Incident Croydon tram

[Stedman]

MarshPhantom said:

OK, what if it turns out it is all the driver's fault? What punishment should he receive?

To me at least, the fact he's claimed to have passed out means he knows he fked up big time.

Fuuuuuck sake. All i'm saying it lets wait and see what the PROFESSIONAL report says and the subsequent court case decides.

I'm glad i'm not the only one who thinks you're being a bellend within this thread.

[MarshPhantom]

Stedman said:

MarshPhantom said:

OK, what if it turns out it is all the driver's fault? What punishment should he receive?

To me at least, the fact he's claimed to have passed out means he knows he fked up big time.

Fuuuuuck sake. All i'm saying it lets wait and see what the PROFESSIONAL report says and the subsequent court case decides.

I'm glad i'm not the only one who thinks you're being a bellend within this thread.

Why exactly is this thread so full of dheads?

[MarshPhantom]

I'm going to leave you sad losers to it. My head may explode.

7 people dead, plenty more badly injured and all you can do is have a go at me.

Pathetic.

[Stedman]

MarshPhantom said:

Why exactly is this thread so full of dheads?

Not now you've left xx

[Magog]

s3fella said:

I heard a VERY worrying theory that seems as though it may have some genuine momentum now. A suggestion that it was a deliberate act for a quite unbelievable reason. Hence the incident the previous week. I hope it is nonsense, but nothing would surprise me as this incident just seems unbelievable.

What is this theory?

[don'tbesilly]

Magog said:

s3fella said:

I heard a VERY worrying theory that seems as though it may have some genuine momentum now. A suggestion that it was a deliberate act for a quite unbelievable reason. Hence the incident the previous week. I hope it is nonsense, but nothing would surprise me as this incident just seems unbelievable.

What is this theory?

The theory I heard was one of malicious intent on the part of the driver, so make of that what you will.

To make it clear, the theory didn't come from me, it was/is a theory circulating, and one I heard from a friend who lives in Croydon.

Unbelievable admittedly, but it's out there, the theory I mean.

[phil1979]

don'tbesilly said:

Magog said:

s3fella said:

I heard a VERY worrying theory that seems as though it may have some genuine momentum now. A suggestion that it was a deliberate act for a quite unbelievable reason. Hence the incident the previous week. I hope it is nonsense, but nothing would surprise me as this incident just seems unbelievable.

What is this theory?

The theory I heard was one of malicious intent on the part of the driver, so make of that what you will.

To make it clear, the theory didn't come from me, it was/is a theory circulating, and one I heard from a friend who lives in Croydon.

Unbelievable admittedly, but it's out there, the theory I mean.

Crikey, this is more secretive than the Freemasonry thread. Brother.

[poo at Paul's]

phil1979 said:

don'tbesilly said:

Magog said:

s3fella said:

I heard a VERY worrying theory that seems as though it may have some genuine momentum now. A suggestion that it was a deliberate act for a quite unbelievable reason. Hence the incident the previous week. I hope it is nonsense, but nothing would surprise me as this incident just seems unbelievable.

What is this theory?

The theory I heard was one of malicious intent on the part of the driver, so make of that what you will.

To make it clear, the theory didn't come from me, it was/is a theory circulating, and one I heard from a friend who lives in Croydon.

Unbelievable admittedly, but it's out there, the theory I mean.

Crikey, this is more secretive than the Freemasonry thread. Brother.

Is this the theory to do with compo claims....?

[Robertj21a]

Croydon trams have now restarted.

[theboss]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/11/19/probe-l...

A concerned passenger took a 32 second video clip of the driver apparently struggling to stay upright - obviously not that concerned or they may have attempted to raise an alarm rather than standing there gawking with the iPhone rolling.

Do these trams have emergency alarms accessible to passengers as trains do?

[saaby93]

Although nodding off may be an issue with any driver, and without yet seeing the reports, if this was a plane crash it would likely come down to driver/pilot error but there'd be a serious review into what could change to prevent the same thing happen again
Thered also be a review to find out why the obvious hadnt already been picked up

So far we know theres a tunnel with a 50mph limit which drivers are likely expected to try to meet for timetable reasons
followed by by what looks like a solitary 20 diamond sign hidden amongst the infra-structure
then a sharp almost right angle bend

Is it any surprise this looks like a model train set??

[hornetrider]

theboss said:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/11/19/probe-l...

A concerned passenger took a 32 second video clip of the driver apparently struggling to stay upright - obviously not that concerned or they may have attempted to raise an alarm rather than standing there gawking with the iPhone rolling.

Do these trams have emergency alarms accessible to passengers as trains do?

Just to point out the article referred to 'a' driver at a different time, not 'the' driver in this incident.

[MX51ROD]

Seeing the video , and also struggled to keep fully alert when driving long distances ( at least I have the luxury of pulling off for a power nap ) I often wonder how train drivers , in particular , long distance ones , manage to keep alert and concentrate , the droning and rhythmic clatter from rails must be sleep inducing,I certainly find it soporific even on a short journey into London , and if alone how do they cope ? I know there is APT . but does that bring the train to a halt even if the driver comes too after dropping off ?

Edited by MX51ROD on Saturday 19th November 10:38

[P5BNij]

MX51ROD said:

Seeing the video , and also struggled to keep fully alert when driving long distances ( at least I have the luxury of pulling off for a power nap ) I often wonder how train drivers , in particular , long distance ones , manage to keep alert and concentrate , the droning and rhythmic clatter from rails must be sleep inducing, and if alone how do they cope ? I know there is APT . but does that bring the train to a halt even if the driver comes too after dropping off ?

Between shifts we have to manage our eating and sleeping patterns as best we can, which all goes towards better concentration. On the freight side we often sit around for several hours then have to do three or four hours driving which takes some getting used to. That's down to the nature of the job, having to wait around while your train is being loaded or unloaded. To aid concentration we're now told to use 'risk based commentary' which pretty much boils down to talking out loud describing the route as you're driving along. I've tried it a few times and it does work. The job I'm on later today involves driving a van forty miles to pick up my train, four hours or so driving the train to the engineering site fifty miles away (it's the 3,000 ton High Output Ballast Cleaner), three or four more hours moving the train within the work site including my personal needs break, get relieved by another driver then driving another van forty miles back to my home depot.

[fido]

MX51ROD said:

Seeing the video , and also struggled to keep fully alert when driving long distances ( at least I have the luxury of pulling off for a power nap ) I often wonder how train drivers , in particular , long distance ones , manage to keep alert and concentrate , the droning and rhythmic clatter from rails must be sleep inducing, and if alone how do they cope ? I know there is APT . but does that bring the train to a halt even if the driver comes too after dropping off ?

A driver rang up LBC this morning to say that the tram comes to a halt if a lever isn't pressed for more than 3 seconds. He seemed adamant that the amount of pressure required would make it impossible for a sleeping driver to keep the lever in position. Whether that is true or not ..

[legzr1]

MX51ROD said:

Seeing the video , and also struggled to keep fully alert when driving long distances ( at least I have the luxury of pulling off for a power nap ) I often wonder how train drivers , in particular , long distance ones , manage to keep alert and concentrate , the droning and rhythmic clatter from rails must be sleep inducing, and if alone how do they cope ? I know there is APT . but does that bring the train to a halt even if the driver comes too after dropping off ?

If you're genuinely interested I can get links to fatigue studies within the industry - there are decades worth of studies and reports starting with circadian rhythms to sensible eating habits.

The latest suggestion, believe it or not, is to sing loudly to yourself and make your seating position uncomfortable causing fidgeting (this, like a lot of suggestions, comes from the airline industry - the idea of opening a window to cause an annoying draft does not...).

Most U.K. Lines are fitted with AWS and TPWS - protection systems designed to stop a train if the warning is not cancelled.
DSD and vigilance are in-cab systems designed to keep drivers alert.
I have a funny little anecdote involving a driver recording the beeps of the vigilance system in operation and playing it back to a messroom full of dozing drivers - perhaps this isn't the thread for it though


Here's hoping MarshPhantom re-reads his posts in this thread and realises how he's coming across.

[MX51ROD]

legzr1 said:

- the idea of opening a window to cause an annoying draft does not...).

That . I have noticed , a freezing cold day and a train driver with the cab window open ,explains a lot ,
I have done it when driving my van , a warm fuggy cab is just what you need to curl up and have a good nap

[dxg]

fido said:

MX51ROD said:

Seeing the video , and also struggled to keep fully alert when driving long distances ( at least I have the luxury of pulling off for a power nap ) I often wonder how train drivers , in particular , long distance ones , manage to keep alert and concentrate , the droning and rhythmic clatter from rails must be sleep inducing, and if alone how do they cope ? I know there is APT . but does that bring the train to a halt even if the driver comes too after dropping off ?

A driver rang up LBC this morning to say that the tram comes to a halt if a lever isn't pressed for more than 3 seconds. He seemed adamant that the amount of pressure required would make it impossible for a sleeping driver to keep the lever in position. Whether that is true or not ..

As L7 said, bricks are heavy.

[legzr1]

P5BNij said:

Between shifts we have to manage our eating and sleeping patterns as best we can, which all goes towards better concentration. On the freight side we often sit around for several hours then have to do three or four hours driving which takes some getting used to. That's down to the nature of the job, having to wait around while your train is being loaded or unloaded. To aid concentration we're now told to use 'risk based commentary' which pretty much boils down to talking out loud describing the route as you're driving along. I've tried it a few times and it does work. The job I'm on later today involves driving a van forty miles to pick up my train, four hours or so driving the train to the engineering site fifty miles away (it's the 3,000 ton High Output Ballast Cleaner), three or four more hours moving the train within the work site including my personal needs break, get relieved by another driver then driving another van forty miles back to my home depot.

FLHH?

[P5BNij]

legzr1 said:

P5BNij said:

Between shifts we have to manage our eating and sleeping patterns as best we can, which all goes towards better concentration. On the freight side we often sit around for several hours then have to do three or four hours driving which takes some getting used to. That's down to the nature of the job, having to wait around while your train is being loaded or unloaded. To aid concentration we're now told to use 'risk based commentary' which pretty much boils down to talking out loud describing the route as you're driving along. I've tried it a few times and it does work. The job I'm on later today involves driving a van forty miles to pick up my train, four hours or so driving the train to the engineering site fifty miles away (it's the 3,000 ton High Output Ballast Cleaner), three or four more hours moving the train within the work site including my personal needs break, get relieved by another driver then driving another van forty miles back to my home depot.

FLHH?

Yes.