White Flight and failing Integration

[andymc]

Close to home?

[Alpinestars]

andymc said:

Alpinestars said:

The Dangerous Elk said:

Alpinestars said:

It makes neither right...... And shows dinosaurs like you, that treating women badly is not the preserve of any demographic. But I know, "s".

The proplem here is you, you refuse to accept any conversation on any topic that you find difficult if that topic is one perpetuated by the specific group being discussed. You are one of the reasons for the problem getting worse for them, the women in those self-segregated communities and for those communities being destroyed by the growth of said self-segregated communities.

You just cannot see that closing down discussion with crys of racist is damaging can you ?

Edited by The Dangerous Elk on Wednesday 24th January 23:09

Gee you're dumb. You've just admitted I haven't (inappropriately) used that word, and now you've gone full circle. No doubt followed by "who me"? Wash, rinse, repeat.

Are you going to answer my question to you?

You’re still not answering why it’s Pakistani grooming gangs? Where’s the Chinese the Jews the Sikhs?

Where were the Pakistanis in Hollywood, the Church, parliament, the PC club etc etc. you're a one trick pony who obviously hates Pakistanis, which is your prerogative. But let's not pretend that they are the only ones who commit (heinous) crimes That would be, er well, you know, that word.

[Alpinestars]

The Dangerous Elk said:

Why do you find discussing details of specific problems exhibited (mainly) by a specific community so difficult ?

I note 3 personal insults so far, zero from me please note

Are you going to answer the question or not?

[anonymous-user]

loafer123 said:

This website is very interesting, showing maps of ethnicity and economic indicators;

http://datashine.org.uk/#table=QS201EW&col=QS2...

That's a really useful site - thanks.

[The Dangerous Elk]

Alpinestars said:

Are you going to answer the question or not?

is there an outstanding question ?

I know THIS is outstanding and awaiting an answer:

What would the reasons be for the communities in question to self-segregate to such a level and to such an extent as to be seen as stepping back from the diverse cultural norms of western societies?

but you will avoid it again I think, maybe throw another personal insult?

[anonymous-user]

The Dangerous Elk said:

is there an outstanding question ?

I know THIS is outstanding and awaiting an answer:

What would the reasons be for the communities in question to self-segregate to such a level and to such an extent as to be seen as stepping back from the diverse cultural norms of western societies?

but you will avoid it again I think, maybe throw another personal insult?

The major driver appears to be economic.

I would think family, religion and culture are a major part of the decision making process as well.

[andymc]

The Dangerous Elk said:

Alpinestars said:

Are you going to answer the question or not?

is there an outstanding question ?

I know THIS is outstanding and awaiting an answer:

What would the reasons be for the communities in question to self-segregate to such a level and to such an extent as to be seen as stepping back from the diverse cultural norms of western societies?

but you will avoid it again I think, maybe throw another personal insult?

You’re wasting your time, next he will be defending marrying your cousin as it stops wealth leaving the family
Birth defects are an acceptable risk for that untouched ISA

[Alpinestars]

The Dangerous Elk said:

Alpinestars said:

Are you going to answer the question or not?

is there an outstanding question ?

I know THIS is outstanding and awaiting an answer:

What would the reasons be for the communities in question to self-segregate to such a level and to such an extent as to be seen as stepping back from the diverse cultural norms of western societies?

but you will avoid it again I think, maybe throw another personal insult?

I've already answered that. I don't know. I can guess at it being for the following reasons;

- when they first came over, they didn't have the means but to live in the less affluent parts of town. They were economic migrants. That creates some critical mass in those areas.
- as time passes, that critical mass becomes a community, with resources and facilities to serve the community eg, food outlets, religious places of worship.
- this attracts more of that community, and it becomes a comfortable life.
- at the same time, the indigenous community starts to feel out of place, and not in synch with the new community, which is understandable. So moves out (white flight).

At this stage, neither community has solved the integration problem.

Other white communities see what's happened to the now Asian areas, and they don't want that to happen to theirs. So anyone in the Asian community who wants to move out and live with those indigenous communities is discouraged from doing so by these white communities (and vice versa). This creates resentment between the two communities and makes it difficult to integrate.

Over time, because there is no integration, and probably because of hostilities on both sides, a state of no return is created.

It's not the fault of one community alone. And I empathise with the genuine concerns of both communities.

Does that answer your question?

Edited by Alpinestars on Thursday 25th January 00:21

[The Dangerous Elk]

andymc said:

You’re wasting your time, next he will be defending marrying your cousin as it stops wealth leaving the family
Birth defects are an acceptable risk for that untouched ISA

Personally I am not interested in such "details", my concerns are for the direction that these communities are heading, the effects on the children and women in them and the impact on the society we have all be fighting to develop over the years. A society that is thankfully increasingly fair, diverse and lawful to all, one that offers equal education, opportunity and respect to all members.
As I see it certain self segragating groups are regressing in most of those aims and I wonder why and how this can be challenged if it can ever be reveresed and if the negative impacts of these ever increasing areas of "monoculture" on the existing communities can be minimised.

It saddens me that people like this Alpine chap is so resistant to such discussion.

[anonymous-user]

The Dangerous Elk said:

Personally I am not interested in such "details", my concerns are for the direction that these communities are heading, the effects on the children and women in them and the impact on the society we have all be fighting to develop over the years. A society that is thankfully increasingly fair, diverse and lawful to all, one that offers equal education, opportunity and respect to all members.
As I see it certain self segragating groups are regressing in most of those aims and I wonder why and how this can be challenged if it can ever be reveresed and if the negative impacts of these ever increasing areas of "monoculture" on the existing communities can be minimised.

It saddens me that people like this Alpine chap is so resistant to such discussion.

These figures are a bit out of date but at this time of night it's the best i can do

More specifically, the proportion of people who live in low-income households is:

20% for White people.
30% for Indians and Black Caribbeans.
50% for Black Africans.
60% for Pakistanis.
70% for Bangladeshis.


Relatively speaking many more "Asian" people are poor compared to white people. Poverty drives certain types of criminality.

[Boosted LS1]

These threads go on and on and on and on but are never about other communities, just Pakistani muslims.. It has been this way for years, perhaps there is a problem?

There are no threads about other beliefs.

[anonymous-user]

Boosted LS1 said:

These threads go on and on and on and on but are never about other communities, just Pakistani muslims.. It has been this way for years, perhaps there is a problem?

There are no threads about other beliefs.

To be fair there are loads of threads complaining about how scummy poor people are. It's quite a popular theme on PH.

There is even one about posh people and their sexual misdemeanours running at the moment.

Edited by anonymous-user on Thursday 25th January 08:48

[amusingduck]

Countdown said:

The Dangerous Elk said:

Countdown said:

The “diverse cultural norms” that you see on predominantly-white Council estates?

There are some very nice predominantly-white Council estates, bit racist bruv

If they are predominately white how are they culturally diverse?

Are you implying that all white people have the same culture?

[The Dangerous Elk]

amusingduck said:

Countdown said:

The Dangerous Elk said:

Countdown said:

The “diverse cultural norms” that you see on predominantly-white Council estates?

There are some very nice predominantly-white Council estates, bit racist bruv

If they are predominately white how are they culturally diverse?

Are you implying that all white people have the same culture?

Bruv, whites is all the same inint

[Countdown]

The Dangerous Elk said:

amusingduck said:

Countdown said:

The Dangerous Elk said:

Countdown said:

The “diverse cultural norms” that you see on predominantly-white Council estates?

There are some very nice predominantly-white Council estates, bit racist bruv

If they are predominately white how are they culturally diverse?

Are you implying that all white people have the same culture?

Bruv, whites is all the same inint

Nicely avoided....

[The Dangerous Elk]

Countdown said:

Nicely avoided....

Avoided what ?

[Boosted LS1]

desolate said:

Boosted LS1 said:

These threads go on and on and on and on but are never about other communities, just Pakistani muslims.. It has been this way for years, perhaps there is a problem?

There are no threads about other beliefs.

To be fair there are loads of threads complaining about how scummy poor people are. It's quite a popular theme on PH.

There is even one about posh people and their sexual misdemeanours running at the moment.

Edited by desolate on Thursday 25th January 08:48

Posh people know how to have fun ;-) I'll have to go and look for that one.

[Countdown]

The Dangerous Elk said:

Countdown said:

Nicely avoided....

Avoided what ?

What are the “diverse cultural norms” you see on predominantly white council estates?

[J4CKO]

desolate said:

The Dangerous Elk said:

Personally I am not interested in such "details", my concerns are for the direction that these communities are heading, the effects on the children and women in them and the impact on the society we have all be fighting to develop over the years. A society that is thankfully increasingly fair, diverse and lawful to all, one that offers equal education, opportunity and respect to all members.
As I see it certain self segragating groups are regressing in most of those aims and I wonder why and how this can be challenged if it can ever be reveresed and if the negative impacts of these ever increasing areas of "monoculture" on the existing communities can be minimised.

It saddens me that people like this Alpine chap is so resistant to such discussion.

These figures are a bit out of date but at this time of night it's the best i can do

More specifically, the proportion of people who live in low-income households is:

20% for White people.
30% for Indians and Black Caribbeans.
50% for Black Africans.
60% for Pakistanis.
70% for Bangladeshis.


Relatively speaking many more "Asian" people are poor compared to white people. Poverty drives certain types of criminality.

Indeed, it has always been the case that folk with no money tend to be the ones involved in crime, that is human nature not any specific quirk of one group, I know folk who post every news story about Pakistani men (always men by and large) committing any kind of crime, the implication is "See, I told you, they are a bad lot", never posts anything about white Brits committing crime.

I have Pakistani Muslim friends, spoke to two of them yesterday, one of them specifically was saying "This might sound racist" and then went on to slag off Pakistani men, then he said "How can that be racist if I am one", there are plenty of decent law abiding Pakistani men, the two guys I mentioned, one used to be my trainee at a previous job and in ten years has gone from a raw recruit to one of the most qualified guys in his field and is doing very nicely, the other is a hardworking IT guy at my current job.

I then get the person who post on FB saying how awful "P*kis" are, then I mention my dads neighbour, the most lovely and smily, pleasant Pakistani lady, charming and happy to integrate, he says "Well, she is alright", the implication being the other 6 million arent, Well what are the odds of that, you, a big old racist has met the one nice one, uncanny, or are the vast majority just average punters getting on with life ?

We only hear about the crash for cash, grooming, terrorism, radicalisation and other criminality as "Mr Khan opened his shop this morning and sold £1235 of goods, made a modest profit and had a mostly pleasant day serving the community" as it doesnt incite hate a la Daily Mail, and yes a bit stereotypical, so have "Ms Anwar the Radiologist dealt with 9 patients today, had a prawn sandwich for lunch, bit of a dull day but its the weekend now"

There are huge problems in the Pakistani/Muslim community, stuff like marrying cousins and the subsequent birth defects, we need to get past casual racism and tackle issues head on and not pussyfoot around because of race, if someone steps out of line then they get pulled up for it, as it is, a lot is either officials staring at their shoes not knowing how to deal with it whilst avoiding career suicide by saying the wrong thing and on the other side the "I fking hate P*kis" type, well thats that all done and dusted then, 200 million or so people you hate, really ? perhaps saying "Some of those folk do some stuff I dont like and I dont understand some of their way of life but would probably get on personally quite well if I met them" ?

[The Dangerous Elk]

As I said, the problem for me is the conversation always seems to get diverted towards "crime". This is not the issue for me, there are known causes for this.
The discussion should revolve around the reasons for those particular communities not being able to break out from the poverty and isolation they find themselves in.
Without addressing and discussing the cultural problems and the base causes of such failure we will get zero results with the reactions of "always s" and "your just racist" as we see in this thread from some posters.

The more self-isolation the more they will be isolated by the "rest" of the population that surrounds them..
The more regressive social "habits" practised that prevent them from "developing and benefiting" from cultural freedoms the rest of the UK gains from, the more they will be isolated.
The value of education and language.
The "clan" culture and politically correct ignorance & failing to challenge it.
Religious leaders and the direction/norms/teachings preached without challenge.
Racism from within those communities being ignored.
Oppression of Women/Girls from within those communities being ignored. Segregation of Women and Girls across wide areas generates poor social integration.
The lack of trust shown in the "Law of the Land" and the attitude from the community leaders (and preachers)
Immigration (national) and local integration policies.

Not all of the above can be called unique to these communities but many have unique reasons for their existence when compared to "other" communities with a high % of ethnic or social diversity. Many also are very extreme such as the social mix in concentrated areas.

Edited by The Dangerous Elk on Thursday 25th January 10:59