Climate change - the POLITICAL debate. Vol 4

[robinessex]

Oh look, the Government says were all going to melt in er, sometime in the future, so were going to be heroes, and save the planet. Get on the end of the que

[Jinx]

kerplunk said:

Jinx said:

kerplunk said:

You don't seem to understand climate very well Jinx. The cause of the inter-annual ups and downs is mostly ENSO.

ENSO's been in negative territory for about a year and the recent dip reflects that. Seems to be bottoming out though and if ENSO forecasts pan out the expectation would be for temps to start heading up again in the coming months.

ENSO huh? So what controls ENSO?

You've got me there - I'm not sure that's fully understood by anyone.

https://bobtisdale.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/pre...

[turbobloke]

stew-STR160 said:

voyds9 said:

LoonyTunes said:

So funded by democratically elected govts = bad but funded by profit driven companies = good.

I'd stoop to your level of insult but can't bend that far.

Are you saying that the government doesn't have an agenda and we aren't constantly being socially engineered to think a certain way.

Look at drink driving, smoking, speeding etc you can't tell the majority of the population have suddenly decided to change their views on these in the last 40 years without a push from the government.
They are now pushing electric vehicles, sugar use and climate change and possibly not for the reasons we perceive.

Governments would never lie to the people...ever...it's just not something any Government would do...

Oh look, Manbearpig...

Exactly, the irony in LT's post runs deep.

Cute use of 'elected' as though that makes any difference once the lizards are in office. It's all a bit much, and makes you wonder what elected governments would do without the tax from private sector profit, and private sector employees, which pays the bills (as opposed to public sector recycling of private sector taxes).

State funded primary schools are a rich source of pester power where indoctrinated children go home and nag their parents. In some cases, the school side is more blatant and it's nothing particularly new.

George Callaghan as LA Schools Travel Plan Officer for Stockton On Tees Borough Council referring to educating pupils on how they should travel to school dated 25 Feb 2004 said:

Our aim is to brainwash each new generation

Education=Indoctrination

For adults with transport choices, Nudge Theory (Thaler and Sunstein) has been around for some time and still is.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/science/2010/11/...

Preachy and heavy-handed believers, that makes a change

Still, the largely unelected EU powermeisters will surely make good use of taxpayers' hard-earned money, better than the UK gov't for sure, given their solid reputation in finance matters.

Activists would never be given grants from a European Commission environmental fund to influence the EU and promote EU green blob policies that the EU doesn't need influencing about.

Article on EU use of taxpayer cash to pay green blobbers to green blobby lobby the EU on matters where the EU is already on side said:

The practice has been branded a "cash carousel" by critics, who have called for the special fund called Life + to be scrapped. In total, the fund has handed out more than £90 million to green groups in the past 15 years, according to the Tax-Payers' Alliance, which has analysed its spending.

Just over a fifth of its funding - £7.5 million in the latest round of grants - went to help "strengthen" green groups "in the dialogue process in environmental policymaking and in its implementation".

One Brussels-based campaign group, the European Environmental Bureau (EEB), has received £10.5million from the fund since 1997, according to the TaxPayers' Alliance. The group's stated mission is to "influence EU policymaking" and ensure EU policies are properly implemented by member states.

The European policy office of the World Wide Fund for Nature, also based in Brussels, has received £7.4 million, while Friends of the Earth Europe (FoEE), also based in Brussels, is the third highest recipient with £6.4 million.

In total, 25 groups have each been given more than €1 million (£850,000) from Life+. EU funding has helped to pay for a video, produced by FoE, ofa green superhero called Energy Savings Man, which lobbied the British and German governments to back an EC energy savings directive, which has since come into force. In its most recent round of grants (recent was 2013 at the time of the article) Life+ awarded £7.5 million to 32 groups, including the Kyoto Club based in Rome.

Kyoto Club

[chrispmartha]

turbobloke said:

Cute use of 'elected' as though that makes any difference once the lizards are in office.

Have you finally gone full David Icke?

[turbobloke]

chrispmartha said:

turbobloke said:

Cute use of 'elected' as though that makes any difference once the lizards are in office.

Have you finally gone full David Icke?

Personal abuse, massive irony and weak humour make a pathetic combination, as your post demonstrates.

Political lizardry as above merely alludes to the reptilian DNA shared by almost all politicians involved in selling snake oil to voters e.g. Blair, most of the EU.

It's not about actual lizards, though you knew that. Such desperation to ignore the rest of what I posted shows how much you have at your disposal to contribute to the thread - approx zero.

Feel free to keep it up! Looking forward to your next offering!

[zygalski]

So it's a global conspiracy with everyone involved but apparently also there's no consensus!

[chrispmartha]

turbobloke said:

chrispmartha said:

turbobloke said:

Cute use of 'elected' as though that makes any difference once the lizards are in office.

Have you finally gone full David Icke?

Personal abuse, massive irony and weak humour make a pathetic combination, as your post demonstrates.

Political lizardry as above merely alludes to the reptilian DNA shared by almost all politicians involved in selling snake oil to voters e.g. Blair, most of the EU.

It's not about actual lizards, though you knew that. Such desperation to ignore the rest of what I posted shows how much you have at your disposal to contribute to the thread - approx zero.

Feel free to keep it up! Looking forward to your next offering!

It was a joke, try not to take yourself so seriously.

I have not one bit of inclination to read and debate your conspiracy theories

[Countdown]

voyds9 said:

Look at drink driving, smoking, speeding etc you can't tell the majority of the population have suddenly decided to change their views on these in the last 40 years without a push from the government.

Do you think it's a bad thing that drink-driving and smoking are being penalised by the Govt?

voyds9 said:

They are now pushing electric vehicles, sugar use and climate change and possibly not for the reasons we perceive.

What reasons might they be?

[robinessex]

zygalski said:

So it's a global conspiracy with everyone involved but apparently also there's no consensus!

[LoonyTunes]

zygalski said:

So it's a global conspiracy with everyone involved but apparently also there's no consensus!

Slagging off Govt's in favour of Corporates. And yet the sceptics on here say "follow the money".

[LongQ]

zygalski said:

So it's a global conspiracy with everyone involved but apparently also there's no consensus!

Having covered this so many times before only a handful of people here seem to be unable to assimilate what is obvious to everyone - even the leaders of big business industries who in most cases can see which way the wind is blowing and have no inclination to try to sail against it whichever way it may eventually turn.

I mean, why would they care that might happen in 80 year's or more from now? They will be long past salaries, bonuses and pension contributions by then. Today's easiest path is all that matters.

Edited by LongQ on Wednesday 4th July 14:04

[kerplunk]

Jinx said:

kerplunk said:

Jinx said:

kerplunk said:

You don't seem to understand climate very well Jinx. The cause of the inter-annual ups and downs is mostly ENSO.

ENSO's been in negative territory for about a year and the recent dip reflects that. Seems to be bottoming out though and if ENSO forecasts pan out the expectation would be for temps to start heading up again in the coming months.

ENSO huh? So what controls ENSO?

You've got me there - I'm not sure that's fully understood by anyone.

https://bobtisdale.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/pre...

Haven't clicked on it but I'm aware of Bob Tidale's lonely theory about ENSO already, thanks anyway.

[turbobloke]

ENSO?

See Bucha (peer-reviewed papers referenced many times on PH climate threads).

Then you'll note the role of solar eruptivity and in particular the auroral oval climate forcing of which IPCC/accolytes remain wilfully ignorant.

Restaurants and bars seem to be in fashion as places where intelligent well-informed activists harrass politicians who don't believe in whatever daft idea triggered the intelligent well-informed activist.

https://nypost.com/2018/07/02/scott-pruitt-becomes...

We want a believer, says a believer. "He did no denying".

[Dindoit]

chrispmartha said:

I have not one bit of inclination to read and debate your conspiracy theories

Hang around. His graphs on chemtrails are fascinating.

[steveT350C]

'Arizona appellate court decides ‘Hockey Stick’ emails must be released'....

https://tallbloke.wordpress.com/2018/07/04/arizona...

[LoonyTunes]

Interesting aside: Heat records being set all around the globe apparently.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/capital-weathe...

[grumbledoak]

steveT350C said:

'Arizona appellate court decides ‘Hockey Stick’ emails must be released'....

https://tallbloke.wordpress.com/2018/07/04/arizona...

Ooh. That might get interesting...

[dickymint]

grumbledoak said:

steveT350C said:

'Arizona appellate court decides ‘Hockey Stick’ emails must be released'....

https://tallbloke.wordpress.com/2018/07/04/arizona...

Ooh. That might get interesting...

It'll go to a penalty shoot out so fingers crossed

[Lotus 50]

turbobloke said:

"pretty warm"



It's currently as "pretty warm" (TM kerplunk) as it was at this time of year in 1991, 2001 and 2012, not forgetting the tail end of 1988.

In the UAH LTT data plotted below, the peaks for 1997-98, 2009-10 and 2015-16 arose from natural El Nino events. There's no human warming anywhere to be seen, as causality to humans is currently unavailable with whereabouts unknown.

TB your graph and apparent refusal to see the underlying trend in the graph you posted prompted me to try and hunt down the source publication for the original data. I'm not sure if the one below is the original source but it does seem to analyse the same data and identifies a warming trend over the time series of +.114 deg C per decade - which I think is pretty much in line with the general surface temp increase trends measured elsewhere.

https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/3492/d91b60dbb3b3...

https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/research/monitoring/c...

In other words the lower atmosphere is getting warmer (and not just as a result of el nino events).

In a subsequent post you referred to the work of Bucha in identifying the link between climate and solar/geomagnetic activity. I've had a rummage and found a few papers of his but they're mostly 20+ years old and he seems to readliy accept the human influence on climate that you claim doesn't exist and that, in the first paper (published in 1998) the solar/geomagnetic influence is likely to be a cooling one (and thus slow global warming down).

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/...
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/...

You keep saying there's no causality between CO2 and climate change, where's your evidence for causality between the role of solar eruptivity/auroral oval climate forcing and the surface temp changes that we've experienced since the industrial revolution? Over the last 2 decades the trend is still upwards...

[wc98]

zygalski said:

Well, for starters, the kind of consensus that includes the Trump administration.
https://youtu.be/UBybnYN8ki4?t=495
Pruitt said in his press conference, defending Trumps withdrawal from the Paris agreement:
'I indicated that in fact, global warming is occurring, that human activity contributes to it, in some manner'.

https://climate.nasa.gov/scientific-consensus/

And these organisations:
http://www.opr.ca.gov/facts/list-of-scientific-org...

Academia Chilena de Ciencias, Chile
Academia das Ciencias de Lisboa, Portugal
Academia de Ciencias de la República Dominicana
Academia de Ciencias Físicas, Matemáticas y Naturales de Venezuela
Academia de Ciencias Medicas, Fisicas y Naturales de Guatemala
Academia Mexicana de Ciencias,Mexico
Academia Nacional de Ciencias de Bolivia
Academia Nacional de Ciencias del Peru
Académie des Sciences et Techniques du Sénégal
Académie des Sciences, France
Academies of Arts, Humanities and Sciences of Canada
Academy of Athens
Academy of Science of Mozambique
Academy of Science of South Africa
Academy of Sciences for the Developing World (TWAS)
Academy of Sciences Malaysia
Academy of Sciences of Moldova
Academy of Sciences of the Czech Republic
Academy of Sciences of the Islamic Republic of Iran
Academy of Scientific Research and Technology, Egypt
Academy of the Royal Society of New Zealand
Accademia Nazionale dei Lincei, Italy
Africa Centre for Climate and Earth Systems Science
African Academy of Sciences
Albanian Academy of Sciences
Amazon Environmental Research Institute
American Academy of Pediatrics
American Anthropological Association
American Association for the Advancement of Science
American Association of State Climatologists (AASC)
American Association of Wildlife Veterinarians
American Astronomical Society
American Chemical Society
American College of Preventive Medicine
American Fisheries Society
American Geophysical Union
American Institute of Biological Sciences
American Institute of Physics
American Meteorological Society
American Physical Society
American Public Health Association
American Quaternary Association
American Society for Microbiology
American Society of Agronomy
American Society of Civil Engineers
American Society of Plant Biologists
American Statistical Association
Association of Ecosystem Research Centers
Australian Academy of Science
Australian Bureau of Meteorology
Australian Coral Reef Society
Australian Institute of Marine Science
Australian Institute of Physics
Australian Marine Sciences Association
Australian Medical Association
Australian Meteorological and Oceanographic Society
Bangladesh Academy of Sciences
Botanical Society of America
Brazilian Academy of Sciences
British Antarctic Survey
Bulgarian Academy of Sciences
California Academy of Sciences
Cameroon Academy of Sciences
Canadian Association of Physicists
Canadian Foundation for Climate and Atmospheric Sciences
Canadian Geophysical Union
Canadian Meteorological and Oceanographic Society
Canadian Society of Soil Science
Canadian Society of Zoologists
Caribbean Academy of Sciences views
Center for International Forestry Research
Chinese Academy of Sciences
Colombian Academy of Exact, Physical and Natural Sciences
Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research Organization (CSIRO) (Australia)
Consultative Group on International Agricultural Research
Croatian Academy of Arts and Sciences
Crop Science Society of America
Cuban Academy of Sciences
Delegation of the Finnish Academies of Science and Letters
Ecological Society of America
Ecological Society of Australia
Environmental Protection Agency
European Academy of Sciences and Arts
European Federation of Geologists
European Geosciences Union
European Physical Society
European Science Foundation
Federation of American Scientists
French Academy of Sciences
Geological Society of America
Geological Society of Australia
Geological Society of London
Georgian Academy of Sciences
German Academy of Natural Scientists Leopoldina
Ghana Academy of Arts and Sciences
Indian National Science Academy
Indonesian Academy of Sciences
Institute of Ecology and Environmental Management
Institute of Marine Engineering, Science and Technology
Institute of Professional Engineers New Zealand
Institution of Mechanical Engineers, UK
InterAcademy Council
International Alliance of Research Universities
International Arctic Science Committee
International Association for Great Lakes Research
International Council for Science
International Council of Academies of Engineering and Technological Sciences
International Research Institute for Climate and Society
International Union for Quaternary Research
International Union of Geodesy and Geophysics
International Union of Pure and Applied Physics
Islamic World Academy of Sciences
Israel Academy of Sciences and Humanities
Kenya National Academy of Sciences
Korean Academy of Science and Technology
Kosovo Academy of Sciences and Arts
l'Académie des Sciences et Techniques du Sénégal
Latin American Academy of Sciences
Latvian Academy of Sciences
Lithuanian Academy of Sciences
Madagascar National Academy of Arts, Letters, and Sciences
Mauritius Academy of Science and Technology
Montenegrin Academy of Sciences and Arts
National Academy of Exact, Physical and Natural Sciences, Argentina
National Academy of Sciences of Armenia
National Academy of Sciences of the Kyrgyz Republic
National Academy of Sciences, Sri Lanka
National Academy of Sciences, United States of America
National Aeronautics and Space Administration
National Association of Geoscience Teachers
National Association of State Foresters
National Center for Atmospheric Research
National Council of Engineers Australia
National Institute of Water & Atmospheric Research, New Zealand
National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration
National Research Council
National Science Foundation
Natural England
Natural Environment Research Council, UK
Natural Science Collections Alliance
Network of African Science Academies
New York Academy of Sciences
Nicaraguan Academy of Sciences
Nigerian Academy of Sciences
Norwegian Academy of Sciences and Letters
Oklahoma Climatological Survey
Organization of Biological Field Stations
Pakistan Academy of Sciences
Palestine Academy for Science and Technology
Pew Center on Global Climate Change
Polish Academy of Sciences
Romanian Academy
Royal Academies for Science and the Arts of Belgium
Royal Academy of Exact, Physical and Natural Sciences of Spain
Royal Astronomical Society, UK
Royal Danish Academy of Sciences and Letters
Royal Irish Academy
Royal Meteorological Society (UK)
Royal Netherlands Academy of Arts and Sciences
Royal Netherlands Institute for Sea Research
Royal Scientific Society of Jordan
Royal Society of Canada
Royal Society of Chemistry, UK
Royal Society of the United Kingdom
Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences
Russian Academy of Sciences
Science and Technology, Australia
Science Council of Japan
Scientific Committee on Antarctic Research
Scientific Committee on Solar-Terrestrial Physics
Scripps Institution of Oceanography
Serbian Academy of Sciences and Arts
Slovak Academy of Sciences
Slovenian Academy of Sciences and Arts
Society for Ecological Restoration International
Society for Industrial and Applied Mathematics
Society of American Foresters
Society of Biology (UK)
Society of Systematic Biologists
Soil Science Society of America
Sudan Academy of Sciences
Sudanese National Academy of Science
Tanzania Academy of Sciences
The Wildlife Society (international)
Turkish Academy of Sciences
Uganda National Academy of Sciences
Union of German Academies of Sciences and Humanities
United Nations Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change
University Corporation for Atmospheric Research
Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution
Woods Hole Research Center
World Association of Zoos and Aquariums
World Federation of Public Health Associations
World Forestry Congress
World Health Organization
World Meteorological Organization
Zambia Academy of Sciences
Zimbabwe Academy of Sciences

And just about every seat of learning & government in the world.

i take it you haven't read many of my posts then ? or others of a sceptical position ? the pruitt quote is not at odds with my position, nor that of anyone else posting here as far as i can read,but then i have read the entire thread.