Northern Ireland

[Mortarboard]

roger.mellie said:

Dumbass me in his first foray dealing with Irish civil servants didn't realise they're up to their necks in the things I was slagging the politicians about. There's a reason I don't fit in. You live and learn. I can fake it but I shouldn't have to and that's what scares some about SF.

I very much believe that SF are of the view that if you don't like our principles we have others and are just an electoral machine that doesn't care about the old trot members but the traction they're getting is for a reason.

I'm a relative nobody but even I have a few politicians I can contact directly if needs be.

M.

[roger.mellie]

Mortarboard said:

roger.mellie said:

Dumbass me in his first foray dealing with Irish civil servants didn't realise they're up to their necks in the things I was slagging the politicians about. There's a reason I don't fit in. You live and learn. I can fake it but I shouldn't have to and that's what scares some about SF.

I very much believe that SF are of the view that if you don't like our principles we have others and are just an electoral machine that doesn't care about the old trot members but the traction they're getting is for a reason.

I'm a relative nobody but even I have a few politicians I can contact directly if needs be.

M.

As it should be, they're public servants after all, even if some of them don't remember that .

[roger.mellie]

Mortarboard said:

roger.mellie said:

Dumbass me in his first foray dealing with Irish civil servants didn't realise they're up to their necks in the things I was slagging the politicians about. There's a reason I don't fit in. You live and learn. I can fake it but I shouldn't have to and that's what scares some about SF.

I very much believe that SF are of the view that if you don't like our principles we have others and are just an electoral machine that doesn't care about the old trot members but the traction they're getting is for a reason.

I'm a relative nobody but even I have a few politicians I can contact directly if needs be.

M.

Ignore the politics a bit. Ash just came on the radio. I've met them but don't really have any claims to knowing them unlike a few friends who came from Downpatrick. You're older than me, I'm sure you have stories on some local bands. Weirdly I've just thought about it and my mind is a blank, I can not think of a single local band that has registered in my brain since the 90's. My brain seems to have stopped at Therapy. That's my problem and not their's but as a regular limelight attendee I just realised I'm in one ear and out the other when it comes to local bands now. I've even bought CD's from never to be heard again bands like the cheese junkies but I'll never listen to them.

[Mortarboard]

roger.mellie said:

Ignore the politics a bit. Ash just came on the radio. I've met them but don't really have any claims to knowing them unlike a few friends who came from Downpatrick. You're older than me, I'm sure you have stories on some local bands. Weirdly I've just thought about it and my mind is a blank, I can not think of a single local band that has registered in my brain since the 90's. My brain seems to have stopped at Therapy. That's my problem and not their's but as a regular limelight attendee I just realised I'm in one ear and out the other when it comes to local bands now. I've even bought CD's from never to be heard again bands like the cheese junkies but I'll never listen to them.

Don't think I'm thatmuch older than you.

But having said that, I've been on the beer with the Ramones, and almost booked Motorhead once. So maybe a month or two older
"local bands" post 90's? Depends on what you'd class a successful, that's a moving target these days. Buddy of mine has played with the likes of Satriani, Vai, etc. Was on the same bill as Iron Maiden a year or two back. Was given a pair of "cheap sunglasses" by Billy Gibbons at a gig.

Two belfast bands I'd love to have heard more from were Studpuppy and Unsound (at least, i think they were belfast based)

Depending on your tastes, there's bands out there. Post-covid should see a live revival soon-ish. You're probably of an age where the Rory Gallagher festival (that's not a million miles away from you) might be of interest. Side note, I helped in a minor way to get that off the ground, including building the first stage for it in the car park of Owen Roes.

M.

[sparta6]

Vasco said:

So.....

The south doesn't really want the north
The north doesn't really want the south
The 'UK' didn't want the EU
The Scots don't want Westminster

.......and it's being left to Boris to sort it out.

Seriously, who'd want the PM job ? Doesn't even pay much considering the responsibility

[roger.mellie]

Mortarboard said:

roger.mellie said:

Ignore the politics a bit. Ash just came on the radio. I've met them but don't really have any claims to knowing them unlike a few friends who came from Downpatrick. You're older than me, I'm sure you have stories on some local bands. Weirdly I've just thought about it and my mind is a blank, I can not think of a single local band that has registered in my brain since the 90's. My brain seems to have stopped at Therapy. That's my problem and not their's but as a regular limelight attendee I just realised I'm in one ear and out the other when it comes to local bands now. I've even bought CD's from never to be heard again bands like the cheese junkies but I'll never listen to them.

Don't think I'm thatmuch older than you.

But having said that, I've been on the beer with the Ramones, and almost booked Motorhead once. So maybe a month or two older
"local bands" post 90's? Depends on what you'd class a successful, that's a moving target these days. Buddy of mine has played with the likes of Satriani, Vai, etc. Was on the same bill as Iron Maiden a year or two back. Was given a pair of "cheap sunglasses" by Billy Gibbons at a gig.

Two belfast bands I'd love to have heard more from were Studpuppy and Unsound (at least, i think they were belfast based)

Depending on your tastes, there's bands out there. Post-covid should see a live revival soon-ish. You're probably of an age where the Rory Gallagher festival (that's not a million miles away from you) might be of interest. Side note, I helped in a minor way to get that off the ground, including building the first stage for it in the car park of Owen Roes.

M.

And I've got drunk with Dave Grohl (true story) but yes I do view you as an old man old man . I totally jest but I'd like to hear more about that Ramones story. This thread is far too focussed on politics. I'm a bit of a philistine with no taste but I do make the effort to see live music when I can, Rory Gallagher is for reasons I'm sure you know someone I'm familiar with (if not ma is a Gallagher) but you are definitely more involved in the booking industry so I suspected you've some stories waiting to be told .

[Mortarboard]

roger.mellie said:

And I've got drunk with Dave Grohl (true story) but yes I do view you as an old man old man . I totally jest but I'd like to hear more about that Ramones story. This thread is far too focussed on politics. I'm a bit of a philistine with no taste but I do make the effort to see live music when I can, Rory Gallagher is for reasons I'm sure you know someone I'm familiar with (if not ma is a Gallagher) but you are definitely more involved in the booking industry so I suspected you've some stories waiting to be told .

Ramones story is a bit of a simple one. I was Prez of a Rock Society at the time, one of our DJ's was a major ramones fan, and had scored a post-gig interview with them in manchester. I knew the name, but couldn't have named one of their songs... They had asked him where to go for a quiet beer in the town, and I just happened to bump into my guy as I was walking past the venue. Then out on the beer. Was around the time Marky fell off the wagon. General ste talk was had all 'round.
Not in the booking industry as such, but I have been involved in a few things It's a very, very, small world in certain circles.

M.

[Welshbeef]

roger.mellie said:

And I've got drunk with Dave Grohl (true story) but yes I do view you as an old man old man . I totally jest but I'd like to hear more about that Ramones story. This thread is far too focussed on politics. I'm a bit of a philistine with no taste but I do make the effort to see live music when I can, Rory Gallagher is for reasons I'm sure you know someone I'm familiar with (if not ma is a Gallagher) but you are definitely more involved in the booking industry so I suspected you've some stories waiting to be told .

Foo fighters are one if not my favourite all time bands. Gutted I didn’t get to go to Reading Festival on either of their appearances.

I can imagine getting drunk with them would have been such a good time

[roger.mellie]

Welshbeef said:

roger.mellie said:

And I've got drunk with Dave Grohl (true story) but yes I do view you as an old man old man . I totally jest but I'd like to hear more about that Ramones story. This thread is far too focussed on politics. I'm a bit of a philistine with no taste but I do make the effort to see live music when I can, Rory Gallagher is for reasons I'm sure you know someone I'm familiar with (if not ma is a Gallagher) but you are definitely more involved in the booking industry so I suspected you've some stories waiting to be told .

Foo fighters are one if not my favourite all time bands. Gutted I didn’t get to go to Reading Festival on either of their appearances.

I can imagine getting drunk with them would have been such a good time

I don't say this lightly, I like the foo fighters much more than I liked nirvana, a few songs excepted. The foos are one of the best bands ever.

[loafer123]

I thought this was interesting;

https://twitter.com/DerrickBerthel1/status/1526273...

It does seem that a pragmatic approach by both sides should be able to resolve the issues.

[Roderick Spode]

Mortarboard said:

roger.mellie said:

Ignore the politics a bit. Ash just came on the radio. I've met them but don't really have any claims to knowing them unlike a few friends who came from Downpatrick. You're older than me, I'm sure you have stories on some local bands. Weirdly I've just thought about it and my mind is a blank, I can not think of a single local band that has registered in my brain since the 90's. My brain seems to have stopped at Therapy. That's my problem and not their's but as a regular limelight attendee I just realised I'm in one ear and out the other when it comes to local bands now. I've even bought CD's from never to be heard again bands like the cheese junkies but I'll never listen to them.

Don't think I'm thatmuch older than you.

But having said that, I've been on the beer with the Ramones, and almost booked Motorhead once. So maybe a month or two older
"local bands" post 90's? Depends on what you'd class a successful, that's a moving target these days. Buddy of mine has played with the likes of Satriani, Vai, etc. Was on the same bill as Iron Maiden a year or two back. Was given a pair of "cheap sunglasses" by Billy Gibbons at a gig.

Two belfast bands I'd love to have heard more from were Studpuppy and Unsound (at least, i think they were belfast based)

Depending on your tastes, there's bands out there. Post-covid should see a live revival soon-ish. You're probably of an age where the Rory Gallagher festival (that's not a million miles away from you) might be of interest. Side note, I helped in a minor way to get that off the ground, including building the first stage for it in the car park of Owen Roes.

M.

I was big into the NI underground scene in the early 2000s, ironically enough after I moved to Edinburgh and became involved in the Scottish underground scene. Some great bands at the time who came to nothing - Drat, Ninebar, Panda Kopanda, The Evangelists, The Dangerfields, The Feline Dream, Indigo Fury. The standout from that lot were Panda Kopanda - produced various EPs that were worthy of wider airplay beyond late night Radio Ulster niche programming. Sadly wasn't to be. One band worth checking out these days are Sea Pinks, some of the remnants of Panda.

[Murph7355]

loafer123 said:

I thought this was interesting;

https://twitter.com/DerrickBerthel1/status/1526273...

It does seem that a pragmatic approach by both sides should be able to resolve the issues.

It's what Sway has been noting for a while.

There should be even *less* checks of goods going from GB to NI, as a large chunk of it is for internal UK purposes, and the NIP allows for no checks on that stuff.

The NIP further allows for increased latitude on the amounts moving to RoI (over and above the trusted trader type arrangements....which are also in the NIP).

So the question remains, what is the problem? The EU slapping draconian measures on SPS and applying it to the island of Ireland? The EU insisting on the UK giving them details on checks that aren't needed? The UK deliberately doing checks that they don't need to? The UK determinedly using rhetoric to deflect?

Unless we can see the communications that are being issued by both parties, it's impossible to tell...only to apply our own biases in blaming one side or the other.

[Mrr T]

Murph7355 said:

It's what Sway has been noting for a while.

There should be even *less* checks of goods going from GB to NI, as a large chunk of it is for internal UK purposes, and the NIP allows for no checks on that stuff.

The NIP further allows for increased latitude on the amounts moving to RoI (over and above the trusted trader type arrangements....which are also in the NIP).

So the question remains, what is the problem? The EU slapping draconian measures on SPS and applying it to the island of Ireland? The EU insisting on the UK giving them details on checks that aren't needed? The UK deliberately doing checks that they don't need to? The UK determinedly using rhetoric to deflect?

Unless we can see the communications that are being issued by both parties, it's impossible to tell...only to apply our own biases in blaming one side or the other.

I would agreed its very unclear what the actual problem is with the NIP.

As to who is to blame I think its easier to draw conclusions. The EU has not slapped draconian checks on SPS. I am sure the checks are the same as for any such goods entering the EU. Anyway the implementation would have been agreed by the joint implementation committee (JIC). As for any data reporting again that would have been covered in the JIC. Unless I have missed something the EU has made concessions but wants the UK to implementation what was agreed in the JIC.

What would be good is if businesses would explain the problems.

As it is I still believe this about parties and not the NIP. I think my view is supported by the fact no bill is in the Queens speech.

[Mortarboard]

loafer123 said:

I thought this was interesting;

https://twitter.com/DerrickBerthel1/status/1526273...

It does seem that a pragmatic approach by both sides should be able to resolve the issues.

Great!
Except that Truss still haven't given the EU access to the UK customs systems (as previously agreed) to allow that approach to work.

M.

[Mortarboard]

Roderick Spode said:

I was big into the NI underground scene in the early 2000s, ironically enough after I moved to Edinburgh and became involved in the Scottish underground scene. Some great bands at the time who came to nothing - Drat, Ninebar, Panda Kopanda, The Evangelists, The Dangerfields, The Feline Dream, Indigo Fury. The standout from that lot were Panda Kopanda - produced various EPs that were worthy of wider airplay beyond late night Radio Ulster niche programming. Sadly wasn't to be. One band worth checking out these days are Sea Pinks, some of the remnants of Panda.

Cheers for that!

M.

[roger.mellie]

Mrr T said:

I would agreed its very unclear what the actual problem is with the NIP.

As to who is to blame I think its easier to draw conclusions. The EU has not slapped draconian checks on SPS. I am sure the checks are the same as for any such goods entering the EU. Anyway the implementation would have been agreed by the joint implementation committee (JIC). As for any data reporting again that would have been covered in the JIC. Unless I have missed something the EU has made concessions but wants the UK to implementation what was agreed in the JIC.

What would be good is if businesses would explain the problems.

As it is I still believe this about parties and not the NIP. I think my view is supported by the fact no bill is in the Queens speech.

As I'm sure you know, businesses have, I've even posted doc links on the Brexit thread. There's even the awfully named Northern Ireland Business Brexit Working Group (catchy) firing out white papers.

But you're correct in that it has become more about the politics now and that makes it harder to find a climb down. I don't just mean the local ones here for once.

FWIW the views of NI businesses that I'm aware of vary massively depending on whether they're reliant on GB imports. You'll find many complaints but the general view will be make it work rather than bin it. Some politicians are not invested in making it work.

[Mrr T]

roger.mellie said:

As I'm sure you know, businesses have, I've even posted doc links on the Brexit thread. There's even the awfully named Northern Ireland Business Brexit Working Group (catchy) firing out white papers.

But you're correct in that it has become more about the politics now and that makes it harder to find a climb down. I don't just mean the local ones here for once.

FWIW the views of NI businesses that I'm aware of vary massively depending on whether they're reliant on GB imports. You'll find many complaints but the general view will be make it work rather than bin it. Some politicians are not invested in making it work.

I have certainly seen links for the initial problems. Those would be expected. I was aware of the NIBBWG but they do not seem to have a web site and other than calling for improvements there is not much specific.

There was always going to be some new paperwork but if the trusted trader scheme works it should be limited. So trying to establish if there is a real major problem with GB NI trade and there seems little detail.

Very aware it all about politics and I suspect it more about BJ than NI.

Next few days will be interesting. If BJ does want to tear up the NIP it's likely GBP will fall. That increases UK inflation when it's already high.

[nicanary]

Slightly OT but there was a piece on the local news last night about NI Rangers supporters flocking to Seville for the Europa Cup final, many without tickets. Those shown were drunk and noisy (what a shock) . What amused me greatly was the gift shop wares in the background - ceramic crosses, icon frames and baby Jeethubs. Can't see too many being sold to the Billy Boys. Missed opportunity Miguel, you should have stocked ceramic kings on white horses and maybe some wee Lambeg drums.

[ArmaghMan]

nicanary said:

Slightly OT but there was a piece on the local news last night about NI Rangers supporters flocking to Seville for the Europa Cup final, many without tickets. Those shown were drunk and noisy (what a shock) . What amused me greatly was the gift shop wares in the background - ceramic crosses, icon frames and baby Jeethubs. Can't see too many being sold to the Billy Boys. Missed opportunity Miguel, you should have stocked ceramic kings on white horses and maybe some wee Lambeg drums.

You forgot bowler hats and wee twirly battons

[ArmaghMan]

Mrr T said:

roger.mellie said:

As I'm sure you know, businesses have, I've even posted doc links on the Brexit thread. There's even the awfully named Northern Ireland Business Brexit Working Group (catchy) firing out white papers.

But you're correct in that it has become more about the politics now and that makes it harder to find a climb down. I don't just mean the local ones here for once.

FWIW the views of NI businesses that I'm aware of vary massively depending on whether they're reliant on GB imports. You'll find many complaints but the general view will be make it work rather than bin it. Some politicians are not invested in making it work.

I have certainly seen links for the initial problems. Those would be expected. I was aware of the NIBBWG but they do not seem to have a web site and other than calling for improvements there is not much specific.

There was always going to be some new paperwork but if the trusted trader scheme works it should be limited. So trying to establish if there is a real major problem with GB NI trade and there seems little detail.

Very aware it all about politics and I suspect it more about BJ than NI.

Next few days will be interesting. If BJ does want to tear up the NIP it's likely GBP will fall. That increases UK inflation when it's already high.

Have to agree with you that this is more about Boris than NI.
Unfortunately for Boris, even a crowd of dimwits like the DUP will eventually come to see you as the serial liar you are if you lie often enough.
My gut feeling is that Boris/Truss are being " seen to do something " but Jeffrey has painted himself into such a tight corner that Boris has to actually act now.

The other problem Boris and the DUP have is that there is absolutely no cross community support for the removal of the protocol. Most nationalists don't care.
I suspecti f the EU was getting it in the ear from both sides in NI on a daily basis about the protocol they and the British would have found a solution years ago.

My guess (and it's simply a guess) is that at most 20% of the population here actually give a f@@k about the protocol.

We're too busy trying to keep our heads above water/ get a hospital appointment/ pay our bills etc. to worry about something which has next to zero impact on daily life.

As a final thought I believe SF were 100% wrong to pull the institution down over RHI.