Discussion
smifffymoto said:
Whilst watching the link to Junkers speech I came upon Farrage's reply.In a nut shell the EU will start financially backing some political parties and try to influence the ballot box that way.If it works they will get friendly governments and it is plain sailing from then on.
Years ago I would have called for tin foil hat but now I believe anythi g is possible with the right amount of money or influence. I even contemplate 9/11 could have some element of an inside job.
mk1 was Greece a couple of years ago.Years ago I would have called for tin foil hat but now I believe anythi g is possible with the right amount of money or influence. I even contemplate 9/11 could have some element of an inside job.
It's far from far fetched.
CaptainSlow said:
The problem with an EU army is that it breaks the link between the military and the population, history tells us this is never good. The Generals will serve the unelected EU leaders not the people.
The political side has always been like that, so why not the military one 
Here's a scenario. Greece heavily default on whatever they owe due to punitive demands, there's a change of government that tell the EU to stuff it, start turning away refugees pushing the boats back out to sea or towing them to another EU state. The EU then invade to take over and get 'what's owed' and install a government that will do its bidding.
Mothersruin said:
Here's a scenario. Greece heavily default on whatever they owe due to punitive demands, there's a change of government that tell the EU to stuff it, start turning away refugees pushing the boats back out to sea or towing them to another EU state. The EU then invade to take over and get 'what's owed' and install a government that will do its bidding.
Thats not a scenario,thats a mishmash of whats already happened in the southern states.Mothersruin said:
Here's a scenario. Greece heavily default on whatever they owe due to punitive demands, there's a change of government that tell the EU to stuff it, start turning away refugees pushing the boats back out to sea or towing them to another EU state. The EU then invade to take over and get 'what's owed' and install a government that will do its bidding.
Breadvan72 recommended a book to me called "And the Weak Suffer What They Must" by Yanis Varoufakis. I recommend it as a read to anyone posting on these threads. Especially those thinking the way the EU operates is healthy.He's not without his own spin/political angle. But he provides enough links (that aren't more of his own musings) for the reader to make their own mind up. And it's an engaging read.
He wobbles logically around pg 100. Around pg 215 is interesting for those debating Ponzi
Coolbanana said:
Nations behaving completely separately is negative in my view, small-minded and harks back to a more insular less educated time. It started out as Cavemen in little groups, became Villages, then Towns, Cities and Country's. Next natural step has to be more Global harmonisation. Yes to no centrally-controlled Military, yes to checks and balances so no one Group can control another but equally yes to more working and living together and removing antiquated borders.
With any Empire the power and money always finds itself concentrated in a way that leads to its collapse as the power holders lose their grasp on what the people want or need, it's why nations tend to form in the size and political structure their circumstances require, quite often the geography and climate of the region plays a major role in how the best political structures form. A centralised power over a diverse entity is doomed to failure.
Funkycoldribena said:
Mothersruin said:
Here's a scenario. Greece heavily default on whatever they owe due to punitive demands, there's a change of government that tell the EU to stuff it, start turning away refugees pushing the boats back out to sea or towing them to another EU state. The EU then invade to take over and get 'what's owed' and install a government that will do its bidding.
Thats not a scenario,thats a mishmash of whats already happened in the southern states.Murph7355 said:
Breadvan72 recommended a book to me called "And the Weak Suffer What They Must" by Yanis Varoufakis. I recommend it as a read to anyone posting on these threads. Especially those thinking the way the EU operates is healthy.
He's not without his own spin/political angle. But he provides enough links (that aren't more of his own musings) for the reader to make their own mind up. And it's an engaging read.
He wobbles logically around pg 100. Around pg 215 is interesting for those debating Ponzi
Damn BV72, Damn you and damn Amazon one click.He's not without his own spin/political angle. But he provides enough links (that aren't more of his own musings) for the reader to make their own mind up. And it's an engaging read.
He wobbles logically around pg 100. Around pg 215 is interesting for those debating Ponzi
Should arrive tomorrow.
Coolbanana said:
Personally, I do not see an issue with an EU Army in what will hopefully become a more Federalised EU if it can be demonstrably positive for security and economy. I am all for Unity! The World is my home, not some tiny island wanting to be separate.
A drunken power crazed anglophobe, contemptuous of democracy, obsessed with expanding the EU and centralising more and more power into his hands, gets his own private army. What can possibly go wrong?Dr Jekyll said:
Coolbanana said:
Personally, I do not see an issue with an EU Army in what will hopefully become a more Federalised EU if it can be demonstrably positive for security and economy. I am all for Unity! The World is my home, not some tiny island wanting to be separate.
A drunken power crazed anglophobe, contemptuous of democracy, obsessed with expanding the EU and centralising more and more power into his hands, gets his own private army. What can possibly go wrong?Funkycoldribena said:
Coolbanana said:
So many idiotic assumptions!
Firstly, an EU Army is indeed a fantasy unless ALL Members States agreed to one.
Secondly, if the 'Rules' are requested to be changed to allow for a Majority vote on such as issue to win the day, such a move must first be approved by ALL Member States.
Thirdly, had the UK wanted to remain in the EU, it could veto both ideas. So the idea of an EU Army was not a risk for the UK unless the UK AGREED to it and indeed, wanted it. So the issue for those who do not want to see an EU Army would NOT be with the EU, but with the UK Government if it does something they do not like. You have a Democratic Vote for your Government, it is Democratically elected and it represents you in the EU. Its votes inside the EU are therefore representative of the Majority who gave that Government the power to vote on their behalf. So stop this silly notion that the EU is to blame for anything you do not like! Rubbish!
Fourthly, the scaremongering about what an EU Army could be, do or be funded by, by individuals without any facts is pure mindless Pub Talk drivel.
Personally, I do not see an issue with an EU Army in what will hopefully become a more Federalised EU if it can be demonstrably positive for security and economy. I am all for Unity! The World is my home, not some tiny island wanting to be separate.
Nations behaving completely separately is negative in my view, small-minded and harks back to a more insular less educated time. It started out as Cavemen in little groups, became Villages, then Towns, Cities and Country's. Next natural step has to be more Global harmonisation. Yes to no centrally-controlled Military, yes to checks and balances so no one Group can control another but equally yes to more working and living together and removing antiquated borders.
Anti-EU comments about how it is run and controlled as if it is a Dictatorship are pure ignorant garbage! Educate yourselves.
Spoken like a.Miss World contestant.Firstly, an EU Army is indeed a fantasy unless ALL Members States agreed to one.
Secondly, if the 'Rules' are requested to be changed to allow for a Majority vote on such as issue to win the day, such a move must first be approved by ALL Member States.
Thirdly, had the UK wanted to remain in the EU, it could veto both ideas. So the idea of an EU Army was not a risk for the UK unless the UK AGREED to it and indeed, wanted it. So the issue for those who do not want to see an EU Army would NOT be with the EU, but with the UK Government if it does something they do not like. You have a Democratic Vote for your Government, it is Democratically elected and it represents you in the EU. Its votes inside the EU are therefore representative of the Majority who gave that Government the power to vote on their behalf. So stop this silly notion that the EU is to blame for anything you do not like! Rubbish!
Fourthly, the scaremongering about what an EU Army could be, do or be funded by, by individuals without any facts is pure mindless Pub Talk drivel.
Personally, I do not see an issue with an EU Army in what will hopefully become a more Federalised EU if it can be demonstrably positive for security and economy. I am all for Unity! The World is my home, not some tiny island wanting to be separate.
Nations behaving completely separately is negative in my view, small-minded and harks back to a more insular less educated time. It started out as Cavemen in little groups, became Villages, then Towns, Cities and Country's. Next natural step has to be more Global harmonisation. Yes to no centrally-controlled Military, yes to checks and balances so no one Group can control another but equally yes to more working and living together and removing antiquated borders.
Anti-EU comments about how it is run and controlled as if it is a Dictatorship are pure ignorant garbage! Educate yourselves.
What a load of drivel,can't even pull Poland and Hungary into line at the moment,so how the hell would an army work harmoniously?
Anyway, what good is nato when a member wants a islamic ideology ?
Could the EU army be to police this? taken from times but a brief snippet
France and Germany are demanding the right to suspend the European Union’s passport-free travel zone for up to four years at times of crisis amid fears over terrorism and migration.
A confidential diplomatic paper seen by The Times reveals that the EU’s two biggest countries are pushing for the Schengen zone to be suspended in “exceptional circumstances”, making all travellers subject to border checks as they enter a country.
The European Commission is pushing for an end, within weeks, to emergency frontier controls introduced after terrorist attacks and during the EU’s migration crisis.
The demand will be a blow to Jean-Claude Juncker, president of the commission, who said on Wednesday that the passport-free travel zone, alongside the euro, was a foundation for a future federal Europe. He was accused of drawing up a blueprint for a “United States of Europe” with more centralised powers, as he called for Bulgaria and Romania to join Schengen
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/france-and...
France and Germany are demanding the right to suspend the European Union’s passport-free travel zone for up to four years at times of crisis amid fears over terrorism and migration.
A confidential diplomatic paper seen by The Times reveals that the EU’s two biggest countries are pushing for the Schengen zone to be suspended in “exceptional circumstances”, making all travellers subject to border checks as they enter a country.
The European Commission is pushing for an end, within weeks, to emergency frontier controls introduced after terrorist attacks and during the EU’s migration crisis.
The demand will be a blow to Jean-Claude Juncker, president of the commission, who said on Wednesday that the passport-free travel zone, alongside the euro, was a foundation for a future federal Europe. He was accused of drawing up a blueprint for a “United States of Europe” with more centralised powers, as he called for Bulgaria and Romania to join Schengen
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/france-and...
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