Northern Ireland
Discussion
Eric Mc said:
And the question is, why is it a basket case and what is being done to get rid of the basket?
I'll give a considered answer later, Eric, but off the bat and cynically - but truthfully - I'd say:- Throwing money at public sector employment. A large minority of those employees couldn't work in the private sector even if they could find a boss naive enough to take them on
- And, something of a corollary, failing completely to trust the private sector - many of whom are routinely bringing back best practice from every corner of the world, having left Northern Ireland either once a week for London, or having moved thousands of miles for years at a time before returning. In my line of work, in the private sector, our work for the public sector is governed entirely by rules and regulations dreamt up and managed exclusively by people much, much worse at their jobs than I and my colleagues. It'd be hilarious were it not wasting so much public money under the guise of saving public money
- Encouraging the growth of call centres. Yes, you'll keep somebody off the dole / out of the public sector, but at the expense of 16 year olds killing off nascent careers left, right and centre
- Throwing money at 'ex' paramilitary 'community leaders' to pacify them
Ultimately, though, and to coin a tired old phrase - the people deserve those elected, and that goes doubly for Northern Ireland.
Isn't the problem that the Northern Ireland politicians are still fighting the "wars" of the 60s and 70s rather than fighting for ALL of the people of Northern Ireland?
The Irish Republic had a similar problem for decades and it was only in the 1960s that they began to concentrate properly on things that REALLY mattered to their constituents such as jobs and the economy. Prior to that, they were still fighting the Civil War of the 1920s.
The Irish Republic had a similar problem for decades and it was only in the 1960s that they began to concentrate properly on things that REALLY mattered to their constituents such as jobs and the economy. Prior to that, they were still fighting the Civil War of the 1920s.
Eric Mc said:
And the question is, why is it a basket case and what is being done to get rid of the basket?
There have been some good posts on this thread. Realistic summaries of the economy of N. Ireland. The problem is something called democracy. The basket case cannot be dumped because if there's one thing the British value above anything else, it's the principle of one man/one vote. Of course the British public would get rid if they could, despite cries of "what about our sacrifice at the Somme?", but they will always respect the democratic vote of the Referendum.
F*** knows what will happen to the "economy" in the Province if Westminster ever gets round to serious cutbacks in the public sector. What has happened here so far is just a drop in the ocean.
Eric Mc said:
Isn't the problem that the Northern Ireland politicians are still fighting the "wars" of the 60s and 70s rather than fighting for ALL of the people of Northern Ireland?
The Irish Republic had a similar problem for decades and it was only in the 1960s that they began to concentrate properly on things that REALLY mattered to their constituents such as jobs and the economy. Prior to that, they were still fighting the Civil War of the 1920s.
As I alluded to above, though, a hugely significant component of the electorate don't care about jobs and the economy. It's actually in their interests to return DUP / Sinn Fein to power in order that the money keeps rolling in to keep them in the style to which they've become accustomed.The Irish Republic had a similar problem for decades and it was only in the 1960s that they began to concentrate properly on things that REALLY mattered to their constituents such as jobs and the economy. Prior to that, they were still fighting the Civil War of the 1920s.
Effective governance and all that should come with it - difficult decisions, the end of money for nothing, a focus on private sector prosperity and the hard work that entails - is anathema to their disposition.
Eric Mc said:
As I have said before, I would hope that the old issues were fading as the next generation come on stream.
That's what happened south of the border - eventually.
I take your point. I suppose I'm wondering aloud whether true sectarianism - which should fade in time, as you posit - will give way to sectarianism as a flag of convenience, facilitating the benefits / handout culture I noted before.That's what happened south of the border - eventually.
Para-militarism in Northern Ireland is now (largely) a flag of convenience for gangsterism, so it wouldn't be without precedent.
Ructions said:
BlueHave said:
She is just Gerry Adams puppet, every word that comes out of her mouth is from untouchable Gerry.
The main point is that the sort of people that vote for Sinn Fein are nothing more than cretins and the same goes for the DUP, both a collective backward looking individuals. They have more in common than separates them.
The progressive middle ground such as Alliance are barely given a mention but in all the debates they basically wiped the floor with both.
However when it comes to election time the sectarian and bigoted rhetoric rises to the top and both sides put all their energy into blaming the other side for scandals and the like.
As for a United Ireland
, the way Sinn Fein talk you would think that everyone wanted it to happen. In fact it's less than 30% both in Northern Ireland and in Republic.
The welfare bill for Northern Ireland particularly in West Belfast is at least eight times the amount in the Republic. 850 families in West Belfast claim the full benefit amount of £26,000. In the Republic they would get absolutely nowhere near that amount.
A Willie Frazeresque rant there, though you should have mentioned those pesky Mooslims as well.The main point is that the sort of people that vote for Sinn Fein are nothing more than cretins and the same goes for the DUP, both a collective backward looking individuals. They have more in common than separates them.
The progressive middle ground such as Alliance are barely given a mention but in all the debates they basically wiped the floor with both.
However when it comes to election time the sectarian and bigoted rhetoric rises to the top and both sides put all their energy into blaming the other side for scandals and the like.
As for a United Ireland
, the way Sinn Fein talk you would think that everyone wanted it to happen. In fact it's less than 30% both in Northern Ireland and in Republic.The welfare bill for Northern Ireland particularly in West Belfast is at least eight times the amount in the Republic. 850 families in West Belfast claim the full benefit amount of £26,000. In the Republic they would get absolutely nowhere near that amount.
Edited by BlueHave on Saturday 4th March 22:20
I'm sure you can back up some of your claims with some stats? How many of those 850 families in west Belfast are in the greater Shankill area?
You do realise that social welfare payments are approx 3 times those in the UK per person?
The fact is that Sinn Fein keep going on about equality and that it's not about orange and green issues.
As someone who is viewing from the middle ground everything they are proposing with the exception of gay marriage is not equality but completely leaning on the green end of the scale.
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