Climate change - the POLITICAL debate. Vol 4
Discussion
dickymint said:
kerplunk said:
Jinx said:
kerplunk said:
You don't seem to understand climate very well Jinx. The cause of the inter-annual ups and downs is mostly ENSO.
ENSO's been in negative territory for about a year and the recent dip reflects that. Seems to be bottoming out though and if ENSO forecasts pan out the expectation would be for temps to start heading up again in the coming months.
ENSO huh? So what controls ENSO?ENSO's been in negative territory for about a year and the recent dip reflects that. Seems to be bottoming out though and if ENSO forecasts pan out the expectation would be for temps to start heading up again in the coming months.
By the way shouldn't you be out festivaling this time of year? Too hot? No aircon in the glamping areas
El stovey said:
You did what before? Disprove consensus climate science? No you didn’t.
?
nope , just highlighted the point that a consensus doesn't mean much if it is wrong. the point was (i doubt you misunderstood my point, but just in case) that a consensus on a relatively trivial subject in comparison to the workings of the atmosphere of the planet was incorrect. for most people that would suggest it is possible a consensus on a subject that the main protagonists will admit great uncertainty and opposing views from within the community regarding certain aspects(like the role of clouds) could also be incorrect.?
if you happen to think that climate science is far more advanced and has none of the pitfalls of medical science then fair enough. i remain sceptical.
In the first half of 2018 there have been 254 new peer-reviewed papers affirming the position that there are significant limitations and uncertainties inherent in our understanding of climate change, demonstrating that climate science isn't settled, and therefore questioning the non-consensus position that anthropogenic CO2 emissions are causing climate change. However a believer somewhere has allegedly claimed there's no consensus on the 254 figure and that the number isn't setttled, unlike the disputed science in the papers which is undisputed and settled. Obviously.
gadgetmac said:
Genuine question, how many of those papers go on to give a balance-of-probabilities type conclusion and are they mostly generally sceptical of the current consensus?
http://notrickszone.com/2018/06/28/what-scientific-consensus-254-new-2018-papers-support-a-skeptical-position-on-climate-alarmism/This looks like the blog turbobloke has based his facts on. I’m not sure why he didn’t link to it.
turbobloke said:
Which consensus is being referred to this time?
Is it the false consensus for agw which doesn't exist, or the real non-consensus which (naturally) does exist?
Clinging to a non-consensus - comfort blankets revisited.
no idea ,no one ever seems to state which one when they refer to "the consensus" on here. i just assume they mean the cook nonsense that was debunked eons ago,but try to explain in a way that even if it hadn't been debunked the consensus claim is meaningless anyway. i think el stovey is a commercial pilot. i wonder how much faith he would have in the consensus behind the science that led to how the first comets were built ?Is it the false consensus for agw which doesn't exist, or the real non-consensus which (naturally) does exist?
Clinging to a non-consensus - comfort blankets revisited.
wc98 said:
turbobloke said:
Which consensus is being referred to this time?
Is it the false consensus for agw which doesn't exist, or the real non-consensus which (naturally) does exist?
Clinging to a non-consensus - comfort blankets revisited.
no idea ,no one ever seems to state which one when they refer to "the consensus" on here. i just assume they mean the cook nonsense that was debunked eons ago,but try to explain in a way that even if it hadn't been debunked the consensus claim is meaningless anyway. i think el stovey is a commercial pilot. i wonder how much faith he would have in the consensus behind the science that led to how the first comets were built ?Is it the false consensus for agw which doesn't exist, or the real non-consensus which (naturally) does exist?
Clinging to a non-consensus - comfort blankets revisited.
https://youtu.be/UBybnYN8ki4?t=495
Pruitt said in his press conference, defending Trumps withdrawal from the Paris agreement:
'I indicated that in fact, global warming is occurring, that human activity contributes to it, in some manner'.
https://climate.nasa.gov/scientific-consensus/
And these organisations:
http://www.opr.ca.gov/facts/list-of-scientific-org...
Academia Chilena de Ciencias, Chile
Academia das Ciencias de Lisboa, Portugal
Academia de Ciencias de la República Dominicana
Academia de Ciencias Físicas, Matemáticas y Naturales de Venezuela
Academia de Ciencias Medicas, Fisicas y Naturales de Guatemala
Academia Mexicana de Ciencias,Mexico
Academia Nacional de Ciencias de Bolivia
Academia Nacional de Ciencias del Peru
Académie des Sciences et Techniques du Sénégal
Académie des Sciences, France
Academies of Arts, Humanities and Sciences of Canada
Academy of Athens
Academy of Science of Mozambique
Academy of Science of South Africa
Academy of Sciences for the Developing World (TWAS)
Academy of Sciences Malaysia
Academy of Sciences of Moldova
Academy of Sciences of the Czech Republic
Academy of Sciences of the Islamic Republic of Iran
Academy of Scientific Research and Technology, Egypt
Academy of the Royal Society of New Zealand
Accademia Nazionale dei Lincei, Italy
Africa Centre for Climate and Earth Systems Science
African Academy of Sciences
Albanian Academy of Sciences
Amazon Environmental Research Institute
American Academy of Pediatrics
American Anthropological Association
American Association for the Advancement of Science
American Association of State Climatologists (AASC)
American Association of Wildlife Veterinarians
American Astronomical Society
American Chemical Society
American College of Preventive Medicine
American Fisheries Society
American Geophysical Union
American Institute of Biological Sciences
American Institute of Physics
American Meteorological Society
American Physical Society
American Public Health Association
American Quaternary Association
American Society for Microbiology
American Society of Agronomy
American Society of Civil Engineers
American Society of Plant Biologists
American Statistical Association
Association of Ecosystem Research Centers
Australian Academy of Science
Australian Bureau of Meteorology
Australian Coral Reef Society
Australian Institute of Marine Science
Australian Institute of Physics
Australian Marine Sciences Association
Australian Medical Association
Australian Meteorological and Oceanographic Society
Bangladesh Academy of Sciences
Botanical Society of America
Brazilian Academy of Sciences
British Antarctic Survey
Bulgarian Academy of Sciences
California Academy of Sciences
Cameroon Academy of Sciences
Canadian Association of Physicists
Canadian Foundation for Climate and Atmospheric Sciences
Canadian Geophysical Union
Canadian Meteorological and Oceanographic Society
Canadian Society of Soil Science
Canadian Society of Zoologists
Caribbean Academy of Sciences views
Center for International Forestry Research
Chinese Academy of Sciences
Colombian Academy of Exact, Physical and Natural Sciences
Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research Organization (CSIRO) (Australia)
Consultative Group on International Agricultural Research
Croatian Academy of Arts and Sciences
Crop Science Society of America
Cuban Academy of Sciences
Delegation of the Finnish Academies of Science and Letters
Ecological Society of America
Ecological Society of Australia
Environmental Protection Agency
European Academy of Sciences and Arts
European Federation of Geologists
European Geosciences Union
European Physical Society
European Science Foundation
Federation of American Scientists
French Academy of Sciences
Geological Society of America
Geological Society of Australia
Geological Society of London
Georgian Academy of Sciences
German Academy of Natural Scientists Leopoldina
Ghana Academy of Arts and Sciences
Indian National Science Academy
Indonesian Academy of Sciences
Institute of Ecology and Environmental Management
Institute of Marine Engineering, Science and Technology
Institute of Professional Engineers New Zealand
Institution of Mechanical Engineers, UK
InterAcademy Council
International Alliance of Research Universities
International Arctic Science Committee
International Association for Great Lakes Research
International Council for Science
International Council of Academies of Engineering and Technological Sciences
International Research Institute for Climate and Society
International Union for Quaternary Research
International Union of Geodesy and Geophysics
International Union of Pure and Applied Physics
Islamic World Academy of Sciences
Israel Academy of Sciences and Humanities
Kenya National Academy of Sciences
Korean Academy of Science and Technology
Kosovo Academy of Sciences and Arts
l'Académie des Sciences et Techniques du Sénégal
Latin American Academy of Sciences
Latvian Academy of Sciences
Lithuanian Academy of Sciences
Madagascar National Academy of Arts, Letters, and Sciences
Mauritius Academy of Science and Technology
Montenegrin Academy of Sciences and Arts
National Academy of Exact, Physical and Natural Sciences, Argentina
National Academy of Sciences of Armenia
National Academy of Sciences of the Kyrgyz Republic
National Academy of Sciences, Sri Lanka
National Academy of Sciences, United States of America
National Aeronautics and Space Administration
National Association of Geoscience Teachers
National Association of State Foresters
National Center for Atmospheric Research
National Council of Engineers Australia
National Institute of Water & Atmospheric Research, New Zealand
National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration
National Research Council
National Science Foundation
Natural England
Natural Environment Research Council, UK
Natural Science Collections Alliance
Network of African Science Academies
New York Academy of Sciences
Nicaraguan Academy of Sciences
Nigerian Academy of Sciences
Norwegian Academy of Sciences and Letters
Oklahoma Climatological Survey
Organization of Biological Field Stations
Pakistan Academy of Sciences
Palestine Academy for Science and Technology
Pew Center on Global Climate Change
Polish Academy of Sciences
Romanian Academy
Royal Academies for Science and the Arts of Belgium
Royal Academy of Exact, Physical and Natural Sciences of Spain
Royal Astronomical Society, UK
Royal Danish Academy of Sciences and Letters
Royal Irish Academy
Royal Meteorological Society (UK)
Royal Netherlands Academy of Arts and Sciences
Royal Netherlands Institute for Sea Research
Royal Scientific Society of Jordan
Royal Society of Canada
Royal Society of Chemistry, UK
Royal Society of the United Kingdom
Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences
Russian Academy of Sciences
Science and Technology, Australia
Science Council of Japan
Scientific Committee on Antarctic Research
Scientific Committee on Solar-Terrestrial Physics
Scripps Institution of Oceanography
Serbian Academy of Sciences and Arts
Slovak Academy of Sciences
Slovenian Academy of Sciences and Arts
Society for Ecological Restoration International
Society for Industrial and Applied Mathematics
Society of American Foresters
Society of Biology (UK)
Society of Systematic Biologists
Soil Science Society of America
Sudan Academy of Sciences
Sudanese National Academy of Science
Tanzania Academy of Sciences
The Wildlife Society (international)
Turkish Academy of Sciences
Uganda National Academy of Sciences
Union of German Academies of Sciences and Humanities
United Nations Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change
University Corporation for Atmospheric Research
Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution
Woods Hole Research Center
World Association of Zoos and Aquariums
World Federation of Public Health Associations
World Forestry Congress
World Health Organization
World Meteorological Organization
Zambia Academy of Sciences
Zimbabwe Academy of Sciences
And just about every seat of learning & government in the world.
El stovey said:
http://notrickszone.com/2018/06/28/what-scientific...
This looks like the blog turbobloke has based his facts on. I’m not sure why he didn’t link to it.
Our 'Spam likes peer review, but only when done among the 3%This looks like the blog turbobloke has based his facts on. I’m not sure why he didn’t link to it.
Court action to save young from climate bill
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-446...
An activist group hopes to sue the UK government over climate change, arguing that it is discriminating against the young by failing to cut emissions fast enough.
The campaigners - known collectively as Plan B - argue that if the UK postpones emissions cuts, the next generation will be left to pick up the bill.
It is seeking permission from a judge to launch formal legal action.
The government has promised to review its climate commitments.
A spokesperson said it was committed to tackling emissions.
But Plan B believes ministers may breach the law if they don't cut emissions deeper - in line with an international agreement made in Paris at the end of 2015 to restrict global temperature rise to as close to 1.5C as possible.
A hearing is set to be held on Wednesday at the High Court........continues
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-446...
An activist group hopes to sue the UK government over climate change, arguing that it is discriminating against the young by failing to cut emissions fast enough.
The campaigners - known collectively as Plan B - argue that if the UK postpones emissions cuts, the next generation will be left to pick up the bill.
It is seeking permission from a judge to launch formal legal action.
The government has promised to review its climate commitments.
A spokesperson said it was committed to tackling emissions.
But Plan B believes ministers may breach the law if they don't cut emissions deeper - in line with an international agreement made in Paris at the end of 2015 to restrict global temperature rise to as close to 1.5C as possible.
A hearing is set to be held on Wednesday at the High Court........continues
zygalski said:
wc98 said:
turbobloke said:
Which consensus is being referred to this time?
Is it the false consensus for agw which doesn't exist, or the real non-consensus which (naturally) does exist?
Clinging to a non-consensus - comfort blankets revisited.
no idea ,no one ever seems to state which one when they refer to "the consensus" on here. i just assume they mean the cook nonsense that was debunked eons ago,but try to explain in a way that even if it hadn't been debunked the consensus claim is meaningless anyway. i think el stovey is a commercial pilot. i wonder how much faith he would have in the consensus behind the science that led to how the first comets were built ?Is it the false consensus for agw which doesn't exist, or the real non-consensus which (naturally) does exist?
Clinging to a non-consensus - comfort blankets revisited.
https://youtu.be/UBybnYN8ki4?t=495
Pruitt said in his press conference, defending Trumps withdrawal from the Paris agreement:
'I indicated that in fact, global warming is occurring, that human activity contributes to it, in some manner'.
https://climate.nasa.gov/scientific-consensus/
And these organisations:
http://www.opr.ca.gov/facts/list-of-scientific-org...
Academia Chilena de Ciencias, Chile
Academia das Ciencias de Lisboa, Portugal
Academia de Ciencias de la República Dominicana
Academia de Ciencias Físicas, Matemáticas y Naturales de Venezuela
Academia de Ciencias Medicas, Fisicas y Naturales de Guatemala
Academia Mexicana de Ciencias,Mexico
Academia Nacional de Ciencias de Bolivia
Academia Nacional de Ciencias del Peru
Académie des Sciences et Techniques du Sénégal
Académie des Sciences, France
Academies of Arts, Humanities and Sciences of Canada
Academy of Athens
Academy of Science of Mozambique
Academy of Science of South Africa
Academy of Sciences for the Developing World (TWAS)
Academy of Sciences Malaysia
Academy of Sciences of Moldova
Academy of Sciences of the Czech Republic
Academy of Sciences of the Islamic Republic of Iran
Academy of Scientific Research and Technology, Egypt
Academy of the Royal Society of New Zealand
Accademia Nazionale dei Lincei, Italy
Africa Centre for Climate and Earth Systems Science
African Academy of Sciences
Albanian Academy of Sciences
Amazon Environmental Research Institute
American Academy of Pediatrics
American Anthropological Association
American Association for the Advancement of Science
American Association of State Climatologists (AASC)
American Association of Wildlife Veterinarians
American Astronomical Society
American Chemical Society
American College of Preventive Medicine
American Fisheries Society
American Geophysical Union
American Institute of Biological Sciences
American Institute of Physics
American Meteorological Society
American Physical Society
American Public Health Association
American Quaternary Association
American Society for Microbiology
American Society of Agronomy
American Society of Civil Engineers
American Society of Plant Biologists
American Statistical Association
Association of Ecosystem Research Centers
Australian Academy of Science
Australian Bureau of Meteorology
Australian Coral Reef Society
Australian Institute of Marine Science
Australian Institute of Physics
Australian Marine Sciences Association
Australian Medical Association
Australian Meteorological and Oceanographic Society
Bangladesh Academy of Sciences
Botanical Society of America
Brazilian Academy of Sciences
British Antarctic Survey
Bulgarian Academy of Sciences
California Academy of Sciences
Cameroon Academy of Sciences
Canadian Association of Physicists
Canadian Foundation for Climate and Atmospheric Sciences
Canadian Geophysical Union
Canadian Meteorological and Oceanographic Society
Canadian Society of Soil Science
Canadian Society of Zoologists
Caribbean Academy of Sciences views
Center for International Forestry Research
Chinese Academy of Sciences
Colombian Academy of Exact, Physical and Natural Sciences
Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research Organization (CSIRO) (Australia)
Consultative Group on International Agricultural Research
Croatian Academy of Arts and Sciences
Crop Science Society of America
Cuban Academy of Sciences
Delegation of the Finnish Academies of Science and Letters
Ecological Society of America
Ecological Society of Australia
Environmental Protection Agency
European Academy of Sciences and Arts
European Federation of Geologists
European Geosciences Union
European Physical Society
European Science Foundation
Federation of American Scientists
French Academy of Sciences
Geological Society of America
Geological Society of Australia
Geological Society of London
Georgian Academy of Sciences
German Academy of Natural Scientists Leopoldina
Ghana Academy of Arts and Sciences
Indian National Science Academy
Indonesian Academy of Sciences
Institute of Ecology and Environmental Management
Institute of Marine Engineering, Science and Technology
Institute of Professional Engineers New Zealand
Institution of Mechanical Engineers, UK
InterAcademy Council
International Alliance of Research Universities
International Arctic Science Committee
International Association for Great Lakes Research
International Council for Science
International Council of Academies of Engineering and Technological Sciences
International Research Institute for Climate and Society
International Union for Quaternary Research
International Union of Geodesy and Geophysics
International Union of Pure and Applied Physics
Islamic World Academy of Sciences
Israel Academy of Sciences and Humanities
Kenya National Academy of Sciences
Korean Academy of Science and Technology
Kosovo Academy of Sciences and Arts
l'Académie des Sciences et Techniques du Sénégal
Latin American Academy of Sciences
Latvian Academy of Sciences
Lithuanian Academy of Sciences
Madagascar National Academy of Arts, Letters, and Sciences
Mauritius Academy of Science and Technology
Montenegrin Academy of Sciences and Arts
National Academy of Exact, Physical and Natural Sciences, Argentina
National Academy of Sciences of Armenia
National Academy of Sciences of the Kyrgyz Republic
National Academy of Sciences, Sri Lanka
National Academy of Sciences, United States of America
National Aeronautics and Space Administration
National Association of Geoscience Teachers
National Association of State Foresters
National Center for Atmospheric Research
National Council of Engineers Australia
National Institute of Water & Atmospheric Research, New Zealand
National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration
National Research Council
National Science Foundation
Natural England
Natural Environment Research Council, UK
Natural Science Collections Alliance
Network of African Science Academies
New York Academy of Sciences
Nicaraguan Academy of Sciences
Nigerian Academy of Sciences
Norwegian Academy of Sciences and Letters
Oklahoma Climatological Survey
Organization of Biological Field Stations
Pakistan Academy of Sciences
Palestine Academy for Science and Technology
Pew Center on Global Climate Change
Polish Academy of Sciences
Romanian Academy
Royal Academies for Science and the Arts of Belgium
Royal Academy of Exact, Physical and Natural Sciences of Spain
Royal Astronomical Society, UK
Royal Danish Academy of Sciences and Letters
Royal Irish Academy
Royal Meteorological Society (UK)
Royal Netherlands Academy of Arts and Sciences
Royal Netherlands Institute for Sea Research
Royal Scientific Society of Jordan
Royal Society of Canada
Royal Society of Chemistry, UK
Royal Society of the United Kingdom
Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences
Russian Academy of Sciences
Science and Technology, Australia
Science Council of Japan
Scientific Committee on Antarctic Research
Scientific Committee on Solar-Terrestrial Physics
Scripps Institution of Oceanography
Serbian Academy of Sciences and Arts
Slovak Academy of Sciences
Slovenian Academy of Sciences and Arts
Society for Ecological Restoration International
Society for Industrial and Applied Mathematics
Society of American Foresters
Society of Biology (UK)
Society of Systematic Biologists
Soil Science Society of America
Sudan Academy of Sciences
Sudanese National Academy of Science
Tanzania Academy of Sciences
The Wildlife Society (international)
Turkish Academy of Sciences
Uganda National Academy of Sciences
Union of German Academies of Sciences and Humanities
United Nations Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change
University Corporation for Atmospheric Research
Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution
Woods Hole Research Center
World Association of Zoos and Aquariums
World Federation of Public Health Associations
World Forestry Congress
World Health Organization
World Meteorological Organization
Zambia Academy of Sciences
Zimbabwe Academy of Sciences
And just about every seat of learning & government in the world.
robinessex said:
Of course, none of the above rely on supporting AGW for their funds, do they ??
Oh here we go.Just waiting for your proof of the AGW scam...?
You'll make a fortune & your name will be remembered for eternity for disproving the biggest global scientific, educational & political con in human history.
LoonyTunes said:
robinessex said:
Of course, none of the above rely on supporting AGW for their funds, do they ??
So now the organisations that support AGW are all in it for the money but those opposing it and receiving funds from oil and other corporations are not?
robinessex said:
Idiot. Supporters of AGW NEED to keep to keep singing from the same hymn sheet, otherwise the funds, mostly from governments dry up, and they're history. Opponents of AGW are freely funded by business, and, er why not? It's a supposedly free world, so what's wrong with that?
"freely funded by business....." 
Why do you think that might be?
OTOH we have governments who are supposedly looking after the interests of the people who elected them and OTOH we have businesses whose sole interests are to look after the interests of their shareholders. People vs. profit..... tough choice!
robinessex said:
Idiot.
Another f
king keyboard warrior eh?robinessex said:
Supporters of AGW NEED to keep to keep singing from the same hymn sheet, otherwise the funds, mostly from governments dry up, and they're history. Opponents of AGW are freely funded by business, and, er why not? It's a supposedly free world, so what's wrong with that?
So funded by democratically elected govts = bad but funded by profit driven companies = good.I'd stoop to your level of insult but can't bend that far.
LoonyTunes said:
So funded by democratically elected govts = bad but funded by profit driven companies = good.
I'd stoop to your level of insult but can't bend that far.
Are you saying that the government doesn't have an agenda and we aren't constantly being socially engineered to think a certain way.I'd stoop to your level of insult but can't bend that far.
Look at drink driving, smoking, speeding etc you can't tell the majority of the population have suddenly decided to change their views on these in the last 40 years without a push from the government.
They are now pushing electric vehicles, sugar use and climate change and possibly not for the reasons we perceive.
voyds9 said:
LoonyTunes said:
So funded by democratically elected govts = bad but funded by profit driven companies = good.
I'd stoop to your level of insult but can't bend that far.
Are you saying that the government doesn't have an agenda and we aren't constantly being socially engineered to think a certain way.I'd stoop to your level of insult but can't bend that far.
Look at drink driving, smoking, speeding etc you can't tell the majority of the population have suddenly decided to change their views on these in the last 40 years without a push from the government.
They are now pushing electric vehicles, sugar use and climate change and possibly not for the reasons we perceive.
Oh look, Manbearpig...
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