White Flight and failing Integration

[B'stard Child]

vonuber said:

oilbethere said:

100% imagine breeding with blood relatives to keep wealth in the family.

Well it has kept them on the throne.

I was honestly waiting for that one

[oyster]

I couldn't even imagine the lives that some of the posters on this thread live. del mar as the OP stands out, but there are others too.
How can you live your daily life with such hatred of other human beings? How can that life be, in any way, happy and fulfilled?

My life is happier for knowing I don't get upset at sharing my space with people who don't conform to a narrow view of what it's like to be 'british' (deliberately used lower case).

I walked through Peckham town centre the other day - it was invigorating and refreshing. The sights, the smell, the noises, the chaos. Stopped to taste some foreign food - spicy as hell - hurt my tongue, but damn it was fun. People looked busy, looked happy, looked to be living their lives as busy as they can make them.

As a contrast I was in Guildford at the weekend. The streets looked like hospital corridors, sanitised and homogenous. No noise, no smells. People trudged rather than whizzed. There was no sense of adventure, it was like they were unhappy with life, yet they live in one of the richest parts of one of the richest countries in the world.

Monoculturism is not what we need, multiculturism is just fine.

[Piha]

oyster said:

I couldn't even imagine the lives that some of the posters on this thread live. del mar as the OP stands out, but there are others too.
How can you live your daily life with such hatred of other human beings? How can that life be, in any way, happy and fulfilled?

My life is happier for knowing I don't get upset at sharing my space with people who don't conform to a narrow view of what it's like to be 'british' (deliberately used lower case).

I walked through Peckham town centre the other day - it was invigorating and refreshing. The sights, the smell, the noises, the chaos. Stopped to taste some foreign food - spicy as hell - hurt my tongue, but damn it was fun. People looked busy, looked happy, looked to be living their lives as busy as they can make them.

As a contrast I was in Guildford at the weekend. The streets looked like hospital corridors, sanitised and homogenous. No noise, no smells. People trudged rather than whizzed. There was no sense of adventure, it was like they were unhappy with life, yet they live in one of the richest parts of one of the richest countries in the world.

Monoculturism is not what we need, multiculturism is just fine.

I live in Guildford and I won't claim that Peckham and Guildford are the same demographic however I think your observations are based on an economic observation rather than diversity (but happy to be proved wrong). I have close neighbours from Poland, Columbia, N.Z, S.A, Sri Lanka, Pakistan, Central Asia, Spain, France, Cote d'Ivoire, Italy, China, India and all 4 home nations. The kids play together and there is often a small group of people on the local green that resembles the league of nations! After British I would guess that Chines is the next largest ethnic group in Guildford.

The town centre has a plethora of shops catering for the different nationalities that live around here. The university is awash with Chinese students and Guildford's businesses attract workers from all over the world. Local shops and businesses are owned by all manner of people - barbers = Turkish and Columbian, supermarkets = Polish, Indian, Chinese, restaurants = all the usual. Many of the people around where I live are business owners.

I have spent a lot of time working in Peckham (as well as other diverse areas of London) to know about these areas and I am able to enjoy them for what they are.

To be fair, there is a lot of pensioners in Guildford.

[Mothersruin]

oyster said:

I couldn't even imagine the lives that some of the posters on this thread live. del mar as the OP stands out, but there are others too.
How can you live your daily life with such hatred of other human beings? How can that life be, in any way, happy and fulfilled?

My life is happier for knowing I don't get upset at sharing my space with people who don't conform to a narrow view of what it's like to be 'british' (deliberately used lower case).

I walked through Peckham town centre the other day - it was invigorating and refreshing. The sights, the smell, the noises, the chaos. Stopped to taste some foreign food - spicy as hell - hurt my tongue, but damn it was fun. People looked busy, looked happy, looked to be living their lives as busy as they can make them.

As a contrast I was in Guildford at the weekend. The streets looked like hospital corridors, sanitised and homogenous. No noise, no smells. People trudged rather than whizzed. There was no sense of adventure, it was like they were unhappy with life, yet they live in one of the richest parts of one of the richest countries in the world.

Monoculturism is not what we need, multiculturism is just fine.

You'd hate my village, yet my wife from Bombay loves it - I like how this works.You stay there.

Btw - I love Bombay but I'm really glad it's on the end of a 11 hour flight. If she gets homesick, we pop to Birmingham. Then she realises why she left again. It's a sthole. Some nice people, but they live in a sthole.

[daddy cool]

oyster said:

I couldn't even imagine the lives that some of the posters on this thread live. del mar as the OP stands out, but there are others too.
How can you live your daily life with such hatred of other human beings? How can that life be, in any way, happy and fulfilled?

My life is happier for knowing I don't get upset at sharing my space with people who don't conform to a narrow view of what it's like to be 'british' (deliberately used lower case).

I walked through Peckham town centre the other day - it was invigorating and refreshing. The sights, the smell, the noises, the chaos. Stopped to taste some foreign food - spicy as hell - hurt my tongue, but damn it was fun. People looked busy, looked happy, looked to be living their lives as busy as they can make them.

As a contrast I was in Guildford at the weekend. The streets looked like hospital corridors, sanitised and homogenous. No noise, no smells. People trudged rather than whizzed. There was no sense of adventure, it was like they were unhappy with life, yet they live in one of the richest parts of one of the richest countries in the world.

Monoculturism is not what we need, multiculturism is just fine.

What a load of bks.

If you were a journalist doing a piece for the news, you would have footage of Peckham with bright saturated colours and plenty of white smiling teeth, lovely ethnic types high-fiving each other, and then black & white, slightly slowed-down footage of Guildford highstreet in the rain, people trudging along huddled under umbrellas, maybe a tramp being sick on himself in the background, with The Smiths' "Every Day is Like Sunday" playing over the top.

[The Dangerous Elk]

oyster said:

Monoculturism is not what we need, multiculturism is just fine.

And what when the drive to Multiculturism leads to Monoculterisium, what will you think then ?

[Mothersruin]

The Dangerous Elk said:

oyster said:

Monoculturism is not what we need, multiculturism is just fine.

And what when the drive to Multiculturism leads to Monoculterisium, what will you think then ?

That's inevitable.

[amusingduck]

daddy cool said:

oyster said:

I couldn't even imagine the lives that some of the posters on this thread live. del mar as the OP stands out, but there are others too.
How can you live your daily life with such hatred of other human beings? How can that life be, in any way, happy and fulfilled?

My life is happier for knowing I don't get upset at sharing my space with people who don't conform to a narrow view of what it's like to be 'british' (deliberately used lower case).

I walked through Peckham town centre the other day - it was invigorating and refreshing. The sights, the smell, the noises, the chaos. Stopped to taste some foreign food - spicy as hell - hurt my tongue, but damn it was fun. People looked busy, looked happy, looked to be living their lives as busy as they can make them.

As a contrast I was in Guildford at the weekend. The streets looked like hospital corridors, sanitised and homogenous. No noise, no smells. People trudged rather than whizzed. There was no sense of adventure, it was like they were unhappy with life, yet they live in one of the richest parts of one of the richest countries in the world.

Monoculturism is not what we need, multiculturism is just fine.

What a load of bks.

If you were a journalist doing a piece for the news, you would have footage of Peckham with bright saturated colours and plenty of white smiling teeth, lovely ethnic types high-fiving each other, and then black & white, slightly slowed-down footage of Guildford highstreet in the rain, people trudging along huddled under umbrellas, maybe a tramp being sick on himself in the background, with The Smiths' "Every Day is Like Sunday" playing over the top.

[Shay HTFC]

amusingduck said:

daddy cool said:

What a load of bks.

If you were a journalist doing a piece for the news, you would have footage of Peckham with bright saturated colours and plenty of white smiling teeth, lovely ethnic types high-fiving each other, and then black & white, slightly slowed-down footage of Guildford highstreet in the rain, people trudging along huddled under umbrellas, maybe a tramp being sick on himself in the background, with The Smiths' "Every Day is Like Sunday" playing over the top.

[oyster]

The Dangerous Elk said:

oyster said:

Monoculturism is not what we need, multiculturism is just fine.

And what when the drive to Multiculturism leads to Monoculterisium, what will you think then ?

Unless all the immigrants grow to love maypole dancing and overcooked meats I suspect monoculture will never happen.

[Halb]

I come from a little mono-culture village, I'm a bit of a bumpkin, I like it, there is nothing wrong with it. I think in recent times it has started to change, but on a microscopic level. When I started to travel to Manchester on a regular basis, it was enlightening. I like Manchester, it's fairly multi cultural, there is nothing wrong with it. Nothing that is mono should be forced to become multi, then the whole place will be the same, and what a shame that would be.

[Mothersruin]

oyster said:

The Dangerous Elk said:

oyster said:

Monoculturism is not what we need, multiculturism is just fine.

And what when the drive to Multiculturism leads to Monoculterisium, what will you think then ?

Unless all the immigrants grow to love maypole dancing and overcooked meats I suspect monoculture will never happen.

Parrot in aisle one.

[anonymous-user]

daddy cool said:

What a load of bks.

If you were a journalist doing a piece for the news, you would have footage of Peckham with bright saturated colours and plenty of white smiling teeth, lovely ethnic types high-fiving each other, and then black & white, slightly slowed-down footage of Guildford highstreet in the rain, people trudging along huddled under umbrellas, maybe a tramp being sick on himself in the background, with The Smiths' "Every Day is Like Sunday" playing over the top.

Just to be Peter Pedant for a moment "Every Day is Like Sunday" is not a Smiths song.

The video is a bit like you say though, but shot in Southend not Peckham.

[del mar]

oyster said:

I couldn't even imagine the lives that some of the posters on this thread live. del mar as the OP stands out, but there are others too.
How can you live your daily life with such hatred of other human beings? How can that life be, in any way, happy and fulfilled?

My life is happier for knowing I don't get upset at sharing my space with people who don't conform to a narrow view of what it's like to be 'british' (deliberately used lower case).

I walked through Peckham town centre the other day - it was invigorating and refreshing. The sights, the smell, the noises, the chaos. Stopped to taste some foreign food - spicy as hell - hurt my tongue, but damn it was fun. People looked busy, looked happy, looked to be living their lives as busy as they can make them.

As a contrast I was in Guildford at the weekend. The streets looked like hospital corridors, sanitised and homogenous. No noise, no smells. People trudged rather than whizzed. There was no sense of adventure, it was like they were unhappy with life, yet they live in one of the richest parts of one of the richest countries in the world.

Monoculturism is not what we need, multiculturism is just fine.

I can barely get out of bed most mornings I am that filled with rage !

[del mar]

Alpinestars said:

It was irrelevant to the example Countdown gave. Integration, by definition, requires both sides to integrate, ie, the indigenous population to allow others in, and vice versa. Any estate where people of a different background are not allowed in, creates segregation.

I am on the verge of agreeing with you here !

It is indeed a two way street, both sides have to want to work together.

But that only works if the indigenous population wants the immigrants in the first place. If I was asked do I want large scale immigration and I said yes, then it is up to me to make it work. If on the other hand I don't want this, then I wont play my part and am more likely to move.

If there was vote in Germany asking the population if they wanted 1 million mainly male muslims from war zones to come to Germany and the people said yes, that is fine.

There wasn't a vote lots of people didn't want them, but they are then forced onto them in smaller towns and cities, it is unfair to expect these people to go out of their way to assist in the integration. Suddenly there is no chance of the two way street idea working.

[Hilts]

oyster said:

Monoculturism is not what we need, multiculturism is just fine.

Sure.

Tell that to KarlMac and anyone else fortunate enough to benefit from a Pakistani presence in their neighbourhood.

[Dindoit]

Hilts said:

oyster said:

Monoculturism is not what we need, multiculturism is just fine.

Sure.

Tell that to KarlMac and anyone else fortunate enough to benefit from a Pakistani presence in their neighbourhood.

State of this. A Pakistani presence?

[andymc]

Dindoit said:

Hilts said:

oyster said:

Monoculturism is not what we need, multiculturism is just fine.

Sure.

Tell that to KarlMac and anyone else fortunate enough to benefit from a Pakistani presence in their neighbourhood.

State of this. A Pakistani presence?

what do you mean by "state of this"?

[Earthdweller]

I watched the revisit of this issue with interest being a Blackburn lad born and bred

My mother was born in and grew up in a now demolished terraced house off Whalley Range .. they built a school on it since

I went to the local primary school in the area, which in the early seventies was mixed about 70/30 white/Asian

The town was poor and pretty grubby with very high unemployment but I never noticed any issues growing up ... as a teenager in the 80’s I loved the vibrant nightlife

It wasn’t a bad place to live

Fast forward to today and the place is pretty soulless

Would I say it’s more divided .. yes I would

As I grew up the Asian girls were in bright coloured sari’s or western clothes and I struggle to remember any with covered faces, head scarves yes

Now it’s a sea of black and totally covered girls/women some from as young as 4 or 5

As I say I went to a mixed school . Now the kids don’t .. My sons school is virtually all white unlike when I went to school

There are Muslim schools for boys and Muslim schools for girls .. so not just the races but also sexes are divided

My mother, now in her 80’s and widowed still lives on the northern edge of the town in an area which is becoming increasingly Asian

The small semi’s and bungalows in her area are being bought up and converted into much larger properties .. two bed bungalows being converted into 6 bed houses and the gardens abandoned or converted into hard standing

The area is becoming very shabby very rapidly .. and it’s heartbreaking for my mother who has lived in her house since it was built 40 years ago

Her Asian neighbours are lovely and very family orientated and really keep an eye on her .. particularly the older ones.. pretty much all the white residents are elderly or older folk

Every house that is sold is bought by Asians .. I couldn’t imagine any white folks buying a house where she lives

The young Asians can be quite arrogant and intimidating however

So, in my opinion is the town more divided than it was 10 years ago ... absolutely it is

Is there “white flight” ..

absolutely there is, virtually everyone I went to school with and who lived in Blackburn now lives out of the town ..,look at the development of Whalley and Clitheroe which is where they have all gone

Can it be stopped or reversed ?

I’m not sure but ending the segregated education system would be a great start

Do I see racial tensions ..., no I don’t and generally everyone seems to get along and the town centre is used by all

But crucially the lifestyles are radically different and those white folks who can afford to are leaving or already have left in droves to one of the many satellite areas that are thriving

What is the future for Blackburn .. I think it will become over time increasingly Asian ethnically and in look and feel

For far too long local and national government had turned a blind eye to the massive changes and issues in places like Blackburn

[jimPH]

Birds of a feather, We're all the same.

I live in a village, it's largely populated by white people.

My wife is black, in fact she's 1st generation Nigerian. Her preference is to move to the city where more black people live.

I've been explaining to her that our children will not befit from the inner city living and opportunities this may present them.

We may well move, but we have yet to compromise.