Making Tax Digital

[98elise]

red_slr said:

They already are their share price has gone from c.350 to 700 in 2 years.

All I can say is I am glad I will be retiring in 4-5 years.

I'm aiming for 2. IR35, the prospect of Labour in power, and this sort of crap mean I spent the last few years structing my life for retirement. Working for yourself is not worth the hassle these days.

[Sylvaforever]

98elise said:

I'm aiming for 2. IR35, the prospect of Labour in power, and this sort of crap mean I spent the last few years structing my life for retirement. [bWorking for yourself is not worth the hassle these days.[/b]

Yes they have driven the final nail in the coffin.

Retirement after this gig finishes in November is looking better than ever now.

And it's come about under successive tory administrations.

That is the most telling fact.

[plasticpig]

Eric Mc said:

Update -

more waffly information released by HMRC

MTD for VAT coming in for all returns after April 2019 (1 year and 5 months from now)

Excel will now NOT be allowed

The current VAT Gateway system is being discontinued

Traders MUST BUY (not yet invented) commercial software to do the new style returns. The Free software suggestion made by HMRC seems to have been quietly forgotten.

The new VAT returns will contain summary details of all underlying transactions making up the total s in the VAT return boxes i.e. the VAT return is no longer going to be a submission of totals only

The software will allow HMRC to send stuff electronically to the trader - such as penalty notifications and warnings etc

AT the moment 90% of VAT returns are filed using the Government Gateway boxes only - i.e. the underlying data is not sourced directly from any software the trader might be using. The boxes are completed manually by either the trader or his/her agent This will mean that all traders must acquire new software to comply.

HMRC has not outlined any information as to how or what agents can do in regard to making MTD VAT submissions.

Edited by Eric Mc on Sunday 17th September 11:03

Their will be free software available. The user might have to click through some adverts and it will be pretty limited in functionality but it will be free and be fully compliant. It will undoubtedly include an option to import data from Excel.

[Eric Mc]

plasticpig said:

Their will be free software available. The user might have to click through some adverts and it will be pretty limited in functionality but it will be free and be fully compliant. It will undoubtedly include an option to import data from Excel.

HMRC stated last week that there will be no fee software for the initial VAT version of MTD. Free software was always intended for the tiny traders only - those with turnovers of £10,000 or less. The accounting profession and other interested parties fought hard to have MTD restricted to those over the VAT threshold. This bastardised version of MTD for VAT is partly in response to this pressure

What HMRC has not clarified anywhere is what happens for traders who are VAT registered but whose turnover is below the compulsory registration threshold. There are many smaller traders who are registered for VAT even though their sales have not reached the point where they would be legally obliged to register.

At the moment, it seems that they will also have to register for MTD VAT even though they are below the supposed turnover threshold for MTD.

The only alternative would be for HMRC to keep two separate VAT submission systems operating in parallel - the current simple and easy Government Gateway system and the new more sophisticated and detailed MTD version.

I don't think HMRC wants to do this but, as ever, they have failed to put any real detail into any of their statements.

[PurpleMoonlight]

Do you file VAT returns for clients Eric?

As well as my Ltd I have to do 20 odd VAT returns for pension schemes.

[Eric Mc]

PurpleMoonlight said:

Do you file VAT returns for clients Eric?

As well as my Ltd I have to do 20 odd VAT returns for pension schemes.

Only a small number. I have always encouraged my clients to file their own wherever possible.

Another area not clarified by HMRC is how agents fit into the new VAT MTD filing system.

Eric

[PurpleMoonlight]

Hopefully the VAT programs will be similar to PAYE programs and facilitate multiple businesses.

[Eric Mc]

Nothing is clear yet. The PAYE RTI system is the inspiration for HMRC's progression to "!real time" submitting for other taxes. The problem is that other taxes, based on figures gleaned from accounting and book-keeping principles are always going to be more complex than submitting salary and employment information.

[bga]

PurpleMoonlight said:

I bet the likes of Sage are delighted.

I work for an accountancy tool provider. It's been widely expected that direct excel upload would be dropped and I think all providers will offer a solution.

It will likely be a race to the bottom for that particular service, I don't think it will be particularly profitable but will give opportunity to offer other services that can be of value. This is how a lot of the accountancy market are seeing it, despite not necessarily being massively supportive of MTD.

[plasticpig]

Eric Mc said:

HMRC stated last week that there will be no fee software for the initial VAT version of MTD. Free software was always intended for the tiny traders only - those with turnovers of £10,000 or less. The accounting profession and other interested parties fought hard to have MTD restricted to those over the VAT threshold. This bastardised version of MTD for VAT is partly in response to this pressure.

Well HMRC are wrong then. They may not provide one but I know of at least one cloud based accounting solution will be offering MTD for free. It's size limited by total ledger size but that should cover quite a few of the tiny traders.

Taking data from an Excel template and submitting it to HMRC is not a massive development exercise.

[Eric Mc]

plasticpig said:

Eric Mc said:

HMRC stated last week that there will be no fee software for the initial VAT version of MTD. Free software was always intended for the tiny traders only - those with turnovers of £10,000 or less. The accounting profession and other interested parties fought hard to have MTD restricted to those over the VAT threshold. This bastardised version of MTD for VAT is partly in response to this pressure.

Well HMRC are wrong then. They may not provide one but I know of at least one cloud based accounting solution will be offering MTD for free. It's size limited by total ledger size but that should cover quite a few of the tiny traders.

Taking data from an Excel template and submitting it to HMRC is not a massive development exercise.

Do you work in the world of software?

[mjb1]

plasticpig said:

Well HMRC are wrong then. They may not provide one but I know of at least one cloud based accounting solution will be offering MTD for free. It's size limited by total ledger size but that should cover quite a few of the tiny traders.

Taking data from an Excel template and submitting it to HMRC is not a massive development exercise.

Name it/them then please? And what sort of ledger size are we taking about?

Wonder if the suppliers vat number will have to be entered for all purchases reclaimed? That will be a pain in the arse.

[bga]

The actual MTD submission is trivial. The work going into validating inputs, providing meaningful error messages etc is less so. Offering a tool, however basic, for non-accountancy professionals to use is harder than one where the audience knows what they are talkin about.

[plasticpig]

Eric Mc said:

Do you work in the world of software?

Yes. I am responsible for making my companies software MTD compliant

[plasticpig]

mjb1 said:

Name it/them then please? And what sort of ledger size are we taking about?

Wonder if the suppliers vat number will have to be entered for all purchases reclaimed? That will be a pain in the arse.

https://www.quickfile.co.uk is one. Think they are free for up to 1000 ledger entries a year.

[Eric Mc]

plasticpig said:

Eric Mc said:

Do you work in the world of software?

Yes. I am responsible for making my companies software MTD compliant

I thought so.

When you say "companies", do you mean you are dealing with many limited comapnies (plural) or are you referring to one business only and really meant to say "company's".

And is your "company" a firm of accountants or do you work in industry?

Just trying to get a feel for your background.

People who are restricted to one organisation which may be computer savvy don't always have a good or realistic view of the real world where there are hundreds of thousands of people out there who are, in reality, quite scared of IT.

Edited by Eric Mc on Sunday 17th September 15:12

[plasticpig]

bga said:

The actual MTD submission is trivial. The work going into validating inputs, providing meaningful error messages etc is less so. Offering a tool, however basic, for non-accountancy professionals to use is harder than one where the audience knows what they are talkin about.

That's where the revenue stream is for free software though. When the user gets an error message and the it won't submit they have to ring the premium rate support line.

Not a business model I have ever tried but I have looked at it before now.

[Rovinghawk]

Eric Mc said:

What HMRC has not clarified anywhere is what happens for traders who are VAT registered but whose turnover is below the compulsory registration threshold. There are many smaller traders who are registered for VAT even though their sales have not reached the point where they would be legally obliged to register.

In my case it's very simple- I'll deregister. It's barely worth it as things are- as soon as it gets harder I won't bother.

It won't take too many changes for my business to no longer be worth the effort so I'll give up work. This sort of thing will be great for the economy.

[Eric Mc]

plasticpig said:

bga said:

The actual MTD submission is trivial. The work going into validating inputs, providing meaningful error messages etc is less so. Offering a tool, however basic, for non-accountancy professionals to use is harder than one where the audience knows what they are talkin about.

That's where the revenue stream is for free software though. When the user gets an error message and the it won't submit they have to ring the premium rate support line.

Not a business model I have ever tried but I have looked at it before now.

I don't think governments should be tasked with reviving an economy by creating more bureaucracy for ordinary businesses to deal with. It's a bit like asking the crew to put more deckchairs out on the promenade deck of the Titanic whilst it's sinking.

[PurpleMoonlight]

Eric Mc said:

I don't think governments should be tasked with reviving an economy by creating more bureaucracy for ordinary businesses to deal with. It's a bit like asking the crew to put more deckchairs out on the promenade deck of the Titanic whilst it's sinking.

I suspect their main purpose is to collect more tax.