Northern Ireland
Discussion
Mortarboard said:
Abdul Abulbul Amir said:
Spot on. Most of this can be blamed on Barnier using the issues in Ireland as some form of negotiating strategy.
If it all kicks off again Brussels is to blame.
There's a brexit thread for that.If it all kicks off again Brussels is to blame.
M.
TwigtheWonderkid said:
When was it, 1990, when Geoffrey Howe signalled the beginning of the end for Thatcher when he stood up in parliament and told her that her mindset of ill intentioned evil Europeans always working against the UK was a delusion. Here we are 33 years later, and a new generation of the deluded continue to believe that all our problems are caused by Europe.
It's a bit like the Tories still blaming Labour for all our problems, having been in power for 13 years. How long will we need to be out of the EU before we stop blaming them for our own idiocy.
Abdul Abulbul Amir said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
When was it, 1990, when Geoffrey Howe signalled the beginning of the end for Thatcher when he stood up in parliament and told her that her mindset of ill intentioned evil Europeans always working against the UK was a delusion. Here we are 33 years later, and a new generation of the deluded continue to believe that all our problems are caused by Europe.
It's a bit like the Tories still blaming Labour for all our problems, having been in power for 13 years. How long will we need to be out of the EU before we stop blaming them for our own idiocy.
Abdul Abulbul Amir said:
Spot on. Most of this can be blamed on Barnier using the issues in Ireland as some form of negotiating strategy.
If it all kicks off again Brussels is to blame.
Who could disagree with this comment. We all know Barnier was leading the UK negotiating team and decided the UK should leave the SM and CU. Or perhaps not. If it all kicks off again Brussels is to blame.
P. ONeill said:
Nigel Farage has moved on GB News to distance himself from Arlene Foster's language on Joe Biden.
That's Nigel Farage. Just take a second to think about that.
“And see that big hole over there joe that’s the hole Arlene foster is currently digging for herself”
P. ONeill - the pot calling the kettle blackThat's Nigel Farage. Just take a second to think about that.
“And see that big hole over there joe that’s the hole Arlene foster is currently digging for herself”
P. ONeill said:
Nigel Farage has moved on GB News to distance himself from Arlene Foster's language on Joe Biden.
That's Nigel Farage. Just take a second to think about that.
“And see that big hole over there joe that’s the hole Arlene foster is currently digging for herself”
The DUP playbook only has one playThat's Nigel Farage. Just take a second to think about that.
“And see that big hole over there joe that’s the hole Arlene foster is currently digging for herself”
Play to our base
That's the only play they know and truth be told it's not really working but for 100% certain they will keep right on doing it.
It looks like the middle ground in the north has had its day. SDLP and UUP have lost a lot of votes/seats/support in yesterdays local election, with Sinn Fein and making significant gains. We won’t know the full story until tomorrow as they don’t count overnight in the north, but its seems pretty disastrous for the two main parties from a generation ago.
Edited by P. ONeill on Friday 19th May 23:01
If the two governments are serious about the future of the north then joint authority should be the way forward. The days of unionist domination are well and truly over. They simply will not share power with nationalists or republicans. The Irish Sea border issue is a complete red herring, they won’t go in to Stormont under a Sinn Fein First Minister.
I am not a Sinn Fein voter but it’s fascinating to watch the rise of Irish Republicanism while at the same time see the fall of unionism happening before our eyes. They are powerless to stop it, not just because of demographics but mostly because they are rooted in the past. They truly believed that Brexit would bring a return to a hard border on the island of Ireland and everything that represents. The border is now where nature intended it to be.
A United Ireland really is possible, if not yet inevitable. The longer unionists delay a border poll the more likely they are to lose it. I sincerely hope that I am still around to see it.
Our day will come.
I am not a Sinn Fein voter but it’s fascinating to watch the rise of Irish Republicanism while at the same time see the fall of unionism happening before our eyes. They are powerless to stop it, not just because of demographics but mostly because they are rooted in the past. They truly believed that Brexit would bring a return to a hard border on the island of Ireland and everything that represents. The border is now where nature intended it to be.
A United Ireland really is possible, if not yet inevitable. The longer unionists delay a border poll the more likely they are to lose it. I sincerely hope that I am still around to see it.
Our day will come.
Seems to me that NI public is sick & tired of the DUP holding the place to ransom.
I'm in SE England, & have never been to NI. Most people I know just want shot of it all & think a united Ireland is preferential to the current impasse, including the issues with the EU. Looking at SF election results, it appears they may be on course for just that in the coming years.
I still don't understand how the politicians are allowed to sit on their hands on full pay for what seems like a sour grapes protest....
I'm in SE England, & have never been to NI. Most people I know just want shot of it all & think a united Ireland is preferential to the current impasse, including the issues with the EU. Looking at SF election results, it appears they may be on course for just that in the coming years.
I still don't understand how the politicians are allowed to sit on their hands on full pay for what seems like a sour grapes protest....
I do wonder if those in the North who would vote for a United Ireland would also be happy with the potential economic impact? Taxation in particular. For example, we’re on a car forum, so how many in NI would be happy to pay VRT and large amounts of VED every year to run basic enough vehicles?
Some form of compromise might be needed for all economic factors, and maybe the EU will step in to help in the short to medium term, but there’s going to be some almighty costs to bear. And that’s assuming the Loyalist factions don’t kick off majorly
With the distinct possibility of SF getting into power soon down here, that will probably get even worse. I’m not sure a majority in ROI will want a UI when push comes to shove
I’ve often thought a jointly funded independent state might be the answer but, given the failure of power sharing in the last decade, maybe not
Some form of compromise might be needed for all economic factors, and maybe the EU will step in to help in the short to medium term, but there’s going to be some almighty costs to bear. And that’s assuming the Loyalist factions don’t kick off majorly
With the distinct possibility of SF getting into power soon down here, that will probably get even worse. I’m not sure a majority in ROI will want a UI when push comes to shove
I’ve often thought a jointly funded independent state might be the answer but, given the failure of power sharing in the last decade, maybe not
Economic reasons will play a part for sure.
The way I see it 25% want a UI at any economic cost.
25 want to remain British at what ever Economic cost.
The other 50% are open to persuasion either way.
Economic factors will play a part but other factors will be important too.
SF is playing a blinder at reaching the50%. Queen's death, coronation, NI ladies football team tweet as examples. The whole Michelle first minister for everyone spiel. Occasionally they let the mask slip and play to their base. Justified terrorism anyone?
But they are playing a far far cuter game than the DUP. The many forms of IRA have been alienated by the vast vast majority of nationalists and republicans.
The DUP absolutely play to their base. The whole " border in the Irish Sea" bulls
t. As if anyone cares.
Of course we are different from the rest of the UK.
They make no effort to reach out/ accomodate/engage. That course of action hasn't worked ever since Thatcher sold them down the river with the Anglo-Irish agreement and its still not working.
The days of the protestant parliament for a protestant people are a distant memory.
I have thought that a border poll wouldn't happen in my lifetime ( next 20 years). Now I'm not so sure. The DUP seem to be doing everything in their power to make it a reality.
I better hold on to my Euros!!
The way I see it 25% want a UI at any economic cost.
25 want to remain British at what ever Economic cost.
The other 50% are open to persuasion either way.
Economic factors will play a part but other factors will be important too.
SF is playing a blinder at reaching the50%. Queen's death, coronation, NI ladies football team tweet as examples. The whole Michelle first minister for everyone spiel. Occasionally they let the mask slip and play to their base. Justified terrorism anyone?
But they are playing a far far cuter game than the DUP. The many forms of IRA have been alienated by the vast vast majority of nationalists and republicans.
The DUP absolutely play to their base. The whole " border in the Irish Sea" bulls
t. As if anyone cares.Of course we are different from the rest of the UK.
They make no effort to reach out/ accomodate/engage. That course of action hasn't worked ever since Thatcher sold them down the river with the Anglo-Irish agreement and its still not working.
The days of the protestant parliament for a protestant people are a distant memory.
I have thought that a border poll wouldn't happen in my lifetime ( next 20 years). Now I'm not so sure. The DUP seem to be doing everything in their power to make it a reality.
I better hold on to my Euros!!
I think I will be keeping an eye on the Fermanagh and Omagh council over the coming term.
Sinn Fein have an outright majority on that council, with 21 of 40 seats I think. Their decision making on that council will be interesting for how they are selling their 'first minister for all' slogan.
If they put their big boy pants on and manage that council appropriately, it could work well for them. There is no doubt that as soon as they step out of line with unionists that it would be amplified as a wider view of what Sinn Fein stand for and that they can't be trusted by unionists.
Overall though, its possibly a great opportunity for the party if they play their cards right. If they don't, it could maybe set them back a bit.
I've never voted for Sinn Fein and doubt I ever will, but I would still like to see them as a progressive, modern party and put a bit of daylight between them and the DUP, who could be left looking a bit backward in comparison.
Doug Beattie IMO has the right strategy for unionism, but its the voters that are the problem, rather than the party (as bizarre as that sounds)
Sinn Fein have an outright majority on that council, with 21 of 40 seats I think. Their decision making on that council will be interesting for how they are selling their 'first minister for all' slogan.
If they put their big boy pants on and manage that council appropriately, it could work well for them. There is no doubt that as soon as they step out of line with unionists that it would be amplified as a wider view of what Sinn Fein stand for and that they can't be trusted by unionists.
Overall though, its possibly a great opportunity for the party if they play their cards right. If they don't, it could maybe set them back a bit.
I've never voted for Sinn Fein and doubt I ever will, but I would still like to see them as a progressive, modern party and put a bit of daylight between them and the DUP, who could be left looking a bit backward in comparison.
Doug Beattie IMO has the right strategy for unionism, but its the voters that are the problem, rather than the party (as bizarre as that sounds)
ArmaghMan said:
Economic reasons will play a part for sure.
The way I see it 25% want a UI at any economic cost.
25 want to remain British at what ever Economic cost.
The other 50% are open to persuasion either way.
I dont think its anywhere near 25% want a united ireland at any economic cost. Being all misty eyed about it only carries people so far - I think if the consequences were spelled out to them there would be quite a few back away from that view. The way I see it 25% want a UI at any economic cost.
25 want to remain British at what ever Economic cost.
The other 50% are open to persuasion either way.
25% "wanting" to remain British - hmmm. possibly. The unionist hard liners / strong unionist view. Of course "at any cost" means pretty much staying as is.
50% open to persuasion - i doubt it. Most of those are happy with being part of the UK and know nothing else and would take an awful lot of persuading otherwise.
ArmaghMan said:
Economic factors will play a part but other factors will be important too.
SF is playing a blinder at reaching the50%. Queen's death, coronation, NI ladies football team tweet as examples. The whole Michelle first minister for everyone spiel. Occasionally they let the mask slip and play to their base. Justified terrorism anyone?
But they are playing a far far cuter game than the DUP. The many forms of IRA have been alienated by the vast vast majority of nationalists and republicans.
Yup. Absolutely. Very much talking the talk.SF is playing a blinder at reaching the50%. Queen's death, coronation, NI ladies football team tweet as examples. The whole Michelle first minister for everyone spiel. Occasionally they let the mask slip and play to their base. Justified terrorism anyone?
But they are playing a far far cuter game than the DUP. The many forms of IRA have been alienated by the vast vast majority of nationalists and republicans.
ArmaghMan said:
The DUP absolutely play to their base. The whole " border in the Irish Sea" bullst. As if anyone cares.
Of course we are different from the rest of the UK.
They make no effort to reach out/ accomodate/engage. That course of action hasn't worked ever since Thatcher sold them down the river with the Anglo-Irish agreement and its still not working.
The days of the protestant parliament for a protestant people are a distant memory.
Agreed. They wont sit in Stormont with SF as the largest party and the irish sea border is a convenient excuse. They should aways have played the inclusivity card and highlighted all the (perceived) benefits of being part of the UK. Gave people no reason to consider a UI. But no, they're a bunch of glum faced ft. As if anyone cares.Of course we are different from the rest of the UK.
They make no effort to reach out/ accomodate/engage. That course of action hasn't worked ever since Thatcher sold them down the river with the Anglo-Irish agreement and its still not working.
The days of the protestant parliament for a protestant people are a distant memory.
ks in grey suits who have become the No, No, No Party.ArmaghMan said:
I have thought that a border poll wouldn't happen in my lifetime ( next 20 years). Now I'm not so sure. The DUP seem to be doing everything in their power to make it a reality.
I better hold on to my Euros!!
I think they pretty much know they cant get a majority now, and IF theres going to be a united ireland they'll quite cheerfully run the country in to the ground rather than accept that. I fully expect there to be "there'll be trouble on the streets of belfast" and the paramilitaries to be stirred up again at the first mention of either (a) them being forced in to some sort of parliament or (b) any discussion around a UI or a vote. I better hold on to my Euros!!
And IF there is a united ireland, as per the comments made some pages back, we'd be in the realms of civil unrest which Ireland dont have the resources to quell and vast sums of money required to make it all work, which ireland dont have.
And of course there is the other question, would the population of Ireland want us? That would have to be voted on too - and how many are going to want to see that amount of economic unrest as any transition could take years to decades to complete.
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