are you for real? A Good post?
WTF then are Proples?
And Jim has even 'edited' it!!

Plus, Jimboka, besides editing and not even noting your crap spelling, I'd better let you know that in Maidenhead (or anywhere ftm) 75% of fk all is the same ...fk all!

If I'd have witnessed this Vote Stand I'd have taken a pic to back up my evidence or did you drop your mobile and break it?
Surely you took a pic of it so we can see it was 75% of the population of Maidenhead?

I didn't think so.

[Stigproducts]

The con began when the talk of hard vs soft started getting any kind of consideration. Hard brexit, as far as I can tell is exactly what it said in the government leaflet that laid out what people were voting for, the "consequences" if citizens made the "wrong" choice. Leave the customs union, leave the single market

Talk of soft brexit is just weasal words for reneging on what was offered, slowing pushing it back and that's exactly what has been going on, until we get the absolute joke of a "deal" Teresa May came up with this week

Culminating today when i heard a caller on Any Answers saying that seeing as Teresa Mays deal is so bad we should start fresh with a new outlook and have a second referendum with choices being 'No deal' or 'remain'. So exactly the same as last time then.

The media have all been spoken to as well. The Daily Mail for example have done a 360, now featuring lots of articles about how Teresa May is a strong confident woman doing the best for her country, and how the deal she has bent over and taken full girth without so much as a whimper of resistance Won't be that bad in the end, probably.

Anyone who thought there was a elitist/media/bankers/lizards stitch up pushing back towards the "right" result is really being proven right this week.

I really thought the British people were better than easily manipulated mouth breathers, I remain optimistic.

[number 46]

HarryW said:

But hasn't that been part of the second referendum game plan all along, it's coming to fruition, well done team TB who's been pulling the strings behind the scenes since day one...

That's is exactly what's happening, May together with the EU, are pushing us towards a second referendum, we will never leave. Parliament will reject the WA and then a second referendum will be suggested as the only solution.

The EU will let us cancel article 50, and we will stay. Tusk said this a few days ago, that the option to stay is available and is the EU's preferred option. Of course this is dependent on us voting remain in the second referendum!!! The next few months will see a much more powerful effort by government together with Sky and the BBC to scare us into voting remain.

[saaby93]

Jimboka said:

Interesting Proples Vote stand in the PMs own constituency High Street today. Inviting passers-by to indicate their preferences on a chart. I’d say 75% of the responses were anti Brexit & pro Proples Vote. Much like the PM deep down I reckon..
The way things are going, Mrs May will struggle to be an MP, let alone PM

The problem with doing surveys like that is that what youre really testing is what people make of the news coverage

[Frank7]

I have a kind of idea how I’d like it all to be when the dust settles, BUT, I wanted U.K. to remain in the E.U. in the first place.
What I don’t understand, is how, with all those allegedly intelligent politicians in Parliament, we are still tearing our hair out, when we could have asked PH what to do.
It’s patently obvious that that a bunch of car nuts know best, or so they seem to think, come on Theresa, invite them over to straighten it all out.

[anonymous-user]

Frank7 said:

I have a kind of idea how I’d like it all to be when the dust settles, BUT, I wanted U.K. to remain in the E.U. in the first place.
What I don’t understand, is how, with all those allegedly intelligent politicians in Parliament, we are still tearing our hair out, when we could have asked PH what to do.
It’s patently obvious that that a bunch of car nuts know best, or so they seem to think, come on Theresa, invite them over to straighten it all out.

Frank I'd have you as the boss no problem. We'd live in a one love sybaritic world.

Sort it out, mon ami.

[JagLover]

Stigproducts said:

The con began when the talk of hard vs soft started getting any kind of consideration. Hard brexit, as far as I can tell is exactly what it said in the government leaflet that laid out what people were voting for, the "consequences" if citizens made the "wrong" choice. Leave the customs union, leave the single market

Talk of soft brexit is just weasal words for reneging on what was offered, slowing pushing it back and that's exactly what has been going on, until we get the absolute joke of a "deal" Teresa May came up with this week

Culminating today when i heard a caller on Any Answers saying that seeing as Teresa Mays deal is so bad we should start fresh with a new outlook and have a second referendum with choices being 'No deal' or 'remain'. So exactly the same as last time then.

The media have all been spoken to as well. The Daily Mail for example have done a 360, now featuring lots of articles about how Teresa May is a strong confident woman doing the best for her country, and how the deal she has bent over and taken full girth without so much as a whimper of resistance Won't be that bad in the end, probably.

Anyone who thought there was a elitist/media/bankers/lizards stitch up pushing back towards the "right" result is really being proven right this week.

I really thought the British people were better than easily manipulated mouth breathers, I remain optimistic.

Which leads us back to Corbyn i'm afraid. I would never vote for him as he is a terrorist supporter (which he is despite all the contortions his supporters go through to pretend otherwise), but who is the only anti-establishment party leader?, who is the only one that will offer some hope to betrayed voters that the wealthy elite who seem to have bought our democracy will be penalised.

Not my own preference, because ,as I have said before, I merely want to be able to go down to my local polling station and vote for a centre right party that is going to govern in the interests of the people. The Conservatives are proving that they are not that party.

[PurpleMoonlight]

JagLover said:

Which leads us back to Corbyn i'm afraid. I would never vote for him as he is a terrorist supporter (which he is despite all the contortions his supporters go through to pretend otherwise), but who is the only anti-establishment party leader?, who is the only one that will offer some hope to betrayed voters that the wealthy elite who seem to have bought our democracy will be penalised.

Not my own preference, because ,as I have said before, I merely want to be able to go down to my local polling station and vote for a centre right party that is going to govern in the interests of the people. The Conservatives are proving that they are not that party.

No party in history has ever done that.

They all govern to their particular bias. None are worth voting for.

[psi310398]

Helicopter123 said:

Good post.

Brexit is becoming toxic and any politician who stands by it is risking political extinction.

Brexit is already toxic and any politician who abandons it is also facing political extinction.

[JuniorD]

number 46 said:

That's is exactly what's happening, May together with the EU, are pushing us towards a second referendum, we will never leave. Parliament will reject the WA and then a second referendum will be suggested as the only solution.

The EU will let us cancel article 50, and we will stay. Tusk said this a few days ago, that the option to stay is available and is the EU's preferred option. Of course this is dependent on us voting remain in the second referendum!!! The next few months will see a much more powerful effort by government together with Sky and the BBC to scare us into voting remain.

I hope you are correct!

[psi310398]

Analysis of the draft deal and TM's broken promises on ConHome:

https://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2018...

[EddieSteadyGo]

psi310398 said:

Analysis of the draft deal and TM's broken promises on ConHome:

https://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2018...

And yet, despite all of that, Tim Montgomerie has gone on record saying he would support May's deal....

[psi310398]

EddieSteadyGo said:

And yet, despite all of that, Tim Montgomerie has gone on record saying he would support May's deal....

Sure, there are any number of reasons for supporting the deal. It does not mean that TM hasn't repeated lied to get to this position.