What a disaster the Tories are.

[jonnyb]

dbdb said:

MarshPhantom said:

Their fault we are leaving Europe.

The idiots have taken over.

I must admit I feel like this too, not that it makes a bit of difference to anything. The margin to leave the EU may have been a small one but it seems to have changed everything. Politics seems to have veered into the extremes and to be immeasurably coarsened. No doubt I will be laughed at by most of the posters here and they will sincerely enjoy my distress, but I genuinely do feel that my beloved country has been stolen and hijacked by cavemen. I now understand how my grandfather felt in the 1970s when he described the country as, "going to the dogs"; for him it was militant trades unionism, for me it is militant Brexiteers. To my shame I voted Conservative at the last election (and the previous one and the one before that etc. etc.) but I will not do so again.

Of course Labour has shown the worst possible timing for its own crash into the extremist undergrowth. Under Corbyn, Labour are not a viable alternative to anything and their only usefulness is as a cautionary tale. It is a warning the Conservative party should heed. UKIP is the Tory party's 'Momentum'. By embracing a Hard/Closed Brexit and damaging the economy, moderate Tories like me will desert them. The Conservative Right may think this does not matter or may even consider it a good thing to lose the Tory Left - but it does matter since long-term the casting votes are found in the Centre ground and I don't think Brexit will change this.

Theresa May by setting out a Hard Brexit stall for her negotiations has closed down many of her options - which is why the Hard Right is so jubilant and so enthusiastic about her as leader. I feel this is at best inept and her inflexibility and aggressiveness towards opponents is reminiscent of Gordon Brown. Like Brown, I feel Theresa May is at her high water mark right at the start of her premiership, before the harsh realities of her situation manifest themselves. If she were to fight a General Election now, before the realities of the new-normal show themselves, I feel she would win it with a much improved majority. This is the period of 'phoney-war'; it will not last. The next two years will be one of reckoning. If the wheels fall off, then May's Government will unravel quickly. She has many enemies and seems hell-bent on creating even more.

Of course, if her Hard Brexit works - or if it is just a negotiating position for a more sensible exit - then history will be kind to her.

This pretty much sums up my feelings too.

To my shame also a life long Conservative voter, not any more.

[Eric Mc]

In actual fact, now that the deed has been done, perhaps some of the more xenophobic rhetoric and heat has actually diminished.

[The Don of Croy]

MarshPhantom said:

Their fault we are leaving Europe.

The idiots have taken over.

Strange thread.

Please elucidate.

[dazwalsh]

DavidJG said:

And when we do, and the economy gets really bad, and c.1M people join the ranks of the unemployed, the leavers will blame the EU / America / Russia / immigrants etc - never once admitting that leaving the EU was in reality a huge step in the wrong direction.

Me & my family? We're leaving the nasty little xenophobic nation the the UK has become (or has always been, but is now more open about). Just trying to decide exactly where to go... Canada, Australia, NZ are all looking good at present, but options within Europe also being actively considered......

I think you pulled the first paragraph from your arse, how do you know thats going to happen?

Are you not jumping the gun a little with your swift exit?

[JawKnee]

ThunderGuts said:

JawKnee said:

The pound being trashed isn't scare mongering, it's happening.

Of course you accept the flash crash wasn't due to Brexit don't you. That only happened because someone spilt their G&T on their robot.

We're still heading in the direction of the flash crash lows and then some. Bloomberg now wondering if we could reach parity next year with the dollar! This is entirely Brexit related.

The FTSE 100 is climbing but only in response to our currency tanking as opposed to any fundamental improvement in the health of our economy. If you index the FTSE 100 against the dollar it is still down around 6% this year.

Project Fact.

[Johnnytheboy]

Hoofy said:

They were, however, happy to let us have a vote on it 30 years ago when we voted to join the EU.

We were already a member of the Common Market when we had the last referendum (as opposed to the EU).

Heath got us in without a referendum in 1973, the 1975 one was for whether we should leave or not, like this year's.

[Smollet]

Plenty of pundits last year were saying the £ was overvalued. Perhaps this is its true level and Brexit just poked it that direction

[sidicks]

DavidJG said:

And when we do, and the economy gets really bad, and c.1M people join the ranks of the unemployed, the leavers will blame the EU / America / Russia / immigrants etc - never once admitting that leaving the EU was in reality a huge step in the wrong direction.

Me & my family? We're leaving the nasty little xenophobic nation the the UK has become (or has always been, but is now more open about). Just trying to decide exactly where to go... Canada, Australia, NZ are all looking good at present, but options within Europe also being actively considered......

There's another Brexit bonus I hadn't expected!

[Hosenbugler]

Smollet said:

Plenty of pundits last year were saying the £ was overvalued. Perhaps this is its true level and Brexit just poked it that direction

Mervyn King is certainly very upbeat about it.

[ThunderGuts]

JawKnee said:

We're still heading in the direction of the flash crash lows and then some. Bloomberg now wondering if we could reach parity next year with the dollar! This is entirely Brexit related.

The FTSE 100 is climbing but only in response to our currency tanking as opposed to any fundamental improvement in the health of our economy. If you index the FTSE 100 against the dollar it is still down around 6% this year.

Project Fact.

Can you set out why this would mean the end to life as we know it.

[Eric Mc]

We very nearly hit parity with the Dollar back in 1984. It wasn't the end of the world then either.

[alfie2244]

DavidJG said:

Me & my family? We're leaving the nasty little xenophobic nation the the UK has become (or has always been, but is now more open about). Just trying to decide exactly where to go... Canada, Australia, NZ are all looking good at present, but options within Europe also being actively considered......

You should be ok in the EU countries but don't the others you mention have certain criteria (bit like ours will be hopefully) for allowing immigrants?

[ThunderGuts]

alfie2244 said:

DavidJG said:

Me & my family? We're leaving the nasty little xenophobic nation the the UK has become (or has always been, but is now more open about). Just trying to decide exactly where to go... Canada, Australia, NZ are all looking good at present, but options within Europe also being actively considered......

You should be ok in the EU countries but don't the others you mention have certain criteria (bit like ours will be hopefully) for allowing immigrants?

Yup, see my post above.

[DavidJG]

sidicks said:

DavidJG said:

And when we do, and the economy gets really bad, and c.1M people join the ranks of the unemployed, the leavers will blame the EU / America / Russia / immigrants etc - never once admitting that leaving the EU was in reality a huge step in the wrong direction.

Me & my family? We're leaving the nasty little xenophobic nation the the UK has become (or has always been, but is now more open about). Just trying to decide exactly where to go... Canada, Australia, NZ are all looking good at present, but options within Europe also being actively considered......

There's another Brexit bonus I hadn't expected!

Except that when I go, the folks who I employ will be out of work. I can only hope that sidicks loses his income / livelihood / career too, simply 'cause he's one of those people who can't accept people who have a point of view that's different to his, especially when he's being a dick.

[Hosenbugler]

DavidJG said:

And when we do, and the economy gets really bad, and c.1M people join the ranks of the unemployed, the leavers will blame the EU / America / Russia / immigrants etc - never once admitting that leaving the EU was in reality a huge step in the wrong direction.

Me & my family? We're leaving the nasty little xenophobic nation the the UK has become (or has always been, but is now more open about). Just trying to decide exactly where to go... Canada, Australia, NZ are all looking good at present, but options within Europe also being actively considered......

It certainly will be a little less nasty once you have gone. Hopefully soon, as you will no doubt agree.

[alock]

JawKnee said:

We're still heading in the direction of the flash crash lows and then some. Bloomberg now wondering if we could reach parity next year with the dollar! This is entirely Brexit related.

I can't wait. Working for a computer software company, our product is 100% manufactured in the UK and 70% of our sales are in the US, with the rest being in the UK.

[DavidJG]

jonnyb said:

This pretty much sums up my feelings too.

To my shame also a life long Conservative voter, not any more.

Same here. I'm still struggling to understand what the party I have always supported / voted for has become in the last three months. I suspect that most people won't realise until it's too late, and significant damage has been done to this country and its people (well, those people who're not "British Born" at least).

The conservative party has actually become "the nasty party". In the past, I've stood up for the conservatives as being anything but "the nasty party", but no longer.

[alfie2244]

ThunderGuts said:

alfie2244 said:

DavidJG said:

Me & my family? We're leaving the nasty little xenophobic nation the the UK has become (or has always been, but is now more open about). Just trying to decide exactly where to go... Canada, Australia, NZ are all looking good at present, but options within Europe also being actively considered......

You should be ok in the EU countries but don't the others you mention have certain criteria (bit like ours will be hopefully) for allowing immigrants?

Yup, see my post above.

Missed that sorry......did your friends try any of the other countries mentioned or did they just give up now Armageddon hasn't materialised as predicted?

[johnxjsc1985]

Hosenbugler said:

It certainly will be a little less nasty once you have gone. Hopefully soon, as you will no doubt agree.

quite happy for people like that to leave what we need is people pulling together not continuously pointing fingers and calling everyone a racist.

[DavidJG]

alfie2244 said:

DavidJG said:

Me & my family? We're leaving the nasty little xenophobic nation the the UK has become (or has always been, but is now more open about). Just trying to decide exactly where to go... Canada, Australia, NZ are all looking good at present, but options within Europe also being actively considered......

You should be ok in the EU countries but don't the others you mention have certain criteria (bit like ours will be hopefully) for allowing immigrants?

Oh, we have no difficulty hitting the criteria for any of them. No difficulty at all