Discussion
psi310398 said:
EddieSteadyGo said:
And yet, despite all of that, Tim Montgomerie has gone on record saying he would support May's deal....
Sure, there are any number of reasons for supporting the deal. It does not mean that TM hasn't repeated lied to get to this position.Isn't that what people voted for.
Ghibli said:
It's hardly lying. We will no longer be a member when we enter the transition period, we will have already left and we can start negotiating a trade deal with the EU and with the ROW.
Isn't that what people voted for.
That's what keeps being missedIsn't that what people voted for.
We are leaving the EU on 29th March 2019 - no ifs and no buts
What this deal is about is how afterwards to keep trade going with the EU and as part of that resolving the issue of no hard border with Ireland.
Stigproducts said:
Talk of soft brexit is just weasal words for reneging on what was offered, slowing pushing it back and that's exactly what has been going on, until we get the absolute joke of a "deal"....
Anyone who thought there was a elitist/media/bankers/lizards stitch up pushing back towards the "right" result is really being proven right this week.
Yep. And Farage and a few others warned of this right from day one.Anyone who thought there was a elitist/media/bankers/lizards stitch up pushing back towards the "right" result is really being proven right this week.
saaby93 said:
That's what keeps being missed
We are leaving the EU on 29th March 2019 - no ifs and no buts
What this deal is about is how afterwards to keep trade going with the EU and as part of that resolving the issue of no hard border with Ireland.
If the leave referendum campaign is to be believed we will be negotiating our ROW free trade agreements in 18 months. The EU will then be in a position to establish what agreements they have with us.We are leaving the EU on 29th March 2019 - no ifs and no buts
What this deal is about is how afterwards to keep trade going with the EU and as part of that resolving the issue of no hard border with Ireland.
If we leave with no deal we will still have the same task ahead with more problems to resolve.
zb said:
Let me state quite unequivocally I am not a Conservative, I have never voted Conservative, I cannot ever see myself voting Conservative, my politics would be centre/socialist.
Right now Theresa May is the best of a very, very rum lot.
I don't see any serious alternatives. Reese-Mogg is a jumped up prefect, quite content to blow raspberries from the sidelines, there is nothing "leadership" about him, he has no vision other than what would best suit whatever hedge fund he has his money in. Boris Johnston is the highest educated idiot I've ever know, he was blind sided and stabbed in the back by Michael Gove, read that last bit again, slowly, and consider it.
Therefore, I should favour Corbyn, if my politics are Socialist leaning? Corbyn doesn't have a thought in his head, he use to be indecisive, now he's not so sure. One of the barometers when I consider a Prime Minister's suitability is how happy would I be with them sitting down with Putin. Putin would give Corbyn a wedgy (I'll leave parallels with red Foot and Russian agents for another day).
Sadly, all the heavyweights of the New Labour era are gone, and to a large extent this is true of Tories, Ken Clarke's day has past too.
This is what were are left with.
As ever, this internecine warfare over Europe threatens to tear Tories and the country apart.
I have absolutely no idea if this "deal" is good, bad or indifferent. I'll wager 99% of the population doesn't either. Sure I've read as much as I can, however, until it (if) is actually implemented no-one knows the economic outcome, despite what they may claim .
This has been foisted on us by a lot of scared people and cynical opportunist, harking back to days of Empire that'll never return, no matter how much the pine. The world has changed.
As you may have gathered, I voted remain. Not through any idealist vision of a united Europe, I was content with the status quo, as I did not see any advantage in leaving, and saw through the patent lies of the leave crew. Yet I didn't think we got a particularly good deal from Europe.
Now that we have voted to leave, we need to leave, for good or ill. No second votes, an about turn now would put us in an even weaker position, like a batter wife going back into an abusive relationship, it is not better for us to stick together for the sake of the kids.
Back to the original point: Theresa May has earned my grudging respect, lesser mortals would have chucked it after the conference fiasco last year. She's like the bloody terminator, and I'm thoroughly sick of the absolute s
te and chaos these brexit s have foisted on us. If they oust May, I hope this is also the end of the Tories as a cohesive unit. As John Major so eloquently put it; bds
I agree with pretty much most of this. I am not socialist leaning mind. At the last election I didn't vote, for the first time in my life. I have never voted blue. On the flipside JC will never get my vote. I voted TB in the 90's and noughties. If (for EG) Chuka Umunna was Labour Leader I'd vote their way in a heartbeat to try and get rid of the current sorry mob. Right now Theresa May is the best of a very, very rum lot.
I don't see any serious alternatives. Reese-Mogg is a jumped up prefect, quite content to blow raspberries from the sidelines, there is nothing "leadership" about him, he has no vision other than what would best suit whatever hedge fund he has his money in. Boris Johnston is the highest educated idiot I've ever know, he was blind sided and stabbed in the back by Michael Gove, read that last bit again, slowly, and consider it.
Therefore, I should favour Corbyn, if my politics are Socialist leaning? Corbyn doesn't have a thought in his head, he use to be indecisive, now he's not so sure. One of the barometers when I consider a Prime Minister's suitability is how happy would I be with them sitting down with Putin. Putin would give Corbyn a wedgy (I'll leave parallels with red Foot and Russian agents for another day).
Sadly, all the heavyweights of the New Labour era are gone, and to a large extent this is true of Tories, Ken Clarke's day has past too.
This is what were are left with.
As ever, this internecine warfare over Europe threatens to tear Tories and the country apart.
I have absolutely no idea if this "deal" is good, bad or indifferent. I'll wager 99% of the population doesn't either. Sure I've read as much as I can, however, until it (if) is actually implemented no-one knows the economic outcome, despite what they may claim .
This has been foisted on us by a lot of scared people and cynical opportunist, harking back to days of Empire that'll never return, no matter how much the pine. The world has changed.
As you may have gathered, I voted remain. Not through any idealist vision of a united Europe, I was content with the status quo, as I did not see any advantage in leaving, and saw through the patent lies of the leave crew. Yet I didn't think we got a particularly good deal from Europe.
Now that we have voted to leave, we need to leave, for good or ill. No second votes, an about turn now would put us in an even weaker position, like a batter wife going back into an abusive relationship, it is not better for us to stick together for the sake of the kids.
Back to the original point: Theresa May has earned my grudging respect, lesser mortals would have chucked it after the conference fiasco last year. She's like the bloody terminator, and I'm thoroughly sick of the absolute s
te and chaos these brexit s have foisted on us. If they oust May, I hope this is also the end of the Tories as a cohesive unit. As John Major so eloquently put it; bdsAlso I agree that JRM and BJ are the most dangerous thing which could happen to the Tories right now. Their lovable personas are only surface deep.
PurpleMoonlight said:
JagLover said:
Which leads us back to Corbyn i'm afraid. I would never vote for him as he is a terrorist supporter (which he is despite all the contortions his supporters go through to pretend otherwise), but who is the only anti-establishment party leader?, who is the only one that will offer some hope to betrayed voters that the wealthy elite who seem to have bought our democracy will be penalised.
Not my own preference, because ,as I have said before, I merely want to be able to go down to my local polling station and vote for a centre right party that is going to govern in the interests of the people. The Conservatives are proving that they are not that party.
No party in history has ever done that.Not my own preference, because ,as I have said before, I merely want to be able to go down to my local polling station and vote for a centre right party that is going to govern in the interests of the people. The Conservatives are proving that they are not that party.
They all govern to their particular bias. None are worth voting for.
He was also made a member of the Order of Merit and a Knight of the Garter. He was one of only four British prime ministers to receive both of these high honours.
hyphen said:
Zac Goldsmith has put in his letter.
So we are up to something like 25 MPs. Not exactly the promised groundswell.... The chaps on here arguing May's deal is a "betrayal" etc etc need to explain how they would get their preferred type of deal agreed in parliament.
And did you see Corbyn on Sky this morning hinting at a second referendum? I've said it before, but if a version of May's deal doesn't get agreed, we will likely have another general election and then most likely a second referendum. Would that really be better than May's deal?
EddieSteadyGo said:
hyphen said:
Zac Goldsmith has put in his letter.
So we are up to something like 25 MPs. Not exactly the promised groundswell.... The chaps on here arguing May's deal is a "betrayal" etc etc need to explain how they would get their preferred type of deal agreed in parliament.
And did you see Corbyn on Sky this morning hinting at a second referendum? I've said it before, but if a version of May's deal doesn't get agreed, we are likely have another general election and then most likely a second referendum. Would that really be better than May's deal?
Wail reporting that GE plans are in place, local offices in marginal constituencies have been offered free campaign managers. Preferred candidates being put on place and so on.
Edited by hyphen on Sunday 18th November 09:48
Watching her on Sophy Ridge now is honestly making me want to put my foot through the TV.
She's sitting there saying about how we're absolutely leaving the EU, and we're getting a more ambitious deal than Norway. When in fact she's signing us up to something that means we follow MORE rules than Norway, with LESS say in making them, and no unilateral exit mechanism.
Grrrrrr.
Hopefully it'll fail to get through parliament, but I'm not totally confident in that.
She's sitting there saying about how we're absolutely leaving the EU, and we're getting a more ambitious deal than Norway. When in fact she's signing us up to something that means we follow MORE rules than Norway, with LESS say in making them, and no unilateral exit mechanism.
Grrrrrr.
Hopefully it'll fail to get through parliament, but I'm not totally confident in that.
EddieSteadyGo said:
SNIP
The chaps on here arguing May's deal is a "betrayal" etc etc need to explain how they would get their preferred type of deal agreed.
SNIP
Actually, all they need to do is gum up all the others and no deal happens.The chaps on here arguing May's deal is a "betrayal" etc etc need to explain how they would get their preferred type of deal agreed.
SNIP
Given that 25 is more than enough to bring the government down, there’s little May could do.
They don’t then need to vote in favour of a GE and I can’t see the Tory remainders voting to bring about their own demise either. TM will go overboard idc.
Blue Oval84 said:
Watching her on Sophy Ridge now is honestly making me want to put my foot through the TV.
She's sitting there saying about how we're absolutely leaving the EU, and we're getting a more ambitious deal than Norway. When in fact she's signing us up to something that means we follow MORE rules than Norway, with LESS say in making them, and no unilateral exit mechanism.
Grrrrrr.
Hopefully it'll fail to get through parliament, but I'm not totally confident in that.
Listening to how steadfast she is, how determined she is, how sure she is - I can't help thinking, are we missing something here with regard to this deal.She's sitting there saying about how we're absolutely leaving the EU, and we're getting a more ambitious deal than Norway. When in fact she's signing us up to something that means we follow MORE rules than Norway, with LESS say in making them, and no unilateral exit mechanism.
Grrrrrr.
Hopefully it'll fail to get through parliament, but I'm not totally confident in that.
Is it the final deal? Apparently not. Is the WA just a temporary arrangement, as she says, and better things are just around the corner at the end of it?
I dunno. A bit confused.
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