Climate change - the POLITICAL debate. Vol 4
Discussion
some interesting numbers from the american energy generation sector . https://wattsupwiththat.com/2017/04/25/nuclear-pow...
Highlighted over at Climate Depot:
Flashback to 2007: Exercise Causes Global Warming - Walking to the Shops ‘Damages Planet More Than Going By Car' - "Walking does more than driving to cause global warming, a leading environmentalist has calculated.
But wait! 2017 Study in Nature: 21 climate models find climate change ‘may increase net recreational physical activity in U.S.’ by 2099. Science says so.
What a dilemma! What a double dip crock of excrement.
Flashback to 2007: Exercise Causes Global Warming - Walking to the Shops ‘Damages Planet More Than Going By Car' - "Walking does more than driving to cause global warming, a leading environmentalist has calculated.
But wait! 2017 Study in Nature: 21 climate models find climate change ‘may increase net recreational physical activity in U.S.’ by 2099. Science says so.
What a dilemma! What a double dip crock of excrement.
The Beebs CC puff piece today
Climate change could transform gardens
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-3971...
Dr Eleanor Webster, who coordinated the RHS report, told the BBC: "The key thing is that the south of England is going to be hotter and drier throughout the year with some heavy rain showers and then the north of England is going to be certainly milder but it is also going to be wetter in the summer and in the winter.
"The south of England is going to mainly be about water conservation and the north of England is going to be about managing a wet and warm environment."
Note the word COULD in the title. This also generated a few slots on BBC breakfast show, where the RHS bloke spouted the usual complete b
ks, including all the WEATHER variations, which has sod all to do with CLIMATE. And the whole story was full of ‘could’, might’, possibly’ and so on. The BBC is totally out of order with their CC support/belief.
Climate change could transform gardens
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-3971...
Dr Eleanor Webster, who coordinated the RHS report, told the BBC: "The key thing is that the south of England is going to be hotter and drier throughout the year with some heavy rain showers and then the north of England is going to be certainly milder but it is also going to be wetter in the summer and in the winter.
"The south of England is going to mainly be about water conservation and the north of England is going to be about managing a wet and warm environment."
Note the word COULD in the title. This also generated a few slots on BBC breakfast show, where the RHS bloke spouted the usual complete b
ks, including all the WEATHER variations, which has sod all to do with CLIMATE. And the whole story was full of ‘could’, might’, possibly’ and so on. The BBC is totally out of order with their CC support/belief.dickymint said:
OMG just been advised on ITV, Save Money:Good Food to put your leftover salad into a plastic bag then blow into it - the CO2 keeps it fresh!! 
Sorry if this should have been posted in the Science thread
Sort of, although that is the 2nd order effect.Sorry if this should have been posted in the Science thread
Isn't it oxygen content that contributes to decay, as in oxidation?
Outbreaths contain less oxygen. The oxygen is replaced by CO2.
IIRC, IANAS (I am not a scientist
)robinessex said:
Climate change could transform gardens
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-3971...
They tried all this 10 years ago. Loads of programs and articles on how to have a Mediterranean garden. I distinctly remember the Cactus garden article for when the droughts came (this still existed last time I looked for it but has now vanished).http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-3971...
Of course this was just before some of the wettest summers for ages.
Same as all the new insect and butterfly species that were going to take over the UK because of a 0.01 increase in temp.
They're utterly shameless in pushing this crap.
Paddy_N_Murphy said:
FWIW I am told regarding the 'German Subsidy free' sites:
the Dong award is bona fida and based on leverage of the financial backers and supply chain partners, (with Dong taking the hit if the market changes / their sums don't add up before the rustle of Tim foil shouts that taxpayers will have to bail it out, pensioners freeze etc)
The ENBW bid is a little bit more reliant on the long term selling the electricity to several German industrial companies that has agreed to a lightly adjusted number above market rate so as to be associated with renewables. So - still subsidy free from the state, but propped up to a single digit percent by some large volume purchasers from ENBW.
Only what I am told ...
And the grid connections and substations mentioned in the article posted last week?the Dong award is bona fida and based on leverage of the financial backers and supply chain partners, (with Dong taking the hit if the market changes / their sums don't add up before the rustle of Tim foil shouts that taxpayers will have to bail it out, pensioners freeze etc)
The ENBW bid is a little bit more reliant on the long term selling the electricity to several German industrial companies that has agreed to a lightly adjusted number above market rate so as to be associated with renewables. So - still subsidy free from the state, but propped up to a single digit percent by some large volume purchasers from ENBW.
Only what I am told ...
This part
"Successful projects are entitled not only to funding under the Renewable Energy Sources Act, but also to grid connection – financed through the network charges by the electricity consumers "
from here
http://www.offshorewind.biz/2017/04/13/germany-acc...
And before you say "well all powerstations need grid connections", I should point out that Germany is very different to the UK WRT a national grid I.E. it doesn't really have one.
robinessex said:
The Beebs CC puff piece today
Climate change could transform gardens
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-3971...
Dr Eleanor Webster, who coordinated the RHS report, told the BBC: "The key thing is that the south of England is going to be hotter and drier throughout the year with some heavy rain showers and then the north of England is going to be certainly milder but it is also going to be wetter in the summer and in the winter.
"The south of England is going to mainly be about water conservation and the north of England is going to be about managing a wet and warm environment."
Note the word COULD in the title. This also generated a few slots on BBC breakfast show, where the RHS bloke spouted the usual complete bks, including all the WEATHER variations, which has sod all to do with CLIMATE. And the whole story was full of ‘could’, might’, possibly’ and so on. The BBC is totally out of order with their CC support/belief.
Repeated on the Beebs 1:00 pm news. It's not news really of course.Climate change could transform gardens
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-3971...
Dr Eleanor Webster, who coordinated the RHS report, told the BBC: "The key thing is that the south of England is going to be hotter and drier throughout the year with some heavy rain showers and then the north of England is going to be certainly milder but it is also going to be wetter in the summer and in the winter.
"The south of England is going to mainly be about water conservation and the north of England is going to be about managing a wet and warm environment."
Note the word COULD in the title. This also generated a few slots on BBC breakfast show, where the RHS bloke spouted the usual complete b
ks, including all the WEATHER variations, which has sod all to do with CLIMATE. And the whole story was full of ‘could’, might’, possibly’ and so on. The BBC is totally out of order with their CC support/belief.dickymint said:
OMG just been advised on ITV, Save Money:Good Food to put your leftover salad into a plastic bag then blow into it - the CO2 keeps it fresh!!
Sorry if this should have been posted in the Science thread
If everybody opens their salad bags at the same time, are we bSorry if this should have been posted in the Science thread
ksed....?How's renewables transparency been coming along recently (badly)....has the subsidy farming industry actually worked out their own total costs alongside subsidy levels as yet in order to inform the public on industry overspends and cost increases - it doesn't look like it.
Lack of transparency over green energy subsidies 'shambolic', say MPs
Government criticised for failing to keep consumers updated as overspend on renewables is forecast to push up bills
There's no need for an either/or in the above comment, both options are very likely.
Lack of transparency over green energy subsidies 'shambolic', say MPs
Government criticised for failing to keep consumers updated as overspend on renewables is forecast to push up bills
Labour MP Meg Hillier said:
Either they’re trying to hide something or they’re incompetent. It’s not on, because it affects both the [energy industry] supply chain and consumers.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/feb/08/uk-government-green-energy-subsidies-energy-billsThere's no need for an either/or in the above comment, both options are very likely.
Paddy_N_Murphy said:
XM5ER said:
And the grid connections and substations mentioned in the article posted last week?
This part
"Successful projects are entitled not only to funding under the Renewable Energy Sources Act, but also to grid connection – financed through the network charges by the electricity consumers "
from here
http://www.offshorewind.biz/2017/04/13/germany-acc...
And before you say "well all powerstations need grid connections", I should point out that Germany is very different to the UK WRT a national grid I.E. it doesn't really have one.
I agree / you are rightThis part
"Successful projects are entitled not only to funding under the Renewable Energy Sources Act, but also to grid connection – financed through the network charges by the electricity consumers "
from here
http://www.offshorewind.biz/2017/04/13/germany-acc...
And before you say "well all powerstations need grid connections", I should point out that Germany is very different to the UK WRT a national grid I.E. it doesn't really have one.
The system there allows / facilitates the off shore grid connection, and in its own way provides a more economical solution of one OSS will allow a variety of 'wind farms' or individual utilities to capatilise on a single Capex cost- versus the way it works here where if need be (it's a factor of how far offshore the sites are and a lot of the UK Round 1 or 2 sites don't need the offshore substation)
They often say this provision of state connection is the equivalent of €6/Mhr in the LCOE scheme of things so use that to add in -
Still a bloody cheap price considering the last competitive CFD auction here a couple of years ago had East Anglia One at £117MW/he iirc - take off the €6 if you want, it's still worlds apart and demonstrates the scale / size of WTG and how it has a factor in the LCOE
ked up the electricity market and that ludicrous CFD auctions/prices are a symptom of that?Ah, I see it's time for Mr GrimNasty's made-up fact of the day
Mr GrimNasty said:
You do realise that the political deployment of subsidised non-commercially viable grid degrading renewables has completely fked up the electricity market and that ludicrous CFD auctions/prices are a symptom of that?
ked up the electricity market and that ludicrous CFD auctions/prices are a symptom of that?turbobloke said:
How's renewables transparency been coming along recently (badly)....has the subsidy farming industry actually worked out their own total costs alongside subsidy levels as yet in order to inform the public on industry overspends and cost increases - it doesn't look like it.
Lack of transparency over green energy subsidies 'shambolic', say MPs
Government criticised for failing to keep consumers updated as overspend on renewables is forecast to push up bills
There's no need for an either/or in the above comment, both options are very likely.
Presumably Meg discovered that when talking to Ed Miliband and discussing the background to the Climate Change Bill of which Labour were so supportive.Lack of transparency over green energy subsidies 'shambolic', say MPs
Government criticised for failing to keep consumers updated as overspend on renewables is forecast to push up bills
Labour MP Meg Hillier said:
Either they’re trying to hide something or they’re incompetent. It’s not on, because it affects both the [energy industry] supply chain and consumers.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/feb/08/uk-government-green-energy-subsidies-energy-billsThere's no need for an either/or in the above comment, both options are very likely.
There is a reason why even the most naive amongst us should have cause to be concerned for their futures if they allow the flow of politicians to drive Climate and Energy policy unquestioned.
Here is an article about a report that considers a number of papers that have proposed methods of greately expanding Renewable Energy capacity with the objective of ending any form of Fossil Fuel use by 2050.
http://euanmearns.com/the-dream-of-100-renewables-...
The Paper being considered is the work of a number of well known names from the Climate Change vanguard of experts.
Interestingly they seem to conclude that the is no currently viable suggestion on the table (at least from the papers they have considered and critiqued).
The Item was posted a couple of weeks ago so now there is a large additional resource of comments to consider.
It seems to offer something to everyone, no matter what their personal views may be.
There are a a couple of very interesting comments about the workings of NASA (notably in respect of the Space Shuttle and why it was pointless) and how even the most scientifically objective academics can become much less than objective as their careers progress.
Also about the influence of politics on decisions taken that move things in unfortunate directions but ultimately will be defended because to do anything else would be unacceptable to the masses who have been brainwashed in the intervening period.
Highly recommended.
I would suggest that anyone with pertinent observations post them in the comments for the link rather than here, thus engaginig with people who reguarly study the markets and the related questions.
http://euanmearns.com/the-dream-of-100-renewables-...
The Paper being considered is the work of a number of well known names from the Climate Change vanguard of experts.
Interestingly they seem to conclude that the is no currently viable suggestion on the table (at least from the papers they have considered and critiqued).
The Item was posted a couple of weeks ago so now there is a large additional resource of comments to consider.
It seems to offer something to everyone, no matter what their personal views may be.
There are a a couple of very interesting comments about the workings of NASA (notably in respect of the Space Shuttle and why it was pointless) and how even the most scientifically objective academics can become much less than objective as their careers progress.
Also about the influence of politics on decisions taken that move things in unfortunate directions but ultimately will be defended because to do anything else would be unacceptable to the masses who have been brainwashed in the intervening period.
Highly recommended.
I would suggest that anyone with pertinent observations post them in the comments for the link rather than here, thus engaginig with people who reguarly study the markets and the related questions.
Those two intellectual giants Gore and Di Caprio are joining the anti-Trumpers to protest about not spending zillions of dollars on a non-problem we didn't cause and won't fix (no need anyway). Rumour has it that Luke Warm Sky fallinginwalker is also on board. Fantasy matching made in heaven by Gaia never looked so good 
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/apr/28/th...
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/apr/28/th...
turbobloke said:
Those two intellectual giants Gore and Di Caprio are joining the anti-Trumpers to protest about not spending zillions of dollars on a non-problem we didn't cause and won't fix (no need anyway). Rumour has it that Luke Warm Sky fallinginwalker is also on board. Fantasy matching made in heaven by Gaia never looked so good
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/apr/28/th...
These people should really make the grand gesture that would support their beliefs.https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/apr/28/th...
Close down the disproportionately huge waste that is "Hollywood", abandon the ridiculous overheads of large mansions and excessive travel and, in general, practice what they preach.
The same goes for fleets of cars, especially the sort that require a lot of energy consumption to maintain whether used or not. Ridiculous for anyone who claims to be Ecologically minded.
The only down side that I can see would be the return of horses and oxen to the roads and in the cities and the extreme pollution that such a change would bring with it. On the plus side such a change would probably solve any excessive population worries and the "obesity crisis" within a generation or two.
Still, Californians are probably mad enough to do it although other perturbations related to the Fault Line may get them first.
Today's Telegraph Editorial from Charles Moore - very good and worth a read.
Summary :
Stern Report incorrect and should be reviewed now we have data.
Climate Change act exports jobs along with CO2. Its should be repealed.
Just about Managing need cheaper energy first (and an energy cap is destructive).
Charging people more to drive cars they were bribed by the Gov't to buy seems..... wrong
Ambitious?
Needed I think (and BREXIT offers the opportunity to do it). Tory Manifesto weak on these areas however
And while we are on, lets close down DoT and/or get some people who understand engineering involved in managing the roads. The M1 60mph thing is clearly the work of sandal wearing morons.
Summary :
Stern Report incorrect and should be reviewed now we have data.
Climate Change act exports jobs along with CO2. Its should be repealed.
Just about Managing need cheaper energy first (and an energy cap is destructive).
Charging people more to drive cars they were bribed by the Gov't to buy seems..... wrong
Ambitious?
Needed I think (and BREXIT offers the opportunity to do it). Tory Manifesto weak on these areas however
And while we are on, lets close down DoT and/or get some people who understand engineering involved in managing the roads. The M1 60mph thing is clearly the work of sandal wearing morons.
Davidonly said:
Today's Telegraph Editorial from Charles Moore - very good and worth a read.
Summary :
Stern Report incorrect and should be reviewed now we have data.
Climate Change act exports jobs along with CO2. Its should be repealed.
Just about Managing need cheaper energy first (and an energy cap is destructive).
Charging people more to drive cars they were bribed by the Gov't to buy seems..... wrong
Ambitious?
Needed I think (and BREXIT offers the opportunity to do it). Tory Manifesto weak on these areas however
And while we are on, lets close down DoT and/or get some people who understand engineering involved in managing the roads. The M1 60mph thing is clearly the work of sandal wearing morons.
Aye. Summary :
Stern Report incorrect and should be reviewed now we have data.
Climate Change act exports jobs along with CO2. Its should be repealed.
Just about Managing need cheaper energy first (and an energy cap is destructive).
Charging people more to drive cars they were bribed by the Gov't to buy seems..... wrong
Ambitious?
Needed I think (and BREXIT offers the opportunity to do it). Tory Manifesto weak on these areas however
And while we are on, lets close down DoT and/or get some people who understand engineering involved in managing the roads. The M1 60mph thing is clearly the work of sandal wearing morons.
Politicians with understandng...it'll never catch on
Brexit offers the opportunity to implement several overdue changes, but it looks as though May is still too frit to make the most of it.
Green heating system accused of causing 'fuel poverty'
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-39736010
A heating system meant to reduce bills is leaving people in fuel poverty, according to campaigners and residents.
The government wants millions of us to get heat and hot water from "district heating networks" to help meet carbon reduction targets.
But residents on some networks say they are more expensive than traditional heating and have been beset with problems.
Providers are working to tackle issues and say some schemes work brilliantly.
Instead of having a gas boiler in every home, heat networks send heat and hot water to numerous properties along a system of underground pipes from one central communal heat source.
This could be a mini-power station in the middle of a housing estate, or waste heat from a recycling plant or a factory.
A very good idea I think, but it must be made to work properly. Google Malmo in Sweden, the whole city runs like this
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-39736010
A heating system meant to reduce bills is leaving people in fuel poverty, according to campaigners and residents.
The government wants millions of us to get heat and hot water from "district heating networks" to help meet carbon reduction targets.
But residents on some networks say they are more expensive than traditional heating and have been beset with problems.
Providers are working to tackle issues and say some schemes work brilliantly.
Instead of having a gas boiler in every home, heat networks send heat and hot water to numerous properties along a system of underground pipes from one central communal heat source.
This could be a mini-power station in the middle of a housing estate, or waste heat from a recycling plant or a factory.
A very good idea I think, but it must be made to work properly. Google Malmo in Sweden, the whole city runs like this
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff