Man killed because his cruise control wouldn't switch off!
Discussion
Where computer things are involved, I am convinced you can't rule out a software error.
We have had state of the art computer controlled ships in the North Sea which have suddenly withoit warning moved off location rapidly.
Investigation by the computer software experts could not find a reason on some of these incidents.
These incidents involve could not only result in the loss of life, divers on the bottom for example, but billion dollar structures and pipe lines. No oil company would allow a vessel back on station unless they were 100% sure all investigative avenues have been explored, and neither would the HSE allow it.
But they do after they find no reason for the glitch. Dont forget the fly by wire plane accidents, stick up, nose went down. All the problems with some Fords suddenly accelerating as well.
I also think like the fires we are having in the Vauxhall cars (I think it's them), and was it Peugeot cars rolling down hill after the handbrake was ON, not much was done until it happened to a few and caught someone's attention.
No doubt the investigation is finished, did the coroner say suicide, if so that's it, till god forbid the next incident.
We have had state of the art computer controlled ships in the North Sea which have suddenly withoit warning moved off location rapidly.
Investigation by the computer software experts could not find a reason on some of these incidents.
These incidents involve could not only result in the loss of life, divers on the bottom for example, but billion dollar structures and pipe lines. No oil company would allow a vessel back on station unless they were 100% sure all investigative avenues have been explored, and neither would the HSE allow it.
But they do after they find no reason for the glitch. Dont forget the fly by wire plane accidents, stick up, nose went down. All the problems with some Fords suddenly accelerating as well.
I also think like the fires we are having in the Vauxhall cars (I think it's them), and was it Peugeot cars rolling down hill after the handbrake was ON, not much was done until it happened to a few and caught someone's attention.
No doubt the investigation is finished, did the coroner say suicide, if so that's it, till god forbid the next incident.
No software issue would have prevented the brakes from working, you push a peddle and fluid pushes Pistons that squeeze the pads onto the disc, they even work with the engine switched off, with the battery disconnected, no ECU and the engine on a bench in a workshop.
All brakes will stop a car even on full throttle.
It was suicide, or stupidity.
All brakes will stop a car even on full throttle.
It was suicide, or stupidity.
gruffalo said:
No software issue would have prevented the brakes from working, you push a peddle and fluid pushes Pistons that squeeze the pads onto the disc, they even work with the engine switched off, with the battery disconnected, no ECU and the engine on a bench in a workshop.
All brakes will stop a car even on full throttle.
It was suicide, or stupidity.
I am no car buff, so you are saying a car with the engine on full bore, the driver could push the brake and stop it, yes I know how the brake works, but difficult to believe it would actually stop a runaway car. Just asking.All brakes will stop a car even on full throttle.
It was suicide, or stupidity.
Vipers said:
I am no car buff, so you are saying a car with the engine on full bore, the driver could push the brake and stop it, yes I know how the brake works, but difficult to believe it would actually stop a runaway car. Just asking.
Next time you are driving your car, floor it at 3k, wait a second then press the brakes as HARD as you can.You will stop, i guarantee it.
gruffalo said:
No software issue would have prevented the brakes from working, you push a peddle and fluid pushes Pistons that squeeze the pads onto the disc, they even work with the engine switched off, with the battery disconnected, no ECU and the engine on a bench in a workshop.
All brakes will stop a car even on full throttle.
It was suicide, or stupidity.
Exactly; with sufficient doubt for the coroner not to feel able to give a suicide verdict.All brakes will stop a car even on full throttle.
It was suicide, or stupidity.
Vipers said:
I am no car buff, so you are saying a car with the engine on full bore, the driver could push the brake and stop it, yes I know how the brake works, but difficult to believe it would actually stop a runaway car. Just asking.
How quickly does your car do 0-60?How quickly does it do 60-0?
If the latter is less than the former, your brakes are more powerful than your engine.
xjay1337 said:
Vipers said:
I am no car buff, so you are saying a car with the engine on full bore, the driver could push the brake and stop it, yes I know how the brake works, but difficult to believe it would actually stop a runaway car. Just asking.
Next time you are driving your car, floor it at 3k, wait a second then press the brakes as HARD as you can.You will stop, i guarantee it.
Vipers said:
xjay1337 said:
Vipers said:
I am no car buff, so you are saying a car with the engine on full bore, the driver could push the brake and stop it, yes I know how the brake works, but difficult to believe it would actually stop a runaway car. Just asking.
Next time you are driving your car, floor it at 3k, wait a second then press the brakes as HARD as you can.You will stop, i guarantee it.
I know they've said no computer fault but I simply don't believe it. I've had my fair share of computer faults in cars that are invisible to a dealer.
gruffalo said:
No software issue would have prevented the brakes from working, you push a peddle and fluid pushes Pistons that squeeze the pads onto the disc, they even work with the engine switched off, with the battery disconnected, no ECU and the engine on a bench in a workshop.
Unless the ABS system decided the wheels were locked and released the brake pressure...Edited by GadgeS3C on Wednesday 14th December 11:36
Vipers said:
xjay1337 said:
Vipers said:
I am no car buff, so you are saying a car with the engine on full bore, the driver could push the brake and stop it, yes I know how the brake works, but difficult to believe it would actually stop a runaway car. Just asking.
Next time you are driving your car, floor it at 3k, wait a second then press the brakes as HARD as you can.You will stop, i guarantee it.
If you put the brakes on the car will slow dramatically, to aid this the turbo waste gate opens and all boost pressure is lost roughly halving the power output of the engine thus allowing the car to slow faster.
You will stop and you will stop quite quickly.
Vipers said:
I am no car buff, so you are saying a car with the engine on full bore, the driver could push the brake and stop it, yes I know how the brake works, but difficult to believe it would actually stop a runaway car. Just asking.
See my post a few pages back. I have an Octavia VRS so did some experimenting.Even under full acceleration at full boost, peak power. Smacking the brake with my left foot made the car stop so hard it nosedived and threw my dog off her feet. I was expecting it to slow down but maybe a bit slower. I certainly didnt think it would stop that hard or I would not have done it with the poor dog in the back!!
But lesson learned in an Octavia VRS brakes > engine by a comfortable margin.
RB Will said:
Vipers said:
I am no car buff, so you are saying a car with the engine on full bore, the driver could push the brake and stop it, yes I know how the brake works, but difficult to believe it would actually stop a runaway car. Just asking.
See my post a few pages back. I have an Octavia VRS so did some experimenting.Even under full acceleration at full boost, peak power. Smacking the brake with my left foot made the car stop so hard it nosedived and threw my dog off her feet. I was expecting it to slow down but maybe a bit slower. I certainly didnt think it would stop that hard or I would not have done it with the poor dog in the back!!
But lesson learned in an Octavia VRS brakes > engine by a comfortable margin.
gruffalo said:
Let's say that the butterfly was jammed open so on full throttle with the driver unable to do anything in what I have read to be a turbo diesel VW.
Diesels don't have a butterfly TO jam open. The acceleration is governed by fuel supply, not air supply.It's entirely possible that the turbo seals failed, and the engine started burning engine oil, of course. And turning the engine off would not have stopped it. But that would have been obvious from the investigation, it would probably have run out of oil before it crashed - stopping the engine - and sticking it in neutral would have stopped forward motion.
xjay1337 said:
Vipers said:
I am no car buff, so you are saying a car with the engine on full bore, the driver could push the brake and stop it, yes I know how the brake works, but difficult to believe it would actually stop a runaway car. Just asking.
Next time you are driving your car, floor it at 3k, wait a second then press the brakes as HARD as you can.You will stop, i guarantee it.
moanthebairns said:
RB Will said:
Vipers said:
I am no car buff, so you are saying a car with the engine on full bore, the driver could push the brake and stop it, yes I know how the brake works, but difficult to believe it would actually stop a runaway car. Just asking.
See my post a few pages back. I have an Octavia VRS so did some experimenting.Even under full acceleration at full boost, peak power. Smacking the brake with my left foot made the car stop so hard it nosedived and threw my dog off her feet. I was expecting it to slow down but maybe a bit slower. I certainly didnt think it would stop that hard or I would not have done it with the poor dog in the back!!
But lesson learned in an Octavia VRS brakes > engine by a comfortable margin.
Secondly, on the vast majority of cars the brakes are way more powerful than the engine, you can do 60-0 a lot quicker than you can do 0-60.
TooMany2cvs said:
gruffalo said:
Let's say that the butterfly was jammed open so on full throttle with the driver unable to do anything in what I have read to be a turbo diesel VW.
Diesels don't have a butterfly TO jam open. The acceleration is governed by fuel supply, not air supply.It's entirely possible that the turbo seals failed, and the engine started burning engine oil, of course. And turning the engine off would not have stopped it. But that would have been obvious from the investigation, it would probably have run out of oil before it crashed - stopping the engine - and sticking it in neutral would have stopped forward motion.
Even on a runaway engine the foot break would be more than enough to stop the car.
Isn't all this talk overlooking the point that he was driving a manual car (I think) and could have just yanked it out of gear? Even an auto let's you slip it into neutral.
There is no way that any combination of faults could have caused this IMO, it was driver error, intentional or otherwise.
There is no way that any combination of faults could have caused this IMO, it was driver error, intentional or otherwise.
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