Richmond Park by-election.

[B'stard Child]

RYH64E said:

B'stard Child said:

OK but there were several areas that had percentages voting to leave at over 70%

Area	Place	% Leave
East Midlands	Bolsover	70.83
East Midlands	Mansfield	70.86
East	Fenland	71.39
East	Great Yarmouth	71.5
East	Thurrock	72.28
East	Castle Point	72.7
East Midlands	South Holland	73.59
East Midlands	Boston	75.56

Gibraltar had the Highest percentage to remain at 95%

Richmond were a distant 17th in the order of percentages to remain.....

Seems hard to justify the comparison on that basis??

Of the areas in your table, are there any where you'd choose to live?

Any of them would be fine - I already live in East Anglia - is that not the same for you?

RYH64E said:

The point was made in response to your comment about change, I was suggesting that those living a comfortable, affluent life in leafy Richmond are less likely to vote for change than the good people of Boston, or Great Yarmouth, or Mansfield, or Thurrock.

You don't need to justify it - I accept your reasoning

RYH64E said:

I'm not suggesting that change was the only reason why people voted as they did, but it was certainly a factor, as was the desire to stick two fingers up to the establishment (something else that the good folk of Richmond didn't feel the need to do).

30% of the good people of Richmond did vote leave..... Every single one of their votes counted - were they not good folk? were they all sticking two fingers up to the establishment?

[jjlynn27]

CaptainSlow said:

jjlynn27 said:

CaptainSlow said:

jjlynn27 said:

The one where Patrick O'Flynn had to interrupt the interview? How would you call that?

He didn't need to interrupt, and if you watch it Farage told him to go away because he wanted to continue answering a question.

Farage was getting destroyed, his corner threw the towel in to save him from getting pummelled to oblivion.

Then again if you are getting your thoughts from order-order, your position is unsurprising.

Rubbish, that wasn't s pummelling at all. The interviewer was the one being shown u for regurgitating the same rubbish.

Fair enough if you don't like Farage but don't ever accuse him of not being able to answer a straight question when all other politicians dodge and weave to avoid exposing their lack of intelligence and knowledge.

And btw order-order weren't the interviewers...maybe expand your reading beyond the Guardian.

Beyond Guardian eh?

• Newstatesman; Nigel Farage's disastrous interview on LBC
• Telegraph; Nigel Farage in car-crash interview
• Spectator; Nigel Farage's car crash interview on LBC
• Standard; Nigel Farage's comms chief steps in after car crash LBC interview
• DailyMail; See the highlights of Nigel Farage's car crash interview on LBC
• Independent; Nigel Farage's 'car-crash' LBC interview halted by Ukip spin doctor

This is just page 1 from google.

So, all these papers are wrong and you are right, or, NF was actually decimated to the point that UKIP comms guy was desperate to stop the carnage, but you can't see that.

Which one is more likely?

The problem with blind adoration is that it tends to put rather tight blinkers on you.

Maybe expand your reading beyond the order-order?

[Pooh]

RYH64E said:

I've made sure that the current system works well for me, I'm very content, there's nothing I want that I haven't got or couldn't get. I don't need change, maybe if I lived in Boston I'd think differently.

So you voted purely on the basis of your own self interest? I voted leave despite believing that a leave vote would probably be bad for me and my fledgling business, especially in the short term.
I voted leave because I think that it is in the best long term interests of the country as a whole.
Events may prove that that belief was wrong but it is the conclusion I came to after a lot of consideration.

[CaptainSlow]

jjlynn27 said:

Beyond Guardian eh?

• Newstatesman; Nigel Farage's disastrous interview on LBC
• Telegraph; Nigel Farage in car-crash interview
• Spectator; Nigel Farage's car crash interview on LBC
• Standard; Nigel Farage's comms chief steps in after car crash LBC interview
• DailyMail; See the highlights of Nigel Farage's car crash interview on LBC
• Independent; Nigel Farage's 'car-crash' LBC interview halted by Ukip spin doctor

This is just page 1 from google.

So, all these papers are wrong and you are right, or, NF was actually decimated to the point that UKIP comms guy was desperate to stop the carnage, but you can't see that.

Which one is more likely?

The problem with blind adoration is that it tends to put rather tight blinkers on you.

Maybe expand your reading beyond the order-order?

I think you've already said that, which I replied that it wasn't an order-order interview of LD MP.

I don't base my opinion on any media spin, I watched the NF interview and formed my own, maybe you could do the same, or not.

[Pooh]

Mario149 said:

jonnyb said:

ClaphamGT3 said:

RYH64E said:

There's now a significant percentage of long standing Conservative voters, myself included, whose vote can no longer be relied upon.

I have been a Tory all my adult life but Theresa May's Tory party has never felt less like my party. I - and a large number of people that I know, are erring much more towards the Lib Dems.

I have been a life long conservative voter, no longer.

Already said this in another thread, but me too.

It sounds like I have a similar background but still intend to vote Conservative so I am genuinely curios why you are all so anti the Tories under May, is it because you are remainers or some other reason?

[RYH64E]

Pooh said:

So you voted purely on the basis of your own self interest? I voted leave despite believing that a leave vote would probably be bad for me and my fledgling business, especially in the short term.
I voted leave because I think that it is in the best long term interests of the country as a whole.
Events may prove that that belief was wrong but it is the conclusion I came to after a lot of consideration.

Absolutely, that's exactly what I did. I also happen to think that what's good for me and my business is good for other businesses and hence the country, but what's good for me and my family is my main consideration in this and everything else I do. No apologies for that.

[jjlynn27]

CaptainSlow said:

jjlynn27 said:

Beyond Guardian eh?

• Newstatesman; Nigel Farage's disastrous interview on LBC
• Telegraph; Nigel Farage in car-crash interview
• Spectator; Nigel Farage's car crash interview on LBC
• Standard; Nigel Farage's comms chief steps in after car crash LBC interview
• DailyMail; See the highlights of Nigel Farage's car crash interview on LBC
• Independent; Nigel Farage's 'car-crash' LBC interview halted by Ukip spin doctor

This is just page 1 from google.

So, all these papers are wrong and you are right, or, NF was actually decimated to the point that UKIP comms guy was desperate to stop the carnage, but you can't see that.

Which one is more likely?

The problem with blind adoration is that it tends to put rather tight blinkers on you.

Maybe expand your reading beyond the order-order?

I think you've already said that, which I replied that it wasn't an order-order interview of LD MP.

I don't base my opinion on any media spin, I watched the NF interview and formed my own, maybe you could do the same, or not.

So, all of the above are wrong, or they've seen different interview? That's why it's pointless to discuss things with deeply religious.

I've seen the interview, and it was unmitigated disaster.

[B'stard Child]

Pooh said:

RYH64E said:

I've made sure that the current system works well for me, I'm very content, there's nothing I want that I haven't got or couldn't get. I don't need change, maybe if I lived in Boston I'd think differently.

So you voted purely on the basis of your own self interest? I voted leave despite believing that a leave vote would probably be bad for me and my fledgling business, especially in the short term.
I voted leave because I think that it is in the best long term interests of the country as a whole.
Events may prove that that belief was wrong but it is the conclusion I came to after a lot of consideration.

Bingo

My reason to vote leave number 7 Evaluation of the financial consequences of leaving - where did they get these numbers from - they took the worst case of the worst case and then added a factor to compensate for error before adding a bit more just in case - it is frankly mental - at my age I am better placed to weather any financial storm but I am not the one that will have to live with this decision long term so it should not be a vote for selfish reasons. The campaign is attempting to bully the public into voting in the way it recommends - why is it so frightened?

[jmorgan]

tdog7 said:

jmorgan said:

I have met some very well educated idiots over the years.

I'm so sorry, I forgot that the leave camp had 'had enough of experts' as Michael Gove so eloquently put it. Dismissing the value of education and knowledge probably does help if you want to be a brexiter though. (and before anyone gets too upset, I do acknowledge there are some valid reasons for leaving the EU)

Wasn't meant as anything other than qualifications can't be taken as a direct example of the persons ability in the real world, at least not as a given.

The vote figures have blip in 2015, maybe the next general election the result would have been the same. That part of the world has been liberal since its inception apart from the aforementioned blip.

[Pooh]

RYH64E said:

Pooh said:

So you voted purely on the basis of your own self interest? I voted leave despite believing that a leave vote would probably be bad for me and my fledgling business, especially in the short term.
I voted leave because I think that it is in the best long term interests of the country as a whole.
Events may prove that that belief was wrong but it is the conclusion I came to after a lot of consideration.

Absolutely, that's exactly what I did. I also happen to think that what's good for me and my business is good for other businesses and hence the country, but what's good for me and my family is my main consideration in this and everything else I do. No apologies for that.

Fair enough, some of us clearly take a wider view, I have always voted based upon what I believe is best for the country rather than my own narrow self interest and what is best for me and my business is not necessarily what is best for the long term future of the country.

[RYH64E]

B'stard Child said:

why is it so frightened?

Maybe because most (not all, obviously) leading politicians, economists and business people genuinely believe that Brexit is going to be a disaster for the country?

[CaptainSlow]

jjlynn27 said:

So, all of the above are wrong, or they've seen different interview? That's why it's pointless to discuss things with deeply religious.

I've seen the interview, and it was unmitigated disaster.

To be honest, I think it's you that is wearing the blinkers, but I suppose it's easier to moronically call others "deeply religious".

NF didn't do a runner and also stopped his colleague from interrupting him because he want to continue the discussion and clarify his position. To call it a disaster is pretty desperate. A disaster is walking out your first radio interview after you've been briefed what the questions were in advance.

Compare NF to other politicians that ignore difficult questions. An example that sticks to mind is Leanne Wood in the Leader debate in 2015, she constantly harped on about Defence spending at 6%, but when asked didn't actually know 6% of what.

[B'stard Child]

RYH64E said:

B'stard Child said:

why is it so frightened?

Maybe because most (not all, obviously) leading politicians, economists and business people genuinely believe that Brexut is going to be a disaster for the country?

Disaster - there it is again - it's an echo.......

I'll leave this here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QskYEt7GgXY

David Cameron's argument that the UK would be fine outside of the EU

[RYH64E]

B'stard Child said:

Disaster - there it is again - it's an echo.......

I'll leave this here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QskYEt7GgXY

David Cameron's argument that the UK would be fine outside of the EU

What would you expect him to say? Regardless of what he may think he has to offer a positive vision.

Again, the point of my post was to answer your question as to why the remain campaign is/was so frightened, not to express any particular opinion.

Edited by RYH64E on Saturday 3rd December 14:12

[B'stard Child]

RYH64E said:

B'stard Child said:

Disaster - there it is again - it's an echo.......

I'll leave this here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QskYEt7GgXY

David Cameron's argument that the UK would be fine outside of the EU

What would you expect him to say? Regardless of what he may think he has to offer a positive vision.

Again, the point of my post was to answer your question as to why the leave campaign is/was so frightened, not to express any particular opinion.

I was actually referring to the Remain camp being frightened of the consequences and ramping up the rhetoric.

Is it that they didn't have a positive vision to share for the UK in Europe??

[Phud]

RYH64E said:

What would you expect him to say? Regardless of what he may think he has to offer a positive vision.

Again, the point of my post was to answer your question as to why the leave campaign is/was so frightened, not to express any particular opinion.

RYH64E, can you please give me the vision of the future in the Eu that remain gave? Or was it always the status quo which would never change?

I ask because no remain person ever gave a vision of the remain future, just its better to be in

[RYH64E]

B'stard Child said:

I was actually referring to the Remain camp being frightened of the consequences and ramping up the rhetoric.

Is it that they didn't have a positive vision to share for the UK in Europe??

Sorry, my mistake, I meant remain.

[B'stard Child]

RYH64E said:

B'stard Child said:

I was actually referring to the Remain camp being frightened of the consequences and ramping up the rhetoric.

Is it that they didn't have a positive vision to share for the UK in Europe??

Sorry, my mistake, I meant remain.

No problem - I did think it strange?

[jjlynn27]

CaptainSlow said:

jjlynn27 said:

So, all of the above are wrong, or they've seen different interview? That's why it's pointless to discuss things with deeply religious.

I've seen the interview, and it was unmitigated disaster.

To be honest, I think it's you that is wearing the blinkers, but I suppose it's easier to moronically call others "deeply religious".

NF didn't do a runner and also stopped his colleague from interrupting him because he want to continue the discussion and clarify his position. To call it a disaster is pretty desperate. A disaster is walking out your first radio interview after you've been briefed what the questions were in advance.

Compare NF to other politicians that ignore difficult questions. An example that sticks to mind is Leanne Wood in the Leader debate in 2015, she constantly harped on about Defence spending at 6%, but when asked didn't actually know 6% of what.

Are you actually saying that all media outlets listed ( there is so much more ), they are all blinkered when calling that interview disaster and car crash? Seriously?

[CrutyRammers]

jjlynn27 said:

Beyond Guardian eh?

• Newstatesman; Nigel Farage's disastrous interview on LBC
• Telegraph; Nigel Farage in car-crash interview
• Spectator; Nigel Farage's car crash interview on LBC
• Standard; Nigel Farage's comms chief steps in after car crash LBC interview
• DailyMail; See the highlights of Nigel Farage's car crash interview on LBC
• Independent; Nigel Farage's 'car-crash' LBC interview halted by Ukip spin doctor

This is just page 1 from google.

So, all these papers are wrong and you are right, or, NF was actually decimated to the point that UKIP comms guy was desperate to stop the carnage, but you can't see that.

Which one is more likely?

The problem with blind adoration is that it tends to put rather tight blinkers on you.

Maybe expand your reading beyond the order-order?

You can also find lots of headlines saying he called for a second referendum, despite in fact saying the exact opposite. Best to watch the actual interviews rather than getting your news via headline writers.