Can PH solve the missing Honington airman?
Discussion
Disastrous said:
La Liga said:
Disastrous said:
Literally everybody on the internet, with only scant knowlegde of the facts, said something along the lines of "If the bin said 11kg then it's a mistake somewhere - he's 100% in the tip" and only the Police seemed to think it wasn't worth even a quick scout round, just to double check.
A 'quick scout round' to look for a possibly incinerated, buried body? That sounds a good practical approach that'll yield a high level of search confidence.
As I say, it may be that it should have been searched earlier given the circumstances, information referenced against search training and tactics and major incident training and tactics.
Either way, I know you don't know.
DamienB said:
La Liga said:
You don't know what you're talking about.
Aye you're right, the coppers here have done a fantastic job of the most basics of detection, hats off to them for their utterly bloody amazing work. I mean, truly, absolutely incredible stuff. DamienB said:
The sheer level of ineptitude by the coppers in this case is, sadly, exactly what I expect from them.
How anybody of sound mind would take the evidence of any kind of sensor - or as it turns out, someone having written down the output of a sensor - as gospel and not bother searching regardless, particularly given the evidence of the mobile phone signals, is just stunningly, overwhelmingly incompetent.
The issue is the police can only go on what they are told. If someones saying its accurate enough then the police have to accept it and try and move the investigation on. How anybody of sound mind would take the evidence of any kind of sensor - or as it turns out, someone having written down the output of a sensor - as gospel and not bother searching regardless, particularly given the evidence of the mobile phone signals, is just stunningly, overwhelmingly incompetent.
The bin company know their kit better than the police do so your comments about them being incompetent are a bit unnecessary.
La Liga said:
Disastrous said:
La Liga said:
Disastrous said:
Literally everybody on the internet, with only scant knowlegde of the facts, said something along the lines of "If the bin said 11kg then it's a mistake somewhere - he's 100% in the tip" and only the Police seemed to think it wasn't worth even a quick scout round, just to double check.
A 'quick scout round' to look for a possibly incinerated, buried body? That sounds a good practical approach that'll yield a high level of search confidence.
As I say, it may be that it should have been searched earlier given the circumstances, information referenced against search training and tactics and major incident training and tactics.
Either way, I know you don't know.
You're quite right - it's been handled most deftly by all involved.
The thing is, I do know. And so does everyone else. You don't need all the facts to see the most obvious answer. Why do you feel the need to defend the investigation btw?
Unless you're involved with it in some way (are you a Policeman?) then what's to gain?
When the body is found in the landfill the fallout from this will be massive.
It is completely f
king ludicrous to say a bin lorry had 11 Kilos of weight on it
FFS I send heavier fking parcels. Why the hell it wasn't seriously questioned at that time beats me. This is a major complete fk up and no amount of excuses will cover it. It really is a total fk up and heads must surely roll. It makes you wonder if some detectives simply cat detect or question or even think to question
It is completely f
king ludicrous to say a bin lorry had 11 Kilos of weight on itFFS I send heavier f
king parcels. Why the hell it wasn't seriously questioned at that time beats me. This is a major complete fk up and no amount of excuses will cover it. It really is a total fk up and heads must surely roll. It makes you wonder if some detectives simply cat detect or question or even think to questionGreendubber said:
The issue is the police can only go on what they are told. If someones saying its accurate enough then the police have to accept it and try and move the investigation on.
The bin company know their kit better than the police do so your comments about them being incompetent are a bit unnecessary.
The Police should accept NO information unless and until its independently verified. Someone could be manipulating the figures for their own ends - ie, a cover up of some kind.The bin company know their kit better than the police do so your comments about them being incompetent are a bit unnecessary.
Disastrous said:
You're quite right - it's been handled most deftly by all involved.Disastrous said:
The thing is, I do know. And so does everyone else. You don't need all the facts to see the most obvious answer.
No, you think you do. Overconfidence and hindsight bias lead to you think you're in a position to draw a conclusion when in fact you really have little to no idea as to the things I mentioned. Disastrous said:
Why do you feel the need to defend the investigation btw?
Where have I defended it? If you read more closely I've said twice it's perfectly possible it was wrong not to search it earlier. I'm defending rational thinking and the fact people fail to recognise when they're drawing conclusions on too little information in which to do so.
TTmonkey said:
The Police should accept NO information unless and until its independently verified. Someone could be manipulating the figures for their own ends - ie, a cover up of some kind.
That's pretty obviously not always possible. techiedave said:
When the body is found in the landfill the fallout from this will be massive.
It probably won't. techiedave said:
It is completely fking ludicrous to say a bin lorry had 11 Kilos of weight on it
FFS I send heavier fking parcels. Why the hell it wasn't seriously questioned at that time beats me. This is a major complete fk up and no amount of excuses will cover it. It really is a total fk up and heads must surely roll. It makes you wonder if some detectives simply cat detect or question or even think to question
This is the type of flawed external thinking which creates a defensive culture in an organisation under scrutiny. king ludicrous to say a bin lorry had 11 Kilos of weight on itFFS I send heavier f
king parcels. Why the hell it wasn't seriously questioned at that time beats me. This is a major complete fk up and no amount of excuses will cover it. It really is a total fk up and heads must surely roll. It makes you wonder if some detectives simply cat detect or question or even think to questionI appreciate that people climb into bins to keep warm, but I still find it difficult to believe that Corrie voluntarily got into the bin having slept in a doorway for two hours previously, and that he obviously cared about his appearance (Ralph Lauren shirt/white jeans etc). He also had his car nearby (albeit a 2 seater), and although he would be committing a crime by sleeping in it, it didn't stop him earlier in the evening when he was drinking in it.
Like others I also find it difficult that the Police didn't spend more time at the start looking at the possibility that the weight was incorrect, especially as the other means of leaving the area were so limited, but I reserve judgment until all the facts are out in the open.
Like others I also find it difficult that the Police didn't spend more time at the start looking at the possibility that the weight was incorrect, especially as the other means of leaving the area were so limited, but I reserve judgment until all the facts are out in the open.
LaLiga a lot of the time I have regard and respect for you. This isn't one of them. Sorry pal your just on a different level. Good luck and you can reply and have the last word between us. But genuinely if you think the Police should not have thought 11 kilos bit odd not right lets get onto this now put pressure on see proof then your just not getting it.
I don't think its my thinking that's flawed I think its your disrespect shown to others that is. Good luck and goodbye I'm out
I don't think its my thinking that's flawed I think its your disrespect shown to others that is. Good luck and goodbye I'm out
techiedave said:
LaLiga a lot of the time I have regard and respect for you. This isn't one of them. Sorry pal your just on a different level. Good luck and you can reply and have the last word between us. But genuinely if you think the Police should not have thought 11 kilos bit odd not right lets get onto this now put pressure on see proof then your just not getting it.
I don't think its my thinking that's flawed I think its your disrespect shown to others that is. Good luck and goodbye I'm out
It's not about having the last word, it's about the fact that you think 'heads should roll' without being in any position to make such demands. Creating an environment of blame and punishment creates a defensive, risk-averse culture. The last thing we need from our emergency services. I don't think its my thinking that's flawed I think its your disrespect shown to others that is. Good luck and goodbye I'm out
The police aren't experts on bin loads. It's the waste companies who are. Are 11 KG loads unheard of? Is it so atypical as to stand out a mile? Lots of questions someone would need to know before jumping to conclusions.
I guess you've now all seen that the local police are confident the body is now going to be in the landfill
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-suffolk-39209...
Otherwise he's Lord Lucan
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-suffolk-39209...
Otherwise he's Lord Lucan
La Liga said:
Disastrous said:
You're quite right - it's been handled most deftly by all involved.Disastrous said:
The thing is, I do know. And so does everyone else. You don't need all the facts to see the most obvious answer.
No, you think you do. Overconfidence and hindsight bias lead to you think you're in a position to draw a conclusion when in fact you really have little to no idea as to the things I mentioned. Disastrous said:
Why do you feel the need to defend the investigation btw?
Where have I defended it? If you read more closely I've said twice it's perfectly possible it was wrong not to search it earlier. I'm defending rational thinking and the fact people fail to recognise when they're drawing conclusions on too little information in which to do so.
TTmonkey said:
The Police should accept NO information unless and until its independently verified. Someone could be manipulating the figures for their own ends - ie, a cover up of some kind.
That's pretty obviously not always possible. techiedave said:
When the body is found in the landfill the fallout from this will be massive.
It probably won't. techiedave said:
It is completely fking ludicrous to say a bin lorry had 11 Kilos of weight on it
FFS I send heavier fking parcels. Why the hell it wasn't seriously questioned at that time beats me. This is a major complete fk up and no amount of excuses will cover it. It really is a total fk up and heads must surely roll. It makes you wonder if some detectives simply cat detect or question or even think to question
This is the type of flawed external thinking which creates a defensive culture in an organisation under scrutiny. king ludicrous to say a bin lorry had 11 Kilos of weight on itFFS I send heavier f
king parcels. Why the hell it wasn't seriously questioned at that time beats me. This is a major complete fk up and no amount of excuses will cover it. It really is a total fk up and heads must surely roll. It makes you wonder if some detectives simply cat detect or question or even think to questionks.1). It's not hindsight when f
king EVRYBODY said it beforehand.2). If EVERYBODY thinks you should have done something, then you should have.
3). You are defending it by disallowing anyone to criticise how the investigation has been handled.
Frankly, the facts are irrelevant here. There w only ever one likely outcome and they should have checked the quoted 11kg more robustly.
Common sense was all that was needed here. Not procedure, not more information. Just common sense.
I'm done - feel free to have the last word.
TTmonkey said:
Greendubber said:
The issue is the police can only go on what they are told. If someones saying its accurate enough then the police have to accept it and try and move the investigation on.
The bin company know their kit better than the police do so your comments about them being incompetent are a bit unnecessary.
The Police should accept NO information unless and until its independently verified. Someone could be manipulating the figures for their own ends - ie, a cover up of some kind.The bin company know their kit better than the police do so your comments about them being incompetent are a bit unnecessary.
La Liga said:
consider it better not to reply than have to resort to sarcasm and misrepresentation when being shown up.
No doubt you'd consider it better to have a cup of tea rather than do any investigating, doesn't make either consideration a good one.Greendubber said:
The issue is the police can only go on what they are told.
Come off it!"I didn't do it officer"
"Oh alright, on your way then"
INVESTIGATE.
DamienB said:
La Liga said:
consider it better not to reply than have to resort to sarcasm and misrepresentation when being shown up.
No doubt you'd consider it better to have a cup of tea rather than do any investigating, doesn't make either consideration a good one.Greendubber said:
The issue is the police can only go on what they are told.
Come off it!"I didn't do it officer"
"Oh alright, on your way then"
INVESTIGATE.
It was investigated, the police were told it wasnt possible for him to be in the bin, by people who do the job day in, day out. Should they discount every bit of evidence, ever? No because that's simply not practical.
Edited by Greendubber on Wednesday 8th March 19:55
condor said:
A look back at page 1 of this thread ( 28 December 2016 ) and the first few posts are all saying he's likely to be in the bin!
And I'm sure the police thought similar but if the bin company are adamant their data is correct what can you do? Search the entire landfill? Never ever going to happen.
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