Discussion
Talksteer said:
I never said that, in total number of military personnel and spending the combined militarys of the EU would add up to a very large and capable military. It would have greater capability than any other world military apart from the US and maybe China.
Unless it's objective was to fight the US or China or engage in a nuclear conflict with Russia it would be adequate.
This quote has aged well:
NickClegg said:
"This is a dangerous fantasy, the idea that there's going to be a European airforce, a European army is simply not true.. the problem with people like Nigel Farage is they swing at windmills they see conspiracies everywhere. I wouldn't be surprised if Nigel Farage soon tells us that the moon landing was a fake, that Barack Obama isn't American, that Elvis isn't dead. You know it's not going to happen, stop, stop, he claimed last week, he claimed last week..[Clegg goes on to another false claim on another topic] it's a dangerous fantasy it's a con, it's just not true."
Armed camps. Two or three monolithic armed camps in the European region. The problem is that the series of checks and balances kept in place with each country having its own army and horse trading with each other over issues would disappear.
This has always led to war in the past.
I'm pro-European mostly but the idea of a huge, united EU army is a very bad one.
This has always led to war in the past.
I'm pro-European mostly but the idea of a huge, united EU army is a very bad one.
Tryke3 said:
What is the problem with a european army ?
When you lose your military you lose the ability to make your own decisions, because someone with a military can decided your future for you.I served 10 years in the military, but I would not join a European force. Happy to work along side them as part of NATO, but our principal role was to defend our own country.
98elise said:
Tryke3 said:
What is the problem with a european army ?
When you lose your military you lose the ability to make your own decisions, because someone with a military can decided your future for you.I served 10 years in the military, but I would not join a European force. Happy to work along side them as part of NATO, but our principal role was to defend our own country.
Tryke3 said:
What is the problem with a european army ?
What will the NATO countries do, provide to both or will the EU army be a standing NATO force as well?The 2% issue will remain, will NATO have 2% of each NATO member as spending or 2% of the EU budget, then again how will the EU army be funded, by EU or is it a standing force from EU member state?
Who has control? What are procurement rules, When do the Naval and Air forces become EU arms?
Is it an Army or a defence force or border patrol? Who will control ROE and how is it mobilized?
Phud said:
What will the NATO countries do, provide to both or will the EU army be a standing NATO force as well?
The 2% issue will remain, will NATO have 2% of each NATO member as spending or 2% of the EU budget, then again how will the EU army be funded, by EU or is it a standing force from EU member state?
Who has control? What are procurement rules, When do the Naval and Air forces become EU arms?
Is it an Army or a defence force or border patrol? Who will control ROE and how is it mobilized?
Yes, just imagine how terrible it would be if they manufacture 'evidence' or 'sex-up' dossier to get us into illegal wars on false pretences. The 2% issue will remain, will NATO have 2% of each NATO member as spending or 2% of the EU budget, then again how will the EU army be funded, by EU or is it a standing force from EU member state?
Who has control? What are procurement rules, When do the Naval and Air forces become EU arms?
Is it an Army or a defence force or border patrol? Who will control ROE and how is it mobilized?
jjlynn27 said:
Yes, just imagine how terrible it would be if they manufacture 'evidence' or 'sex-up' dossier to get us into illegal wars on false pretences.
That was not NATO, as you know, also not the forces, it was a political desire by labour....Suggest you look up reasons this country has gone to war.
So many idiotic assumptions! 
Firstly, an EU Army is indeed a fantasy unless ALL Members States agreed to one.
Secondly, if the 'Rules' are requested to be changed to allow for a Majority vote on such as issue to win the day, such a move must first be approved by ALL Member States.
Thirdly, had the UK wanted to remain in the EU, it could veto both ideas. So the idea of an EU Army was not a risk for the UK unless the UK AGREED to it and indeed, wanted it. So the issue for those who do not want to see an EU Army would NOT be with the EU, but with the UK Government if it does something they do not like. You have a Democratic Vote for your Government, it is Democratically elected and it represents you in the EU. Its votes inside the EU are therefore representative of the Majority who gave that Government the power to vote on their behalf. So stop this silly notion that the EU is to blame for anything you do not like! Rubbish!
Fourthly, the scaremongering about what an EU Army could be, do or be funded by, by individuals without any facts is pure mindless Pub Talk drivel.
Personally, I do not see an issue with an EU Army in what will hopefully become a more Federalised EU if it can be demonstrably positive for security and economy. I am all for Unity! The World is my home, not some tiny island wanting to be separate.
Nations behaving completely separately is negative in my view, small-minded and harks back to a more insular less educated time. It started out as Cavemen in little groups, became Villages, then Towns, Cities and Country's. Next natural step has to be more Global harmonisation. Yes to no centrally-controlled Military, yes to checks and balances so no one Group can control another but equally yes to more working and living together and removing antiquated borders.
Anti-EU comments about how it is run and controlled as if it is a Dictatorship are pure ignorant garbage! Educate yourselves.
Firstly, an EU Army is indeed a fantasy unless ALL Members States agreed to one.
Secondly, if the 'Rules' are requested to be changed to allow for a Majority vote on such as issue to win the day, such a move must first be approved by ALL Member States.
Thirdly, had the UK wanted to remain in the EU, it could veto both ideas. So the idea of an EU Army was not a risk for the UK unless the UK AGREED to it and indeed, wanted it. So the issue for those who do not want to see an EU Army would NOT be with the EU, but with the UK Government if it does something they do not like. You have a Democratic Vote for your Government, it is Democratically elected and it represents you in the EU. Its votes inside the EU are therefore representative of the Majority who gave that Government the power to vote on their behalf. So stop this silly notion that the EU is to blame for anything you do not like! Rubbish!
Fourthly, the scaremongering about what an EU Army could be, do or be funded by, by individuals without any facts is pure mindless Pub Talk drivel.
Personally, I do not see an issue with an EU Army in what will hopefully become a more Federalised EU if it can be demonstrably positive for security and economy. I am all for Unity! The World is my home, not some tiny island wanting to be separate.
Nations behaving completely separately is negative in my view, small-minded and harks back to a more insular less educated time. It started out as Cavemen in little groups, became Villages, then Towns, Cities and Country's. Next natural step has to be more Global harmonisation. Yes to no centrally-controlled Military, yes to checks and balances so no one Group can control another but equally yes to more working and living together and removing antiquated borders.
Anti-EU comments about how it is run and controlled as if it is a Dictatorship are pure ignorant garbage! Educate yourselves.
Coolbanana said:
...
Secondly, if the 'Rules' are requested to be changed to allow for a Majority vote on such as issue to win the day, such a move must first be approved by ALL Member States.
...
How much of the EU electorate do you think are aware of what has moved from unanimous voting to QMV over the last 10yrs?Secondly, if the 'Rules' are requested to be changed to allow for a Majority vote on such as issue to win the day, such a move must first be approved by ALL Member States.
...
Coolbanana said:
...
... The World is my home, not some tiny island wanting to be separate.
...
And yet the EU treats 28 countries in the world very differently to the other 167 or so. Shouldn't you be wanting the whole of your "home" treated the same way? ... The World is my home, not some tiny island wanting to be separate.
...
Phud said:
That was not NATO, as you know, also not the forces, it was a political desire by labour....
Suggest you look up reasons this country has gone to war.
Reasons? The country has gone to war in order for Blair to remain bestie with Bush Jr. Suggest you look up reasons this country has gone to war.
The notion that army is used for defensive purposes is laughable.
I personally don't have an issue with EU defence force, with clearly defined remits.
Coolbanana said:
So many idiotic assumptions!
Firstly, an EU Army is indeed a fantasy unless ALL Members States agreed to one.
Secondly, if the 'Rules' are requested to be changed to allow for a Majority vote on such as issue to win the day, such a move must first be approved by ALL Member States.
Thirdly, had the UK wanted to remain in the EU, it could veto both ideas. So the idea of an EU Army was not a risk for the UK unless the UK AGREED to it and indeed, wanted it. So the issue for those who do not want to see an EU Army would NOT be with the EU, but with the UK Government if it does something they do not like. You have a Democratic Vote for your Government, it is Democratically elected and it represents you in the EU. Its votes inside the EU are therefore representative of the Majority who gave that Government the power to vote on their behalf. So stop this silly notion that the EU is to blame for anything you do not like! Rubbish!
Fourthly, the scaremongering about what an EU Army could be, do or be funded by, by individuals without any facts is pure mindless Pub Talk drivel.
Personally, I do not see an issue with an EU Army in what will hopefully become a more Federalised EU if it can be demonstrably positive for security and economy. I am all for Unity! The World is my home, not some tiny island wanting to be separate.
Nations behaving completely separately is negative in my view, small-minded and harks back to a more insular less educated time. It started out as Cavemen in little groups, became Villages, then Towns, Cities and Country's. Next natural step has to be more Global harmonisation. Yes to no centrally-controlled Military, yes to checks and balances so no one Group can control another but equally yes to more working and living together and removing antiquated borders.
Anti-EU comments about how it is run and controlled as if it is a Dictatorship are pure ignorant garbage! Educate yourselves.
Spoken like a.Miss World contestant.Firstly, an EU Army is indeed a fantasy unless ALL Members States agreed to one.
Secondly, if the 'Rules' are requested to be changed to allow for a Majority vote on such as issue to win the day, such a move must first be approved by ALL Member States.
Thirdly, had the UK wanted to remain in the EU, it could veto both ideas. So the idea of an EU Army was not a risk for the UK unless the UK AGREED to it and indeed, wanted it. So the issue for those who do not want to see an EU Army would NOT be with the EU, but with the UK Government if it does something they do not like. You have a Democratic Vote for your Government, it is Democratically elected and it represents you in the EU. Its votes inside the EU are therefore representative of the Majority who gave that Government the power to vote on their behalf. So stop this silly notion that the EU is to blame for anything you do not like! Rubbish!
Fourthly, the scaremongering about what an EU Army could be, do or be funded by, by individuals without any facts is pure mindless Pub Talk drivel.
Personally, I do not see an issue with an EU Army in what will hopefully become a more Federalised EU if it can be demonstrably positive for security and economy. I am all for Unity! The World is my home, not some tiny island wanting to be separate.
Nations behaving completely separately is negative in my view, small-minded and harks back to a more insular less educated time. It started out as Cavemen in little groups, became Villages, then Towns, Cities and Country's. Next natural step has to be more Global harmonisation. Yes to no centrally-controlled Military, yes to checks and balances so no one Group can control another but equally yes to more working and living together and removing antiquated borders.
Anti-EU comments about how it is run and controlled as if it is a Dictatorship are pure ignorant garbage! Educate yourselves.
What a load of drivel,can't even pull Poland and Hungary into line at the moment,so how the hell would an army work harmoniously?
Coolbanana said:
I am all for Unity! The World is my home, not some tiny island wanting to be separate.
Nations behaving completely separately is negative in my view, small-minded and harks back to a more insular less educated time. It started out as Cavemen in little groups, became Villages, then Towns, Cities and Country's.
I'm for co-operation if you want to. Unity is, well, assimilation is it not? as one? (although 7 of 9 could unify me anyday.)Nations behaving completely separately is negative in my view, small-minded and harks back to a more insular less educated time. It started out as Cavemen in little groups, became Villages, then Towns, Cities and Country's.
but people are different. You can choose where to live and which communities based upon your own views and each community/countries can be very different. Although some countries wont let you in and other wont let you leave.
If we are all the same, unified, assimilated then you are going to have many unhappy bunnies repressed in that unity. Some may even want to leave the all embracing hug of loveliness or escape the fence and man with the gun telling them how good it is that and that they should be grateful for being in the club.
Edited by superlightr on Thursday 14th September 11:29
Edited by superlightr on Thursday 14th September 11:30
superlightr said:
Coolbanana said:
I am all for Unity! The World is my home, not some tiny island wanting to be separate.
Nations behaving completely separately is negative in my view, small-minded and harks back to a more insular less educated time. It started out as Cavemen in little groups, became Villages, then Towns, Cities and Country's.
I'm for co-operation if you want to. Unity is, well, assimilation is it not? as one? (although 7 of 9 could unify me anyday.)Nations behaving completely separately is negative in my view, small-minded and harks back to a more insular less educated time. It started out as Cavemen in little groups, became Villages, then Towns, Cities and Country's.
but people are different. You can choose where to live and which communities based upon your own views and each community can be very different. If we are all the same, unified, assimilated then you are going to have many unhappy bunnies repressed in that unity.
Coolbanana said:
So many idiotic assumptions!
Firstly, an EU Army is indeed a fantasy unless ALL Members States agreed to one.
Secondly, if the 'Rules' are requested to be changed to allow for a Majority vote on such as issue to win the day, such a move must first be approved by ALL Member States.
Thirdly, had the UK wanted to remain in the EU, it could veto both ideas. So the idea of an EU Army was not a risk for the UK unless the UK AGREED to it and indeed, wanted it. So the issue for those who do not want to see an EU Army would NOT be with the EU, but with the UK Government if it does something they do not like. You have a Democratic Vote for your Government, it is Democratically elected and it represents you in the EU. Its votes inside the EU are therefore representative of the Majority who gave that Government the power to vote on their behalf. So stop this silly notion that the EU is to blame for anything you do not like! Rubbish!
Fourthly, the scaremongering about what an EU Army could be, do or be funded by, by individuals without any facts is pure mindless Pub Talk drivel.
Personally, I do not see an issue with an EU Army in what will hopefully become a more Federalised EU if it can be demonstrably positive for security and economy. I am all for Unity! The World is my home, not some tiny island wanting to be separate.
Nations behaving completely separately is negative in my view, small-minded and harks back to a more insular less educated time. It started out as Cavemen in little groups, became Villages, then Towns, Cities and Country's. Next natural step has to be more Global harmonisation. Yes to no centrally-controlled Military, yes to checks and balances so no one Group can control another but equally yes to more working and living together and removing antiquated borders.
Anti-EU comments about how it is run and controlled as if it is a Dictatorship are pure ignorant garbage! Educate yourselves.
Didn't Hungary and another EU country refuse migrants and even wanted to veto taking any, this has been overruled by an EU court. I imagine part of their refusal is based on them thinking that Greece/Italy shouldn't have accepted all the migrants in the first place and they should've been returned to which shore they cast off from and not collected and brought to shore in the EU. Countries of the EU are being forced to do things they don't want to, against their will. As far as I'm aware this is more of a of fact than opinion.Firstly, an EU Army is indeed a fantasy unless ALL Members States agreed to one.
Secondly, if the 'Rules' are requested to be changed to allow for a Majority vote on such as issue to win the day, such a move must first be approved by ALL Member States.
Thirdly, had the UK wanted to remain in the EU, it could veto both ideas. So the idea of an EU Army was not a risk for the UK unless the UK AGREED to it and indeed, wanted it. So the issue for those who do not want to see an EU Army would NOT be with the EU, but with the UK Government if it does something they do not like. You have a Democratic Vote for your Government, it is Democratically elected and it represents you in the EU. Its votes inside the EU are therefore representative of the Majority who gave that Government the power to vote on their behalf. So stop this silly notion that the EU is to blame for anything you do not like! Rubbish!
Fourthly, the scaremongering about what an EU Army could be, do or be funded by, by individuals without any facts is pure mindless Pub Talk drivel.
Personally, I do not see an issue with an EU Army in what will hopefully become a more Federalised EU if it can be demonstrably positive for security and economy. I am all for Unity! The World is my home, not some tiny island wanting to be separate.
Nations behaving completely separately is negative in my view, small-minded and harks back to a more insular less educated time. It started out as Cavemen in little groups, became Villages, then Towns, Cities and Country's. Next natural step has to be more Global harmonisation. Yes to no centrally-controlled Military, yes to checks and balances so no one Group can control another but equally yes to more working and living together and removing antiquated borders.
Anti-EU comments about how it is run and controlled as if it is a Dictatorship are pure ignorant garbage! Educate yourselves.
An EU army would work for the interests of the EU, these interests may not always align with the interests of the UK which is where the reluctancy from many posters stems from. Theoretically an EU army makes sense, standardised equipment and training, distribution of troops and equipment would make the army very cost effective. Although experience tells me many idea's are absolutely brilliant in theory but terrible in practice. An EU army is likely one of them.
Whilst watching the link to Junkers speech I came upon Farrage's reply.In a nut shell the EU will start financially backing some political parties and try to influence the ballot box that way.If it works they will get friendly governments and it is plain sailing from then on.
Years ago I would have called for tin foil hat but now I believe anythi g is possible with the right amount of money or influence. I even contemplate 9/11 could have some element of an inside job.
Years ago I would have called for tin foil hat but now I believe anythi g is possible with the right amount of money or influence. I even contemplate 9/11 could have some element of an inside job.
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