Man killed because his cruise control wouldn't switch off!

[Zombie]

FunkyNige said:

Don't most modern cars have an 'Emergency Brake Assist' type fucntion where you if you hit the brake 'quite hard' it puts them on full for you?

Quick Google brings up a pretty picture of it working

That's a bit misleading. You'd expect the 'x' axis to show time, but it appears to pedal pressure with no or undefined correlation to time. Also, there's no advantage to be gained in additional braking force over the ABS trigger threshold.

[Zod]

Zombie said:

FunkyNige said:

Don't most modern cars have an 'Emergency Brake Assist' type fucntion where you if you hit the brake 'quite hard' it puts them on full for you?

Quick Google brings up a pretty picture of it working

That's a bit misleading. You'd expect the 'x' axis to show time, but it appears to show force. Also, there's no advantage to be gained in additional braking force over the ABS trigger threshold.

There is where the driver releases the pedal pressure.

[Zombie]

TooMany2cvs said:

Jobbo said:

TooMany2cvs said:

On some loose surfaces, where a "wedge" builds up - gravel, some snow, that sort of thing. But that's about it.

Yes, I remember that Audi advert too. But it was from over 30 years ago and I bet even loose surfaces aren't a problem for ABS now.

It's basic physics, rather than electronic sophistication. A loose surface locks quickly and easily - long braking distance if you don't let it lock. But let it lock, and effectively shove a big wedge under the front of each tyre, you stop quickly.

I agree to a certain extent. In the real world, this is only really applicable to un-compacted snow or loose gravel. Given that when it does snow and roads grind to a halt, more often than not you'll be on compacted snow, in which case ABS would offer a significant advantage if the car is fitted with winter tyres as they rely on the wheels turning to bite into the snow and generate grip.

Which may explain why you can't turn the systems off.

[speedking31]

Has anyone tested yanking the handbrake on at 100 mph to see whether they turn 180° and come to a safe stop going backwards?

[Zombie]

Zod said:

There is where the driver releases the pedal pressure.

Who does that if a crash is imminent?

[robm3]

RB Will said:

After reading this I thought I had better confirm. Took the VRS out last night and tried resting my foot on the brake while accelerating and you are right it cuts the throttle, which goes to explaining why it stopped quite so hard when I first tried it!
It doesnt require much brake to make this happen either. I could get it to accelerate with a very light brake applied but anything approaching normal braking shut the throttle down. I think there must be somehting like a 0.5 sec delay on this system as I can heel toe on a fun drive with no problems so it lets me rev while the brake is solidly applied.

I then took the OHs Mini Cooper S out to see if it did the same, it didnt cut the throttle. Similar bhp to the VRS and hard in 2nd gear it was a bit more effort to stop, you could definitely feel the brakes having to work against the engine but it did still stop the car harder than you would in normal driving and the brakes on that are a lot smaller and 12 years older design than the VRS.

After all the fiasco with Toyotas, 2015 cars onwards now have software that kills the throttle if both are applied (within a second or two if I recall).

Found this about it in Car and Driver:

ISince the advent of electronic throttle control, many automakers have added software to program the throttle to close—and therefore cut power—when the brakes are applied. Cars from BMW, Chrysler, Nissan/Infiniti, Porsche, and Volkswagen/Audi have this ...

And in another story, Lotus had to disable this feature which was inherent in their Toyota engined Elises as it effected the track performance.

[blueg33]

robm3 said:

RB Will said:

After reading this I thought I had better confirm. Took the VRS out last night and tried resting my foot on the brake while accelerating and you are right it cuts the throttle, which goes to explaining why it stopped quite so hard when I first tried it!
It doesnt require much brake to make this happen either. I could get it to accelerate with a very light brake applied but anything approaching normal braking shut the throttle down. I think there must be somehting like a 0.5 sec delay on this system as I can heel toe on a fun drive with no problems so it lets me rev while the brake is solidly applied.

I then took the OHs Mini Cooper S out to see if it did the same, it didnt cut the throttle. Similar bhp to the VRS and hard in 2nd gear it was a bit more effort to stop, you could definitely feel the brakes having to work against the engine but it did still stop the car harder than you would in normal driving and the brakes on that are a lot smaller and 12 years older design than the VRS.

After all the fiasco with Toyotas, 2015 cars onwards now have software that kills the throttle if both are applied (within a second or two if I recall).

Found this about it in Car and Driver:

ISince the advent of electronic throttle control, many automakers have added software to program the throttle to close—and therefore cut power—when the brakes are applied. Cars from BMW, Chrysler, Nissan/Infiniti, Porsche, and Volkswagen/Audi have this ...

And in another story, Lotus had to disable this feature which was inherent in their Toyota engined Elises as it effected the track performance.

Also disabled in the Evora, otherwise heel and toe wouldn't work

[Zod]

Zombie said:

Zod said:

There is where the driver releases the pedal pressure.

Who does that if a crash is imminent?

Who knows what people like this guy do?

[RB Will]

speedking31 said:

Has anyone tested yanking the handbrake on at 100 mph to see whether they turn 180° and come to a safe stop going backwards?

I have done various bits of experimenting for this thread but I'm drawing the line there lol

[JontyR]

RB Will said:

speedking31 said:

Has anyone tested yanking the handbrake on at 100 mph to see whether they turn 180° and come to a safe stop going backwards?

I have done various bits of experimenting for this thread but I'm drawing the line there lol

Id like to see this....I think the P1 would be the best car to try it in! But I will watch from the safety of my own car if that is ok rather than the passenger seat!!

[cptsideways]

speedking31 said:

Has anyone tested yanking the handbrake on at 100 mph to see whether they turn 180° and come to a safe stop going backwards?

Yes & lots more

It does nothing of the sort, the rear end will follow the path of the camber of the road surface, its then up to you to steer in whatever available direction you might then have.

Not easy & it takes practice! DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME lol

[cptsideways]

Zombie said:

Zod said:

There is where the driver releases the pedal pressure.

Who does that if a crash is imminent?

About 75% of drivers do, Toyota Research that I'm aware of suggested most drivers would crash where they didn't need to.

ETA
90% fail to brake to 100% according to Merc

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_brake_assi...

Edited by cptsideways on Saturday 14th January 22:20

[saaby93]

robm3 said:

After all the fiasco with Toyotas, 2015 cars onwards now have software that kills the throttle if both are applied (within a second or two if I recall).

Found this about it in Car and Driver:

ISince the advent of electronic throttle control, many automakers have added software to program the throttle to close—and therefore cut power—when the brakes are applied. Cars from BMW, Chrysler, Nissan/Infiniti, Porsche, and Volkswagen/Audi have this ...

And in another story, Lotus had to disable this feature which was inherent in their Toyota engined Elises as it effected the track performance.

Wasn't the Toyota problem that even though they had the brake overide in software, if the software crashed it couldnt overide. Quick course on failure modes.

[focusxr5]

I'm completely guessing here and I didn't know the bloke so this is merely my thoughts and thoughts alone. Is it possible he had recently not been very happy in his life? Perhaps had a massive life insurance policy but which wouldn't pay out if he committed suicide. Perhaps he decided to take his own life in a manner which, on the face of it, would make it look like mechanical/electronic error.

No evidence at all to back it up, just throwing a different argument in. Unless it's already been said. I admit I haven't read the whole thread.

[Starfighter]

If this is the case then it was overly complex. Surely easier to go out, get up to some silly speed on cruise and then just drop of the road into something very solid and it would just look like falling asleep and be recorded as accidental.

[davepoth]

Starfighter said:

If this is the case then it was overly complex. Surely easier to go out, get up to some silly speed on cruise and then just drop of the road into something very solid and it would just look like falling asleep and be recorded as accidental.

I guess it depends on whether you consider suicide to be a rational action.

[B'stard Child]

focusxr5 said:

Unless it's already been said. I admit I haven't read the whole thread.

I think it might have been offered as an explanation - thread is only six pages - a quick skim would have been enough

[Starfighter]

davepoth said:

I guess it depends on whether you consider suicide to be a rational action.

A debate for another thread, perhaps.

If the "victim" was planning on suicide then it was done in a complex way such as to leave open questions. A simple "fell asleep" and crashed would be subject to less questioning but in court and on here.