Making Tax Digital
Discussion
Funny how those who ARE talking about it in the media don't seem to see it that way.
We shall see what is in store today or tomorrow. Time is running out for HMRC to get this statement out. If they don't do it today or tomorrow, it will not be able to insert the legislation changes necessary into the March 2017 Budget. That is why the concrete proposals (following the foreshortened consultation period) need to be announced in the next 36 hours.
Otherwise MTD is a dead duck - at least for the next 12 months.
We shall see what is in store today or tomorrow. Time is running out for HMRC to get this statement out. If they don't do it today or tomorrow, it will not be able to insert the legislation changes necessary into the March 2017 Budget. That is why the concrete proposals (following the foreshortened consultation period) need to be announced in the next 36 hours.
Otherwise MTD is a dead duck - at least for the next 12 months.
As a matter of interest - today I am running monthly payrolls. Normally, within seconds of submitting the details to HMRC I get an acknowledgement e-mail confirming that the submission has been made. This morning it looks like their computers are unable to send out these e-mails - perhaps due to the annual Self Assessment rush.
I'll be very, very annoyed if HMRC starts issuing penalties for non-submission of payroll information purely because their system can't cope.
I noticed over the weekend that the e-mail confirmation of the Self Assessment submissions I made took hours before they came through.
If they cannot cope with fairly mundane stuff like payrolls every month, what chance do they have with dealing with 10 million plus submissions of every single transaction of every single sole trader/partnership/partner/landlord every three months?
It does make me wonder
I'll be very, very annoyed if HMRC starts issuing penalties for non-submission of payroll information purely because their system can't cope.
I noticed over the weekend that the e-mail confirmation of the Self Assessment submissions I made took hours before they came through.
If they cannot cope with fairly mundane stuff like payrolls every month, what chance do they have with dealing with 10 million plus submissions of every single transaction of every single sole trader/partnership/partner/landlord every three months?
It does make me wonder
Alucidnation said:
I think this is getting blown out of proportion.
I guess the reason that it isn't on the news much is because many probably wouldn't see it as a problem.
Too few people pay enough attention to what the tax gatherers do and how they operate. I suppose right now it's all done at source for most so they don't even think about it...but wait until more and more are caught in the self assessment net etc.I guess the reason that it isn't on the news much is because many probably wouldn't see it as a problem.
I think Eric's spot on about his concerns, even though I suspect the end result to most people's back pockets won't be any different.
HMRC are doing what a lot of large organisations do...they have identified a problem (one presumes people not paying the right amount of tax) and feel that a "system" is the way to resolve it. I'm surprised they haven't mentioned an "app" (the solution to everything) and how everyone will be able to submit returns via Twitter or Facebook
As someone who works in technical consultancy, systems are rarely the thing that need the most/primary attention. Process, and the people applying that process nearly always are - a "better" system cannot overcome shortfalls in those two areas.
The tax code doubling since 2007 is outrageous. HMRC should be forbidden from fecking about with anything like MTD until they get that under control.
They have mentioned "apps" - quite a lot actually. Of course, they themselves won't be creating any apps. They are expecting the commercial software sector to come up with these.
The meeting that was scheduled for this morning was to be with these very companies - presumably so they could thrash out what these apps will need to do and , most importantly for these third party suppliers, where the responsibility for security of the data lies. HMRC has been adamant that any breaches of security of data being submitted to them via these apps will not be their responsibility. This has not enamoured their plans to potential app suppliers.
You can see how this is turning into a bugger's muddle of the highest order.
No wonder this morning's meeting was cancelled.
The meeting that was scheduled for this morning was to be with these very companies - presumably so they could thrash out what these apps will need to do and , most importantly for these third party suppliers, where the responsibility for security of the data lies. HMRC has been adamant that any breaches of security of data being submitted to them via these apps will not be their responsibility. This has not enamoured their plans to potential app suppliers.
You can see how this is turning into a bugger's muddle of the highest order.
No wonder this morning's meeting was cancelled.
Eric Mc said:
They have mentioned "apps" - quite a lot actually. Of course, they themselves won't be creating any apps. They are expecting the commercial software sector to come up with these.
The meeting that was scheduled for this morning was to be with these very companies - presumably so they could thrash out what these apps will need to do and , most importantly for these third party suppliers, where the responsibility for security of the data lies. HMRC has been adamant that any breaches of security of data being submitted to them via these apps will not be their responsibility. This has not enamoured their plans to potential app suppliers.
You can see how this is turning into a bugger's muddle of the highest order.
No wonder this morning's meeting was cancelled.
Maybe HMRC is no longer fit fir purpose like so many government departments. Perhaps the art grads outnumber the number crunchers now. After 1997 every government department was stuffed to the gunnels with people who shouldn't have been there, meanwhile the demotivated grafters then leave, with the results we now see. The meeting that was scheduled for this morning was to be with these very companies - presumably so they could thrash out what these apps will need to do and , most importantly for these third party suppliers, where the responsibility for security of the data lies. HMRC has been adamant that any breaches of security of data being submitted to them via these apps will not be their responsibility. This has not enamoured their plans to potential app suppliers.
You can see how this is turning into a bugger's muddle of the highest order.
No wonder this morning's meeting was cancelled.
What did you actually look up?
Nobody knows for certain the detail they want but all the talks I've attended have emphasised that they will want details of individual transactions.
Maybe they will back off some of the excessive detail they originally mentioned but they haven't clarified anything properly yet - which is pretty disgraceful.
Nobody knows for certain the detail they want but all the talks I've attended have emphasised that they will want details of individual transactions.
Maybe they will back off some of the excessive detail they originally mentioned but they haven't clarified anything properly yet - which is pretty disgraceful.
ash73 said:
Nobody bothered answering so I looked it up. The local accounting software will record transactions but only upload a quarterly summary to HMRC. It's nothing like a bank account, it's massively aggregated; why the fuss they can't access transactions if they haven't been uploaded?
I must be getting the wrong end of the stick. It sounds like the interface will make it easier and I just have to press the submit button four times a year. Publish the API and a spreadsheet template, job done.
I'm sure it's not that simple
Except HMRC haven't actually told anyone what will be needed and what will be uploaded. If it is as simple as you suggest then they are effectively already getting that info from VAT returns so why bother at all?I must be getting the wrong end of the stick. It sounds like the interface will make it easier and I just have to press the submit button four times a year. Publish the API and a spreadsheet template, job done.
I'm sure it's not that simple
It ain't - that's one of the problems. Iris, one of the biggest suppliers of software in the accounting world has said that it will not start any development work on MTD related software until HMRC sets out clearly what it is they actually want from everyone.
The Chartered Institute of taxation made this statement a week or so ago -
CIOT president Bill Dodwell commented: “digitalisation and quarterly reporting will be a huge change affecting millions of taxpayers. With a change this big it is more important to do it right than to do it quickly.
“So the Treasury Select Cmmittee is right to call for a delay in the project’s implementation. Rushing it through to deliver by April 2018 is just too short a timescale. There are hundreds of different providers of accounting software – in many cases adapted for specific industries and trades. Right now we have no idea how many of these will be ready and tested in time.
“The introduction of Making Tax Digital should be deferred for at least a year to allow a smoother and more effective transition to digital record keeping, giving businesses sufficient time to prepare for the significant administrative, technological and financial implications associated with the move to digital accounting.
Dodwell added: “The Treasury Select Committee is right to call for comprehensive pilots of the proposed system. There has been some limited piloting to date, but they need to be more extensive, with a range of taxpayers and tax advisers, and especially with those who naturally struggle with IT and firms with complex systems that need to be adapted. The pilots need to cover the whole reporting cycle and address behavioural issues rather than simply digital functioning. Pilots will need to build up gradually, bringing in a wider range of users.
“We are also pleased that the committee agrees with us that the threshold for Making Tax Digital and quarterly reporting should be raised substantially from the proposed £10,000. A consensus is growing that the VAT threshold of £83,000 would be a more sensible cut-off point.
“We think HMRC will need to consult thoroughly with businesses, their tax advisers and professional bodies and relevant charities in the period up to full implementation to ensure it works for HMRC, taxpayers and their representatives.”
The Chartered Institute of taxation made this statement a week or so ago -
CIOT president Bill Dodwell commented: “digitalisation and quarterly reporting will be a huge change affecting millions of taxpayers. With a change this big it is more important to do it right than to do it quickly.
“So the Treasury Select Cmmittee is right to call for a delay in the project’s implementation. Rushing it through to deliver by April 2018 is just too short a timescale. There are hundreds of different providers of accounting software – in many cases adapted for specific industries and trades. Right now we have no idea how many of these will be ready and tested in time.
“The introduction of Making Tax Digital should be deferred for at least a year to allow a smoother and more effective transition to digital record keeping, giving businesses sufficient time to prepare for the significant administrative, technological and financial implications associated with the move to digital accounting.
Dodwell added: “The Treasury Select Committee is right to call for comprehensive pilots of the proposed system. There has been some limited piloting to date, but they need to be more extensive, with a range of taxpayers and tax advisers, and especially with those who naturally struggle with IT and firms with complex systems that need to be adapted. The pilots need to cover the whole reporting cycle and address behavioural issues rather than simply digital functioning. Pilots will need to build up gradually, bringing in a wider range of users.
“We are also pleased that the committee agrees with us that the threshold for Making Tax Digital and quarterly reporting should be raised substantially from the proposed £10,000. A consensus is growing that the VAT threshold of £83,000 would be a more sensible cut-off point.
“We think HMRC will need to consult thoroughly with businesses, their tax advisers and professional bodies and relevant charities in the period up to full implementation to ensure it works for HMRC, taxpayers and their representatives.”
Eric Mc said:
It ain't - that's one of the problems. Iris, one of the biggest suppliers of software in the accounting world has said that it will not start any development work on MTD related software until HMRC sets out clearly what it is they actually want from everyone.
Well, HMRC better give Iris plenty of time to make it work when they do, because we use Iris tax software which went cloud based this year, and they made a right horlicks of it I can tell you!Eric Mc said:
Last day for HMRC to make their announcement.
An if they say nothing today what happens....dealing with government regulators in my day job I know they make mistakes all the time but simply brush over them the impact is on the 3rd party who has to follow the poor guidance not on them.ash73 said:
Nobody bothered answering so I looked it up. The local accounting software will record transactions but only upload a quarterly summary to HMRC. It's nothing like a bank account, it's massively aggregated; why the fuss they can't access transactions if they haven't been uploaded?
I must be getting the wrong end of the stick. It sounds like the interface will make it easier and I just have to press the submit button four times a year. Publish the API and a spreadsheet template, job done.
I'm sure it's not that simple
I've just skim read the consultation response and this is exactly what it looks like to me. They want us to keep "digital records" and then send them a summary quarterly. It explicitly talks about converting spreadsheets and csv files into submissions.I must be getting the wrong end of the stick. It sounds like the interface will make it easier and I just have to press the submit button four times a year. Publish the API and a spreadsheet template, job done.
I'm sure it's not that simple
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