Could UK U-turn on Referendum Result (Vol 2)

[PurpleMoonlight]

Murph7355 said:

There aren't. Which is why countries need plenty to offer to that demographic.

The UK has typically done pretty well on that front, despite the weather.

The need to fill in a form does not prevent or even deter unduly people moving to a country. That it does is an unnecessary false construct built up by the EU.

No more fruit pickers and prostitutes then.

[loafer123]

B'stard Child said:

Gloria Slap said:

PRTVR said:

Anybody see Verhofstadt on Andrew Marr on Sunday,
The clip is 12 minutes long.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p05ykmkv

Interestingly at the end he indicated that if there was no deal, he thought that there would possibly be a change of government in the UK and a reversal of Brexit.
Maybe that's the direction the EU is heading, a bad deal in the hope of a reversal.

I think that is a distinct possibility.

Whether the deal is bad or not for this reason is another matter - the deal will be what it is anyway. It will be the best the brexiteers can do by definition.

The trigger could be the HoP rejecting May/Davis deal - with brexiteers sacked on mass. New Govt, massive power struggles. Hopefully won't mean Corbyn.

Edited by Gloria Slap on Monday 19th February 07:48

Or it could just be we leave with no deal - The EU need to be very careful if they position themselves into a corner...... Verhofstadt is not helping at all

I do think that the EU fundamentally misunderstands the British culture which is much more sceptical of central control than most in Europe.

It would be very easy to portray this sort of pressure by the EU as anti-democratic and a repeat of their overturning of previous referenda in Ireland and elsewhere and it is fair to say that we don't react well to this sort of manipulation.

I do think that many country level leaders like Merkel understand, however.

[PRTVR]

loafer123 said:

B'stard Child said:

Gloria Slap said:

PRTVR said:

Anybody see Verhofstadt on Andrew Marr on Sunday,
The clip is 12 minutes long.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p05ykmkv

Interestingly at the end he indicated that if there was no deal, he thought that there would possibly be a change of government in the UK and a reversal of Brexit.
Maybe that's the direction the EU is heading, a bad deal in the hope of a reversal.

I think that is a distinct possibility.

Whether the deal is bad or not for this reason is another matter - the deal will be what it is anyway. It will be the best the brexiteers can do by definition.

The trigger could be the HoP rejecting May/Davis deal - with brexiteers sacked on mass. New Govt, massive power struggles. Hopefully won't mean Corbyn.

Edited by Gloria Slap on Monday 19th February 07:48

Or it could just be we leave with no deal - The EU need to be very careful if they position themselves into a corner...... Verhofstadt is not helping at all

I do think that the EU fundamentally misunderstands the British culture which is much more sceptical of central control than most in Europe.

It would be very easy to portray this sort of pressure by the EU as anti-democratic and a repeat of their overturning of previous referenda in Ireland and elsewhere and it is fair to say that we don't react well to this sort of manipulation.

I do think that many country level leaders like Merkel understand, however.

I think the stream of remainers who have made their way to hold court in Brussels ,have perhaps given the wrong impression, along with organisation like the BBC,
perhaps it's lead to a belief that there is regret over the decision, I was chatting to a Dutch couple who believed this, they appeared quite confused when I explained there might be some with that view, but there is also regret for some over not voting to leave, when the world didn't stop turning after the vote.

[andymadmak]

PRTVR said:

I think the stream of remainers who have made their way to hold court in Brussels ,have perhaps given the wrong impression, along with organisation like the BBC,
perhaps it's lead to a belief that there is regret over the decision, I was chatting to a Dutch couple who believed this, they appeared quite confused when I explained there might be some with that view, but there is also regret for some over not voting to leave, when the world didn't stop turning after the vote.

This. It is one of the consequences of the highly vocal and largely mendacious campaign being waged by some Remainers. This has made it harder for the UK to negotiate the best deal. As a result of Remainer actions it is likely that any deal will not be as good as could have been achieved if the country had been perceived to be moving forward to Brexit in a united way.
But it is the price we (rightly ) pay for democracy. I do not agree with the more hysterical tactics of some of those on the Remain side, and even though it is clearly damaging the UK during these negotiations with the EU, I would defend the rights of Remainers to dissent from Brexit (whilst wishing they would be a bit more discreet about it! )

[wc98]

Murph7355 said:

Verhofstadt is a cretin. Same mould as Juncker. Tusk isn't far off either. My sincere hope is that they keep on being wheeled out in the next 6mths. The more the better. Every time people like him open their mouths, it makes me realise how right we are to be leaving their club. They have no grasp of reality whatsoever. It's all about the political project and nothing else matters. The people in the member states, and what they want, do not matter to them one bit. They are the reason we are leaving, and they will never, ever see it.

nail on head. one of the very few good things about the shift in many politicians outlook from fairly private dignified statesmen/women to seeing themselves as celebrities and lining up photo shoots ,endless interviews and any other opportunity to get their mugs in the msm is they expose their true character for all to see.

it would appear many people don't like what they see and are letting them know this.

[Murph7355]

PurpleMoonlight said:

No more fruit pickers and prostitutes then.

Depends if your definition of "best" precludes such people

If we need them, they should be welcomed. Again, FOM not required.

[PurpleMoonlight]

Murph7355 said:

Depends if your definition of "best" precludes such people

If we need them, they should be welcomed. Again, FOM not required.

I wonder how one would assess who are the best fruit pickers and prostitutes.

[gooner1]

PurpleMoonlight said:

I wonder how one would assess who are the best fruit pickers and prostitutes.

Easy, stick all of them on a street corner for a day, then in
an orchard the following day. I guarantee they'll find their
own niche market.

[Camoradi]

PurpleMoonlight said:

I wonder how one would assess who are the best fruit pickers and prostitutes.

See if they can handle plums without bruising them.

I've no idea about the fruit pickers though.

[Mrr T]

JagLover said:

Murph7355 said:

The line will go something like "by withdrawing from and arrangement that gives automatic rights to live and work in the EU".

However Logically this only materially impacts those with little/nothing to offer the host state. So I struggle to see the issue both ways.

I can see why it appeals to people like Verhofstadt though.

Yep

If Spain for example is happy for British pensioners to keep retiring there due to the money they bring then it will continue. If they aren't happy then it will stop. The decision will rest with them, as it should.

Spain will not welcome them if the S1 system ends, and I have seen nothing to indicate it will continue even for existing residents never mind new emigrants.

[Funkycoldribena]

Murph7355 said:

Verhofstadt is a cretin. Same mould as Juncker. Tusk isn't far off either. My sincere hope is that they keep on being wheeled out in the next 6mths. The more the better. Every time people like him open their mouths, it makes me realise how right we are to be leaving their club. They have no grasp of reality whatsoever. It's all about the political project and nothing else matters. The people in the member states, and what they want, do not matter to them one bit. They are the reason we are leaving, and they will never, ever see it.

Agree.
You even got them in the right order,cant even look at Verhofstadt.

[andymadmak]

Mrr T said:

Spain will not welcome them if the S1 system ends, and I have seen nothing to indicate it will continue even for existing residents never mind new emigrants.

Have you seen anything to suggest it will end?

[andymadmak]

andymadmak said:

Have you seen anything to suggest it will end?

Edited to add:

From here: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/safegua...

Government website said:

Example case study: UK nationals currently residing in another EU Member State with UK-insured healthcare
Sarah is a UK national who retired to Spain in 2005. She is drawing a UK state pension and has a UK S1 form registered in Spain. The S1 form is a standard EU certificate which demonstrates an individual’s entitlement to healthcare in their country of residence. Individuals are required to register the S1 document in their new EU Member State of residence. This means that the UK reimburses Spain the cost of providing medical treatment to her.

Sarah has a UK issued EHIC, which she can use if needed during temporary visits to another EU country (not the UK).

After the UK leaves the EU, we want to secure Sarah’s current healthcare entitlements so that they will continue on the same basis.

So the intention is clear. Assuming the Spanish don't want to change the status quo either then getting agreement on this should not be too onerous?

[Sway]

Especially considering the current 'balance of trade' under S1...

[Mrr T]

andymadmak said:

andymadmak said:

Have you seen anything to suggest it will end?

Edited to add:

From here: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/safegua...

Government website said:

Example case study: UK nationals currently residing in another EU Member State with UK-insured healthcare
Sarah is a UK national who retired to Spain in 2005. She is drawing a UK state pension and has a UK S1 form registered in Spain. The S1 form is a standard EU certificate which demonstrates an individual’s entitlement to healthcare in their country of residence. Individuals are required to register the S1 document in their new EU Member State of residence. This means that the UK reimburses Spain the cost of providing medical treatment to her.

Sarah has a UK issued EHIC, which she can use if needed during temporary visits to another EU country (not the UK).

After the UK leaves the EU, we want to secure Sarah’s current healthcare entitlements so that they will continue on the same basis.

So the intention is clear. Assuming the Spanish don't want to change the status quo either then getting agreement on this should not be too onerous?

Thanks I had not seen that.

[Murph7355]

Mrr T said:

Thanks I had not seen that.

Don't let it stop you panicking though %)

[Murph7355]

PS I'd be telling Sarah to spend her pension here or to pay for her own insurance if she wants to retire abroad.

[B'stard Child]

Camoradi said:

PurpleMoonlight said:

I wonder how one would assess who are the best fruit pickers and prostitutes.

See if they can handle plums without bruising them.

I've no idea about the fruit pickers though.

Better than the previous suggestion although that had merit

[NJH]

Transition on the terms being offered by the EU is a very obvious trap to do a last minute deal that sees continuation of membership for a couple more years. The reasoning is simple, have to stay in to have any say on new legislation coming along during that period, as in no material gain by throwing away all control for nothing in return. Then it gives the EU (and remainers) time to find a way to overturn Brexit. Stunned that this isn't being picked up and that so many leavers seem content to walk into this trap.

[The Dangerous Elk]

NJH said:

Transition on the terms being offered by the EU is a very obvious trap to do a last minute deal that sees continuation of membership for a couple more years. The reasoning is simple, have to stay in to have any say on new legislation coming along during that period, as in no material gain by throwing away all control for nothing in return. Then it gives the EU (and remainers) time to find a way to overturn Brexit. Stunned that this isn't being picked up and that so many leavers seem content to walk into this trap.

What would you have us do to avoid it ? (other than the Conservative Party knowing they will lose the next election if it is overturned)

Not that I expect it to happen and given that a "transition period" (we will have left the EU by then) makes good sense on practical/business terms.