The economic consequences of Brexit (Vol 2)
Discussion
desolate said:
It's not anger, it's contempt.
anything to add to the discussion or do you just want to have a go at me?
Start new thread if I annoy you so much - the eddie v sidcks one went quite well.
I've no problem with you asking questions, its just a bit daft asking questions when you know the answer in order to create a 'you're wrong'moment,you do have a habit of doing it.anything to add to the discussion or do you just want to have a go at me?
Start new thread if I annoy you so much - the eddie v sidcks one went quite well.
I'll leave it at that.
don'tbesilly said:
Breadvan72 said:
Talking of endless questions, has the SantaBarbara drone been deactivated?
Looks that way, the Russians knew it had been rumbled, so they thought MK11 - James TiT might pass unnoticed.I don't think MK11 - James TiT will last too long
I wonder how many dornant profiles actuzlly exist......
I’d ask in WF but I’ll probably not get an answer
desolate said:
There has been some chat about James Dyson - I think on this thread but there are so many Brexit threads I lose track
Is it true that he said this in 2000?
"It's suicidal for the UK not to join the euro. Why should we go on exporting at a loss? We're facing unfair competition,'
One never knows what's truth or fiction these days!
Its a perfectly fair question, and an adult might even continue a conversation about it.Is it true that he said this in 2000?
"It's suicidal for the UK not to join the euro. Why should we go on exporting at a loss? We're facing unfair competition,'
One never knows what's truth or fiction these days!
I have wondered whether his motives are influenced by the fact that his hoover business, with product manufactured in Malaysia, stands post brexit to have either:
- no change to market access to the EU, as it is already outside
- either the same or possibly better access to the UK market if we get a better trade deal
This of course is a better deal in terms of him being a Malaysian exporter and his profits increase - but it may actually mean less money going to the UK taxpayer.
He is also starting an electric car business for 2020 isn't he? I see that he is on record: "Dyson has hinted that although Britain remains a “frontrunner” to build the car, it is more likely the vehicle will be manufactured in the Far East."
So he may have ambitions to see if he can benefit of different trade arrangements from those currently in the EU. Again his interests are not aligned with car manufacturers who actually manufacture in the UK. He could be aiming for a Minford nil tariff model, and now sees UK manufacturing as in decline having instigated just that outcome for his our UK plants.
///ajd said:
- no change to market access to the EU, as it is already outside
- either the same or possibly better access to the UK market if we get a better trade deal
This of course is a better deal in terms of him being a Malaysian exporter and his profits increase - but it may actually meanless money going to the UK taxpayer. cheaper vacuum cleaners for the UK taxpayer.
EFA- either the same or possibly better access to the UK market if we get a better trade deal
This of course is a better deal in terms of him being a Malaysian exporter and his profits increase - but it may actually mean
Dr Jekyll said:
///ajd said:
- no change to market access to the EU, as it is already outside
- either the same or possibly better access to the UK market if we get a better trade deal
This of course is a better deal in terms of him being a Malaysian exporter and his profits increase - but it may actually meanless money going to the UK taxpayer. cheaper vacuum cleaners for the UK taxpayer.
EFA- either the same or possibly better access to the UK market if we get a better trade deal
This of course is a better deal in terms of him being a Malaysian exporter and his profits increase - but it may actually mean
don'tbesilly said:
Breadvan72 said:
Talking of endless questions, has the SantaBarbara drone been deactivated?
Looks that way, the Russians knew it had been rumbled, so they thought MK11 - James TiT might pass unnoticed.I don't think MK11 - James TiT will last too long
///ajd said:
Its a perfectly fair question, and an adult might even continue a conversation about it.
I have wondered whether his motives are influenced by the fact that his hoover business, with product manufactured in Malaysia, stands post brexit to have either:
- no change to market access to the EU, as it is already outside
- either the same or possibly better access to the UK market if we get a better trade deal
This of course is a better deal in terms of him being a Malaysian exporter and his profits increase - but it may actually mean less money going to the UK taxpayer.
He is also starting an electric car business for 2020 isn't he? I see that he is on record: "Dyson has hinted that although Britain remains a “frontrunner” to build the car, it is more likely the vehicle will be manufactured in the Far East."
So he may have ambitions to see if he can benefit of different trade arrangements from those currently in the EU. Again his interests are not aligned with car manufacturers who actually manufacture in the UK. He could be aiming for a Minford nil tariff model, and now sees UK manufacturing as in decline having instigated just that outcome for his our UK plants.
Wow, you've inferred a hell of a lot from just a few bits of information.I have wondered whether his motives are influenced by the fact that his hoover business, with product manufactured in Malaysia, stands post brexit to have either:
- no change to market access to the EU, as it is already outside
- either the same or possibly better access to the UK market if we get a better trade deal
This of course is a better deal in terms of him being a Malaysian exporter and his profits increase - but it may actually mean less money going to the UK taxpayer.
He is also starting an electric car business for 2020 isn't he? I see that he is on record: "Dyson has hinted that although Britain remains a “frontrunner” to build the car, it is more likely the vehicle will be manufactured in the Far East."
So he may have ambitions to see if he can benefit of different trade arrangements from those currently in the EU. Again his interests are not aligned with car manufacturers who actually manufacture in the UK. He could be aiming for a Minford nil tariff model, and now sees UK manufacturing as in decline having instigated just that outcome for his our UK plants.
Dyson invests heavily in the UK, particularly in the high value research and design areas. He's become increasingly pragmatic about where stuff is made though, as his local area council made expansion of his factories extremely difficult (it seems some Brits don't actually want any of that nasty manufacturing stuff in their back yard). See: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/1805050.stm - It is a very sore point with him as he fought long and hard to try to keep manufacturing in the UK.
He's just bought an RAF base to house up to 3,000 high tech R & D workers, and is pouring £3 million a week into the development http://www.dysonmalmesbury.co.uk/
Unlike many of the other UK car manufacturers, the ownership of the company and the key generator of revenue is in the UK.
But, you're so keen to discredit anyone who might have a different viewpoint to yours, that you'd ignore all of that, wouldn't you?
Tuna said:
///ajd said:
Its a perfectly fair question, and an adult might even continue a conversation about it.
I have wondered whether his motives are influenced by the fact that his hoover business, with product manufactured in Malaysia, stands post brexit to have either:
- no change to market access to the EU, as it is already outside
- either the same or possibly better access to the UK market if we get a better trade deal
This of course is a better deal in terms of him being a Malaysian exporter and his profits increase - but it may actually mean less money going to the UK taxpayer.
He is also starting an electric car business for 2020 isn't he? I see that he is on record: "Dyson has hinted that although Britain remains a “frontrunner” to build the car, it is more likely the vehicle will be manufactured in the Far East."
So he may have ambitions to see if he can benefit of different trade arrangements from those currently in the EU. Again his interests are not aligned with car manufacturers who actually manufacture in the UK. He could be aiming for a Minford nil tariff model, and now sees UK manufacturing as in decline having instigated just that outcome for his our UK plants.
Wow, you've inferred a hell of a lot from just a few bits of information.I have wondered whether his motives are influenced by the fact that his hoover business, with product manufactured in Malaysia, stands post brexit to have either:
- no change to market access to the EU, as it is already outside
- either the same or possibly better access to the UK market if we get a better trade deal
This of course is a better deal in terms of him being a Malaysian exporter and his profits increase - but it may actually mean less money going to the UK taxpayer.
He is also starting an electric car business for 2020 isn't he? I see that he is on record: "Dyson has hinted that although Britain remains a “frontrunner” to build the car, it is more likely the vehicle will be manufactured in the Far East."
So he may have ambitions to see if he can benefit of different trade arrangements from those currently in the EU. Again his interests are not aligned with car manufacturers who actually manufacture in the UK. He could be aiming for a Minford nil tariff model, and now sees UK manufacturing as in decline having instigated just that outcome for his our UK plants.
Dyson invests heavily in the UK, particularly in the high value research and design areas. He's become increasingly pragmatic about where stuff is made though, as his local area council made expansion of his factories extremely difficult (it seems some Brits don't actually want any of that nasty manufacturing stuff in their back yard). See: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/1805050.stm - It is a very sore point with him as he fought long and hard to try to keep manufacturing in the UK.
He's just bought an RAF base to house up to 3,000 high tech R & D workers, and is pouring £3 million a week into the development http://www.dysonmalmesbury.co.uk/
Unlike many of the other UK car manufacturers, the ownership of the company and the key generator of revenue is in the UK.
But, you're so keen to discredit anyone who might have a different viewpoint to yours, that you'd ignore all of that, wouldn't you?
You can exchange views without the "you are this, you are so keen to do this". Dyson has invested in the UK, but why get so shirty at the mere suggestion that he may have an interest in brexit that may not align with UK manufacturing?
Honestly the screaming and hysterics at any suggestion whatsoever that brexit or one of its supporters may have motives that deserve wider scrutiny is very tiresome. There is no drama or wailing in my post is there?
Others have kept manufacturing in the UK, and companies like Aston have recently created new manufacturing facilities in the UK. At the end of the day he moved the manufacturing outside of the UK, and outside of the EU for that matter. There was ultimately one key reason he did this, and it is obvious he would want to deflect blame. That said I admire Dyson, he has done some fantastic things and is a great ambassador for engineering and innovation in the UK, and it is great that his R&D is here.
///ajd said:
Honestly the screaming and hysterics at any suggestion whatsoever that brexit or one of its supporters may have motives that deserve wider scrutiny is very tiresome. There is no drama or wailing in my post is there?
No, no drama. Don't get me wrong, I'm neither screaming or hysterical, just very frustrated with you that you so badly misrepresent a UK business to justify your position. It's not as if Dyson hasn't been the subject of news, documentaries and books that make his history and politics pretty clear.So as one of the real success stories in the UK in the last few years, it really annoys me to see people reading such nonsense into his motives.
Tuna said:
Wow, you've inferred a hell of a lot from just a few bits of information.
Dyson invests heavily in the UK, particularly in the high value research and design areas. He's become increasingly pragmatic about where stuff is made though, as his local area council made expansion of his factories extremely difficult (it seems some Brits don't actually want any of that nasty manufacturing stuff in their back yard). See: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/1805050.stm - It is a very sore point with him as he fought long and hard to try to keep manufacturing in the UK.
He's just bought an RAF base to house up to 3,000 high tech R & D workers, and is pouring £3 million a week into the development http://www.dysonmalmesbury.co.uk/
Unlike many of the other UK car manufacturers, the ownership of the company and the key generator of revenue is in the UK.
But, you're so keen to discredit anyone who might have a different viewpoint to yours, that you'd ignore all of that, wouldn't you?
Never ceases to surprise one, the Dyson love when his last intervention essentially boiles down to a plea tpo government to abolish corporation tax & workers rights. It's rich of certain posters to accuse others of misrepresentation when Dyson is discussed so one sidedly. Too much partisanship, to little cui bono curiosity.Dyson invests heavily in the UK, particularly in the high value research and design areas. He's become increasingly pragmatic about where stuff is made though, as his local area council made expansion of his factories extremely difficult (it seems some Brits don't actually want any of that nasty manufacturing stuff in their back yard). See: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/1805050.stm - It is a very sore point with him as he fought long and hard to try to keep manufacturing in the UK.
He's just bought an RAF base to house up to 3,000 high tech R & D workers, and is pouring £3 million a week into the development http://www.dysonmalmesbury.co.uk/
Unlike many of the other UK car manufacturers, the ownership of the company and the key generator of revenue is in the UK.
But, you're so keen to discredit anyone who might have a different viewpoint to yours, that you'd ignore all of that, wouldn't you?
///ajd said:
Others have kept manufacturing in the UK, and companies like Aston have recently created new manufacturing facilities in the UK. At the end of the day he moved the manufacturing outside of the UK, and outside of the EU for that matter. There was ultimately one key reason he did this, and it is obvious he would want to deflect blame. That said I admire Dyson, he has done some fantastic things and is a great ambassador for engineering and innovation in the UK, and it is great that his R&D is here.
I admire Dyson too but for different reasons. Mr Dyson's marketing machine is persuasive ///ajd ; the trumpeting of the R&D and innovation is all part of the marketing strategy "4 years, 103 engineers and £50 million to develop my new Supersonic hairdryer. That'll be £299 please." Mr Dyson must have made a lot of duff prototypes during the design development or he pays his engineers over £120,000 PA.Bladeless fans and digital motors are not new but Dyson has developed them well and his marketing team convince people they are worth the price premium.
Its great that the R&D is here, I'm looking forward to see the fruits of this venture https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/nov/04... I'm sure we'll see some innovation in the future.
I'll admire him more if he brings production back; not holding my breath though.
Edited by Crackie on Saturday 18th November 09:18
Crackie said:
///ajd said:
Others have kept manufacturing in the UK, and companies like Aston have recently created new manufacturing facilities in the UK. At the end of the day he moved the manufacturing outside of the UK, and outside of the EU for that matter. There was ultimately one key reason he did this, and it is obvious he would want to deflect blame. That said I admire Dyson, he has done some fantastic things and is a great ambassador for engineering and innovation in the UK, and it is great that his R&D is here.
I admire Dyson too but for different reasons. Mr Dyson's marketing machine is persuasive ///ajd.; The championing of R&D and innovation is part of the marketing strategy "4 years, 103 engineers and £50 million to develop my new Supersonic hairdryer. That'll be £299 please."Mr Dyson must have made a lot of duff prototypes during the design phase or he pays his engineers £120,000 PA.
Bladeless fans and digital motors are not new but Dyson has developed them well and his marketing team convince people they are fantastic.
Its great that the R&D is here, I'm looking forward to see the fruits of this venture https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/nov/04... I'm sure the innovation will come.
Edited by Crackie on Saturday 18th November 09:08
Tuna said:
But, you're so keen to discredit anyone who might have a different viewpoint to yours, that you'd ignore all of that, wouldn't you?
Hmm-that point very much goes both ways on here.You only have to look at the way the news from Aston and Honda this week was treated on the various brexit threads by the leavers to see that.
Crackie said:
///ajd said:
Others have kept manufacturing in the UK, and companies like Aston have recently created new manufacturing facilities in the UK. At the end of the day he moved the manufacturing outside of the UK, and outside of the EU for that matter. There was ultimately one key reason he did this, and it is obvious he would want to deflect blame. That said I admire Dyson, he has done some fantastic things and is a great ambassador for engineering and innovation in the UK, and it is great that his R&D is here.
I admire Dyson too but for different reasons. Mr Dyson's marketing machine is persuasive ///ajd ; the trumpeting of the R&D and innovation is all part of the marketing strategy "4 years, 103 engineers and £50 million to develop my new Supersonic hairdryer. That'll be £299 please." Mr Dyson must have made a lot of duff prototypes during the design development or he pays his engineers over £120,000 PA.Bladeless fans and digital motors are not new but Dyson has developed them well and his marketing team convince people they are worth the price premium.
Its great that the R&D is here, I'm looking forward to see the fruits of this venture https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/nov/04... I'm sure we'll see some innovation in the future.
I'll admire him more if he brings production back; not holding my breath though.
Edited by Crackie on Saturday 18th November 09:18
Pan Pan Pan said:
Apparently Mr Dyson has acquired a disused RAF airfield for the purpose of constructing a new electric car, so effectively he is bringing some of his production back to the UK.
I think he bought Hullavington to house/expand his R&D to underpin projects such as his car. We'll have to see if production is on the cards, but it looks like he is implying he might (for PR purposes) whilst probably planning to do that offshore.
I have no real gripe with his model to be honest given the environment he is working in. It is interesting that he said joining the Euro was important to his exports from the UK back in the day.
He is keeping the high skill high pay R&D jobs in the UK and farming out the low skill manufacture jobs. I don't think it is unreasonable to look at his brexit position with that in mind.
From a selfish point of view he is only exporting jobs that would be of no interest to me as an engineer, they are still in the UK. But looking more widely, there is a case to encourage all our engineering and manufacturing jobs - and a Minford type Brexit (which seems to align to Dyson) won't do that.
Finally I also think he deserves credit for bringing real innovation to bear with his cyclonic hoover - this was a genuinely new, he brought it to market and did so without going bust which is rare for what could be argued to be a revolutionary change in product design. History is littered with brilliant new inventions that cripple the original innovator.
PS Just realised - does this mean M4 Karting is on borrowed time?
Edited by ///ajd on Saturday 18th November 11:41
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