The economic consequences of Brexit (Vol 2)
Discussion
Breadvan72 said:
zygalski said:
I sense a huge amount of deflection from the Brexit boys in the next few months, along the lines of 'Brexit could've been a success if not for... *insert one of a dozen or more reasons*
It is the hoary old "stab in the back" argument, used by rightists since forever. If only we had not been betrayed by trahison des clercs and so on, say the faux-populist rightists. If only everyone else (ie the 62% who did not vote to leave) had got behind this project, all would have been fab! Get your excuses in early.pgh said:
Didn't you know that Jean-Claude Junker carried that Spanish teacher on his back here to the UK. He then walked back so that he could carry her children here too.
Before the European Communities vote in 1975, nobody in the UK had ever even met a Spanish person.
Of course it's all down to the EU. It's not like humans have ever migrated to live and work in different areas without the protection of the ECJ is it?!
Before the European Communities vote in 1975, nobody in the UK had ever even met a Spanish person.
Of course it's all down to the EU. It's not like humans have ever migrated to live and work in different areas without the protection of the ECJ is it?!
Yes, I must have imagined my two infant school mates, one Spanish and the other Italian.
Eddie Strohacker said:
You & others are free to ignore me. You choose not to, prefeeringis usually to denigrate people personally or repeatedly insinuate they're less intelligent than you.
I've said no such thing. What I have resisted (and where I've claimed you don't understand what I'm saying) is where you've tried to twist and manipulate what I've actually said.Eddie Strohacker said:
I find that tedious as do others...
You are free to ignore me. But if you make nonsense statements such as the one about people 'moving around' then people will pick up on it. As others already have.Eddie Strohacker said:
You & others are free to ignore me. You choose not to, preferring usually to denigrate people personally or repeatedly insinuate they're less intelligent than you.
sidicks said:
I've said no such thing. What I have resisted (and where I've claimed you don't understand what I'm saying) is where you've tried to twist and manipulate what I've actually said.
sidicks said:
Eddie Strohacker said:
I was in a conversation with Andymadmak. Guess who weighed in unsolicited & can't let it go...?
It's an Internet forum, not a private conversation - something else you don't understand?Edited by Eddie Strohacker on Friday 22 September 13:10
JagLover said:
The £20bn discussed is for a transition period to end 2020.
Which would have been our net contribution in any case had we remained in the EU.
Helps to put some of the media hysteria over this number into perspective.
A50 does not require us to pay a penny.Which would have been our net contribution in any case had we remained in the EU.
Helps to put some of the media hysteria over this number into perspective.
It's a bribe for a two year trade deal, and TV news is already talking about an end figure of £40bn.
Eddie Strohacker said:
Believing a remainer's outlook is 'Bizarre' is a handy illustration of how polarised the matter is. You're bizarre, no you are, no you are etc. etc.
I am genuinely taken aback that you think leaving the EU damages UK credibility as a liberal and progressive society. I don't think that any part of the UK's reputation is based on its membership of the EU.Eddie Strohacker said:
Interestingly you betray your view that I find so common amongst leavers when you talk about the EU as just some trading bloc as if that's all it is.
well that is what we voted on joining in the first place. Eddie Strohacker said:
It's so much more than that. It's a place where people move around & make lives.
as indeed they will continue to do after we leave - including Brits going to Europe, and Europeans coming to the UK. Eddie Strohacker said:
It's a bulwark against a truly grisly 20th century history, it's interdependence for the common good & if you can't see the problems with isolating the country from all of that, then I guess - apart from surmising you're not a French Nurse or a Spanish Teacher working here with kids, a home, roots then there's not much to be gained from arguing on. It's all just economics to you.
So we have to stay in order to stop the Germans kicking off again? Ok, I know you don't actually mean that, but really, what I think you are saying is that the only safe future for Europe will be for it to integrate more? (Presumably along the lines that Junker set out the other week?) If that option had been on the referendum ballot paper as the alternate to "Leave the EU", what do you think the leave majority would have risen to?
Breadvan72 said:
Can someone please remind me why it is good for business to erect a tariff barrier between the UK and a very large market?
It isn't a good idea to erect a tariff barrier between the UK and a very large market. As a member of the EU that's precisely what we do. We trade more outside the EU than we do inside it, yet we don't have the ability to organise our trading relationships with that increasingly more important outside the EU trading world. Not only do we hobble our ability to trade on better terms with the rest of the world, we pay a fee for the privilege, even if you ignore the extra costs of the customs union membership in terms of the trading outside the EU, on pure economic grounds for our trade inside the EU our fees to the EU don't make economic sense. The cost of exporting to the EU is 7% of the export value, yet the average of all tariffs applied is 4%, so we are paying 3% of our export values for nothing on economic terms when we trade with the EU as members of the customs union.
This is why we have to leave the customs union, because as a member we cant negotiate our own trade relationships, we are stuck with the relationship organised by the customs union, this often harms the UK's trading position because its catering for a large block with other requirements than our own. That is a model that doesn't fit the current world we live in, which is increasingly global.
What leaving the customs union allows is for us to set our own tariff regime under the WTO, then build bespoke trading relationships with countries that provide beneficial trading terms that improves the WTO base position. That is where the future growth is and that is how the UK will become more competitive.
The goal of the UK is to arrange a trade deal with the EU as one of the trade deals we will organise in the future alongside our WTO tariff regime. If the EU don't want that then so be it, we will carry on improving our competitiveness and look to other more competitive markets for our goods and services.
Eddie Strohacker said:
Suits me, Mr. twisty.
sidicks said:
I'm sure it does, but that's not how an Internet forum works (as already explained).
This is great. First you call for people to ignore me, then tell me ignoring me isn't how this works. I hitherto didn't believe you could be that stupid, now, thanks to you, I've had my mind changed for the first time by a Brexiteer.Eddie Strohacker said:
This is great. First you call for people to ignore me, then tell me ignoring me isn't how this works. I hitherto didn't believe you could be that stupid, now, thanks to you, I've had my mind changed for the first time by a Brexiteer.
Obviously the sarcasm went right over your head. No surprise there.Keep trying to pretend you are more intelligent though!
jsf said:
It isn't a good idea to erect a tariff barrier between the UK and a very large market. As a member of the EU that's precisely what we do. We trade more outside the EU than we do inside it, yet we don't have the ability to organise our trading relationships with that increasingly more important outside the EU trading world.
Not only do we hobble our ability to trade on better terms with the rest of the world, we pay a fee for the privilege, even if you ignore the extra costs of the customs union membership in terms of the trading outside the EU, on pure economic grounds for our trade inside the EU our fees to the EU don't make economic sense. The cost of exporting to the EU is 7% of the export value, yet the average of all tariffs applied is 4%, so we are paying 3% of our export values for nothing on economic terms when we trade with the EU as members of the customs union.
This is why we have to leave the customs union, because as a member we cant negotiate our own trade relationships, we are stuck with the relationship organised by the customs union, this often harms the UK's trading position because its catering for a large block with other requirements than our own. That is a model that doesn't fit the current world we live in, which is increasingly global.
What leaving the customs union allows is for us to set our own tariff regime under the WTO, then build bespoke trading relationships with countries that provide beneficial trading terms that improves the WTO base position. That is where the future growth is and that is how the UK will become more competitive.
The goal of the UK is to arrange a trade deal with the EU as one of the trade deals we will organise in the future alongside our WTO tariff regime. If the EU don't want that then so be it, we will carry on improving our competitiveness and look to other more competitive markets for our goods and services.
It remains to be seen what WTO tariffs the UK will adopt.Not only do we hobble our ability to trade on better terms with the rest of the world, we pay a fee for the privilege, even if you ignore the extra costs of the customs union membership in terms of the trading outside the EU, on pure economic grounds for our trade inside the EU our fees to the EU don't make economic sense. The cost of exporting to the EU is 7% of the export value, yet the average of all tariffs applied is 4%, so we are paying 3% of our export values for nothing on economic terms when we trade with the EU as members of the customs union.
This is why we have to leave the customs union, because as a member we cant negotiate our own trade relationships, we are stuck with the relationship organised by the customs union, this often harms the UK's trading position because its catering for a large block with other requirements than our own. That is a model that doesn't fit the current world we live in, which is increasingly global.
What leaving the customs union allows is for us to set our own tariff regime under the WTO, then build bespoke trading relationships with countries that provide beneficial trading terms that improves the WTO base position. That is where the future growth is and that is how the UK will become more competitive.
The goal of the UK is to arrange a trade deal with the EU as one of the trade deals we will organise in the future alongside our WTO tariff regime. If the EU don't want that then so be it, we will carry on improving our competitiveness and look to other more competitive markets for our goods and services.
It remains to be seen if the RoW will be willing to reduce their import tariffs via a trade agreement so that we can sell more competitively to them.
PurpleMoonlight said:
It remains to be seen what WTO tariffs the UK will adopt.
It remains to be seen if the RoW will be willing to reduce their import tariffs via a trade agreement so that we can sell more competitively to them.
Of course.It remains to be seen if the RoW will be willing to reduce their import tariffs via a trade agreement so that we can sell more competitively to them.
Based on everything I read, listen to, I expect the drive is towards a relaxing of UK tariff rates.
Based on everything I read, listen to, all the major trading nations want to talk about improving trading relationships.
Do you see things differently?
pgh said:
Of course it remains to be seen - we can't negotiate trade deals with other nations whilst we are a member of the EU.
Given the proliferation of trade deals between developed nations, do you agree that it would be unusual indeed if one of the world's top economies was unable to put such arrangements in place?
No.Given the proliferation of trade deals between developed nations, do you agree that it would be unusual indeed if one of the world's top economies was unable to put such arrangements in place?
Dr Jekyll said:
Unbelievable idiot on Sky News just now claiming the UK has gained benefits from EU membership. Examples being the rebate and being allowed to remain out of Schengen and the Euro.
I was watching that, the level of f
kwitery on that panel was unbearable, I changed channel.Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff