The economic consequences of Brexit (Vol 2)
Discussion
ClaphamGT3 said:
Disastrous said:
Greg66 said:
Her Majesty's inquiry in 2008 was "why didn't we see this coming?"
I can see Brexit coming a mile off. Look! It's right there.
Davis knows the projections are completely unpalatable. Simple as that. That's why when he says "they have all proven wrong" he is hoping against hope that that will be true this time as well.
Nothing like blind, groundless optimism to get us through Brexit eh?
It's hard to believe he was once a journeyman politician. Oh, wait...
Are you sure you aren't just talking the country down, Gregg? AIUI, all we need to do is hum the Dambusters Theme and tell them we won't pay a bloody penny and the EU will instantly go bust whilst we profit eternally. If that fails, we can always fight with the US on twitter and show them how much we don't need them either, right?I can see Brexit coming a mile off. Look! It's right there.
Davis knows the projections are completely unpalatable. Simple as that. That's why when he says "they have all proven wrong" he is hoping against hope that that will be true this time as well.
Nothing like blind, groundless optimism to get us through Brexit eh?
It's hard to believe he was once a journeyman politician. Oh, wait...
>Salutes<
I am going to start a petition on the World Wide Web and the Daily Express to reintroduce proper sized white five pound notes. And you can f
k OFF with your bloody metric system too. Shillings and ounces here. >Flicks V sign in the general direction of the east<
Greg66 said:
I’ll have you “euro-boys” know that I have already worn out two blue crayons re-colouring my passport, AND i have my eye on an Allegro Vanden Plas no less at the scrappers, complete with one working fold down table in the rear.
I am going to start a petition on the World Wide Web and the Daily Express to reintroduce proper sized white five pound notes. And you can fk OFF with your bloody metric system too. Shillings and ounces here.
>Flicks V sign in the general direction of the east<
I drive a Japanese piece of kit, none of this German sI am going to start a petition on the World Wide Web and the Daily Express to reintroduce proper sized white five pound notes. And you can f
k OFF with your bloody metric system too. Shillings and ounces here. >Flicks V sign in the general direction of the east<
te. 
What is anyone going to do with any financial projections now? Before the Brexit vote they could have made a difference but that is over and done with. Davis et al have to do the best they can with the hand they have been dealt with and providing transparent information up front to the 'other side' of, potentially, where you consider yourself to be strong and weak is not helpful in any negotiation.
In essence the deal boundaries are FTA or WTO with anything in between being possible. It is obvious where the high tariffs are and what is important to UK (and EU) trade so having some erroneous forensic information on these areas is going to change what exactly?
In essence the deal boundaries are FTA or WTO with anything in between being possible. It is obvious where the high tariffs are and what is important to UK (and EU) trade so having some erroneous forensic information on these areas is going to change what exactly?
PurpleMoonlight said:
Talking of paradigm shifts, Daily Mail comments are starting to look increasingly pro Remain. A serious question for any serious minded Leavers (those who treat Leave as a religious belief need not bother to reply). Given what we now know, isn't it time to think again?
Breadvan72 said:
A serious question for any serious minded Leavers (those who treat Leave as a religious belief need not bother to reply). Given what we now know, isn't it time to think again?
Breadvan72 said:
PurpleMoonlight said:
Talking of paradigm shifts, Daily Mail comments are starting to look increasingly pro Remain. A serious question for any serious minded Leavers (those who treat Leave as a religious belief need not bother to reply). Given what we now know, isn't it time to think again?
You literally cannot reason with such a position.
Breadvan72 said:
PurpleMoonlight said:
Talking of paradigm shifts, Daily Mail comments are starting to look increasingly pro Remain. A serious question for any serious minded Leavers (those who treat Leave as a religious belief need not bother to reply). Given what we now know, isn't it time to think again?
Breadvan72 said:
Talking of paradigm shifts, Daily Mail comments are starting to look increasingly pro Remain.
A serious question for any serious minded Leavers (those who treat Leave as a religious belief need not bother to reply). Given what we now know, isn't it time to think again?
I don't think so, it was inevitable the negotiations would involve a high degree of brinkmanship, and some difficult moments. You only have to look at the EU history of negotiations to see that, eg Greece bailout or in Italy where the EU brought down the government and replaced the Prime Minister with a placeman. A serious question for any serious minded Leavers (those who treat Leave as a religious belief need not bother to reply). Given what we now know, isn't it time to think again?
The long term future of the EU is ever closer integration, things that I can't support, socialising debt, an EU Army, harmonising tax regimes and such like. Never mind the fundamental legal differences and overruling of what should in my opinion be a sovereign parliament.
There will inevitably be an economic price for the UK outside of the EU, but I think it can be minimised, and I believe in time we will adjust and make the best of the opportunities.
Clearly I would be more comfortable if I thought we had some visionary leadership in the UK Government Executive, but that seems to be in short supply across all parties at the moment.
Breadvan72 said:
A serious question for any serious minded Leavers (those who treat Leave as a religious belief need not bother to reply). Given what we now know, isn't it time to think again?
To be honest I'm actually more resolutely pro-leave than I was based on the negotiations and actions of some since the referendum I figured the EU would make is as difficult and as expensive as possible to leave and that it would have a dramatic impact on our economy, I knew it would be messy but hoped that its worthwhile in the end.
I still firmly believe that some of the EU policies will financially cripple the wealthier countries in time and was firmly against further political integration with Europe which is the way I could see the EU heading. It was clear from 2011 that that the EU was unwilling to consider British concerns. The common market is a great idea and worked for all but I don't want to be part of a Federal Europe
I am surprised and disappointed in some of our own politicians revelling in the disruption and damage they are causing the UK, some want things to be as destructive as possible to prove that they were right to remain.
Of course the EU has other agendas, they need to make it as tough as possible so that no-one else leaves but with any divorce the messier it is the richer the lawyers get and no-one really benefits. The EU never thought much of the UK before Brexit and it would be naive to think that that will change
Just as the media stirred up panic and hyperbole in the lead up to the referendum, so they have continued to do throughout the Brexit negotiation process. It did not help (either side) then and it does not help now.
It seems even 'intelligent remainers' are, in fact, hostage to subjective journalism and spin, from the same sources that told them the UK would never vote to leave, then that Brexit would never happen - might be reversed even. History repeating.
It seems even 'intelligent remainers' are, in fact, hostage to subjective journalism and spin, from the same sources that told them the UK would never vote to leave, then that Brexit would never happen - might be reversed even. History repeating.
Digga said:
Just as the media stirred up panic and hyperbole in the lead up to the referendum, so they have continued to do throughout the Brexit negotiation process. It did not help (either side) then and it does not help now.
It seems even 'intelligent remainers' are, in fact, hostage to subjective journalism and spin, from the same sources that told them the UK would never vote to leave, then that Brexit would never happen - might be reversed even. History repeating.
Davis' absolutely abhorrent responses yesterday was hyperbole? It seems even 'intelligent remainers' are, in fact, hostage to subjective journalism and spin, from the same sources that told them the UK would never vote to leave, then that Brexit would never happen - might be reversed even. History repeating.
May trying to agree an Ireland deal without the DUP and having to come back with her tail between her legs was hyperbole?
What news do you actually believe? Both were featured on every single news source.
My experience is that most Brexiteers have actually hardened their position as the scale of EU intransigence becomes ever clearer.
Its now more apparent than ever that the EU are moving in totally different directions, the EU moving steadily into increased federalism with all that entails ( if they can control what is now a north / south economic split which is getting worse each year) whilst the UK has over many years put distance between itself and those pushing for a federal EU.
Will the EU change its direction of travel? No. Has it ever changed its direction of travel ? No.
Remainers seem to think that if only the vote could be reversed all would be right again and we could get back to where we where. That is never going to be possible. The EU has moved from its pre Brexit position, and free from the drag of the UK's inertia towards further intergration, the move towards an ever more intergrated and federalised EU is accelerating.
The Remainers hope is that the size of the Brexit divorce bill, which itself only confirms the belief that the UK is nothing more than a cash cow to the EU, will frighten and scare the Leavers into somehow changing their mind. It actually does the complete opposite.
It hardens their resolve.
How many relationships, marriages etc with one party having decided to split up as a result of irreconcilable differences, then do a complete about face when the size of the divorce bill comes through, and go on the be happy, healthy, positive and long-lasting. Fear or desperation of any kind is never a good reason to stay in an unhappy, abusive or unhealthy relationship.
Its also apparent, and has been stated by many including the German Ambassador, that the UK will never get a good deal as the conditions of exit will be set so high as to discourage other EU members from leaving. If membership of the club confers such benefits on nett payers, why do they have to be bullied into staying? The benefits should be more than apparent shouldn't they?
If Brexiteers can be accused of wanting to push the clock back to days of Empire, warm beer, cricket on the green and foreigners knowing their place, Remainers too have their rose tinted views of an EEC which no longer exists. One of cooperation, free and fair markets, and economic progress for all, which has been replaced by a federalist dogma that only serves to make the stronger countries even more so.
Cheers,
Tony
Its now more apparent than ever that the EU are moving in totally different directions, the EU moving steadily into increased federalism with all that entails ( if they can control what is now a north / south economic split which is getting worse each year) whilst the UK has over many years put distance between itself and those pushing for a federal EU.
Will the EU change its direction of travel? No. Has it ever changed its direction of travel ? No.
Remainers seem to think that if only the vote could be reversed all would be right again and we could get back to where we where. That is never going to be possible. The EU has moved from its pre Brexit position, and free from the drag of the UK's inertia towards further intergration, the move towards an ever more intergrated and federalised EU is accelerating.
The Remainers hope is that the size of the Brexit divorce bill, which itself only confirms the belief that the UK is nothing more than a cash cow to the EU, will frighten and scare the Leavers into somehow changing their mind. It actually does the complete opposite.
It hardens their resolve.
How many relationships, marriages etc with one party having decided to split up as a result of irreconcilable differences, then do a complete about face when the size of the divorce bill comes through, and go on the be happy, healthy, positive and long-lasting. Fear or desperation of any kind is never a good reason to stay in an unhappy, abusive or unhealthy relationship.
Its also apparent, and has been stated by many including the German Ambassador, that the UK will never get a good deal as the conditions of exit will be set so high as to discourage other EU members from leaving. If membership of the club confers such benefits on nett payers, why do they have to be bullied into staying? The benefits should be more than apparent shouldn't they?
If Brexiteers can be accused of wanting to push the clock back to days of Empire, warm beer, cricket on the green and foreigners knowing their place, Remainers too have their rose tinted views of an EEC which no longer exists. One of cooperation, free and fair markets, and economic progress for all, which has been replaced by a federalist dogma that only serves to make the stronger countries even more so.
Cheers,
Tony
I don't understand why people are judging the state of negotiations, and the outcome for that matter, based on the grandstanding and childish name calling that goes on in our parliament. I think (or at least hope) the actual negotiations are being carried out in a calmer manner behind closed doors. I have some confidence in Tim Barrow who appears to be well qualified for the task, and a pretty unflappable character
Camoradi said:
I don't understand why people are judging the state of negotiations, and the outcome for that matter, based on the grandstanding and childish name calling that goes on in our parliament. I think (or at least hope) the actual negotiations are being carried out in a calmer manner behind closed doors.
Let's face it, the negotiations are going as well in parliament as the conversations on PH Brexit threads are going.The Uk is getting no attention from its own government on other important issues and it will stay that way for a long time.
Unfortunately, that's the will of the people for you.
Breadvan72 said:
Talking of paradigm shifts, Daily Mail comments are starting to look increasingly pro Remain.
A serious question for any serious minded Leavers (those who treat Leave as a religious belief need not bother to reply). Given what we now know, isn't it time to think again?
Not everything can be 'monified' (I remember someone saying that here some time ago!). Some Leavers have morals, principles, aspirations and visions wider and higher than just the short term financials. They have said so many times but narrow minded/thinking Remainers have consistently discarded such thoughts out of hand.A serious question for any serious minded Leavers (those who treat Leave as a religious belief need not bother to reply). Given what we now know, isn't it time to think again?
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