Making Tax Digital

[Eric Mc]

jammy-git said:

Also, why the feck is this in NP&E?!

Because it was quite big news when it was announced in its original form. The version we have now is substantially watered down on what was originally proposed. The original proposal affected at least 10 million tax payers - most who were not involved in any sort of business activity.

It was so big I didn't want it lost in the "Business" or "Finance" forums as it covered much more than that.

[Dromedary66]

jammy-git said:

I guess asking whether anyone would be interested in a free Excel workbook that could submit simple VAT MTD return would be a bit of a stupid question?

I would be.

[Eric Mc]

HMRC have stated clearly they will not accept any data off Excel - unless it is passed through some conversion software first.
Don't expect any movement on this.

[plasticpig]

Eric Mc said:

HMRC have stated clearly they will not accept any data off Excel - unless it is passed through some conversion software first.
Don't expect any movement on this.

Why does the VAT notice clearly state:

HMRC said:

3.2 .3 .1 API-enabled spreadsheets
These are spreadsheets that incorporate relevant Making Tax Digital APIs. They can either:

-combine with accounting software to submit the required VAT information digitally to HMRC, and allow information to be sent back to the business digitally from HMRC

-be used to keep digital records and then directly submit the required VAT information digitally to HMRC

then?

[jammy-git]

Eric Mc said:

jammy-git said:

Also, why the feck is this in NP&E?!

Because it was quite big news when it was announced in its original form. The version we have now is substantially watered down on what was originally proposed. The original proposal affected at least 10 million tax payers - most who were not involved in any sort of business activity.

It was so big I didn't want it lost in the "Business" or "Finance" forums as it covered much more than that.

But it used to be in Business up till a day or two ago didn't it?

[Rovinghawk]

jammy-git said:

Also, why the feck is this in NP&E?!

I'm very grateful that it is. I suspect others might feel the same way.

[JagLover]

plasticpig said:

Eric Mc said:

HMRC have stated clearly they will not accept any data off Excel - unless it is passed through some conversion software first.
Don't expect any movement on this.

Why does the VAT notice clearly state:

HMRC said:

3.2 .3 .1 API-enabled spreadsheets
These are spreadsheets that incorporate relevant Making Tax Digital APIs. They can either:

-combine with accounting software to submit the required VAT information digitally to HMRC, and allow information to be sent back to the business digitally from HMRC

-be used to keep digital records and then directly submit the required VAT information digitally to HMRC

then?

I asked our VAT specialist back in early Spring and he said then that the Revenue allow excel records still but there are no 3rd party products currently available to submit this to HM R&C.

I thing that is the confusion in that this is theoretically possible but not practically so as yet.

[Eric Mc]

When the system begins to operate on 1 April 2019, it will not accept data directly from Excel (or any other spreadsheet style software). It will have to go through a "translation" process tyo make it acceptable at HMRC's end.

That is the way HMRC has explained it.

Initially, they did not want records to be maintained on spreadsheets at all - and they may very well implement this restriction eventually. It's what they really want.

[markcoznottz]

I'm more interested in the abolition of class 2 nic for the self employed . It's been postponed till next year, but it's another change with massive repercussions for low paid, part time and gig workers etc. From what can be understood, anyone earning less than £6205 will have to pay an extra! £600 a year nic to qualify for the state pension and 'other benefits'.

[Eric Mc]

It's a separate matter so shouldn't really be discussed on this specific thread. Having said that, the abolition of the seemingly innocuous Class 2 NI Contribution is proving immensely difficult and has already been postponed twice.

[plasticpig]

JagLover said:

I asked our VAT specialist back in early Spring and he said then that the Revenue allow excel records still but there are no 3rd party products currently available to submit this to HM R&C.

I thing that is the confusion in that this is theoretically possible but not practically so as yet.

This is hardly a surprise as the API is not been released for general use and is still in the beta testing stage. From a software development perspective reading the contents of 10 cells from an Excel sheet (9 Vat boxes + VAT Number) and using the MTDVat API to send the information to HMRC is a trivial exercise.

[jammy-git]

plasticpig said:

This is hardly a surprise as the API is not been released for general use and is still in the beta testing stage. From a software development perspective reading the contents of 10 cells from an Excel sheet (9 Vat boxes + VAT Number) and using the MTDVat API to send the information to HMRC is a trivial exercise.

Exactly this. I think what Eric has been told is that it is not/won't be possible to upload an Excel spreadsheet as your submission. However I can't see why HMRC would not accept an Excel VBA macro reading the contents of certain cells on a spreadsheet and then being posted via their API using that VBA macro.

[Eric Mc]

jammy-git said:

plasticpig said:

This is hardly a surprise as the API is not been released for general use and is still in the beta testing stage. From a software development perspective reading the contents of 10 cells from an Excel sheet (9 Vat boxes + VAT Number) and using the MTDVat API to send the information to HMRC is a trivial exercise.

Exactly this. I think what Eric has been told is that it is not/won't be possible to upload an Excel spreadsheet as your submission. However I can't see why HMRC would not accept an Excel VBA macro reading the contents of certain cells on a spreadsheet and then being posted via their API using that VBA macro.

Tell that to your average small shopkeeper and see what reaction you get.

[jammy-git]

I wasn't suggesting that the average shopkeeper try and write an API integration in a VBA macro. Hence why I asked whether anyone would be interested. As PP says, it's not a difficult thing to create for someone who knows VBA.

[Eric Mc]

jammy-git said:

I wasn't suggesting that the average shopkeeper try and write an API integration in a VBA macro. Hence why I asked whether anyone would be interested. As PP says, it's not a difficult thing to create for someone who knows VBA.

That's the problem. It's making a fairly straightforward process complicated for those who know nothing (and don't particulary want to learn) about IT issues.

They are trying to turn small businesses that are tough enough just to keep going without these additional burdens and costs.

[markcoznottz]

Eric Mc said:

jammy-git said:

I wasn't suggesting that the average shopkeeper try and write an API integration in a VBA macro. Hence why I asked whether anyone would be interested. As PP says, it's not a difficult thing to create for someone who knows VBA.

That's the problem. It's making a fairly straightforward process complicated for those who know nothing (and don't particulary want to learn) about IT issues.

They are trying to turn small businesses that are tough enough just to keep going without these additional burdens and costs.

What about gig workers, part timers etc. I can see one thing happening as clear as day, disguised employment/ agency staff, the cost will be passed on to them, they are already charged for liability insurance per week etc.

[Rovinghawk]

Eric Mc said:

They are trying to turn small businesses that are tough enough just to keep going without these additional burdens and costs.

Nail. Head.

[markcoznottz]

Eric Mc said:

Dromedary66 said:

Would be nice if HMRC released a software package like their Basic PAYE tools but for VAT.

But that would cost the Exchequer. The whole point of MTD is NOT to spend government money.

Stop wasting money on st then. HS2, foreign aid, modern art for hospitals etc etc.

[Eric Mc]

markcoznottz said:

Eric Mc said:

Dromedary66 said:

Would be nice if HMRC released a software package like their Basic PAYE tools but for VAT.

But that would cost the Exchequer. The whole point of MTD is NOT to spend government money.

Stop wasting money on st then. HS2, foreign aid, modern art for hospitals etc etc.

And I forgot to add - to provide work for software companies (and maybe ministers and high ranking civil servants to worm their way onto boards of directors of those companies when they eventually leave government employment).

[plasticpig]

jammy-git said:

Exactly this. I think what Eric has been told is that it is not/won't be possible to upload an Excel spreadsheet as your submission. However I can't see why HMRC would not accept an Excel VBA macro reading the contents of certain cells on a spreadsheet and then being posted via their API using that VBA macro.

I personally wouldn't do the whole lot in VBA. The API uses OAuth2 for authentication. That means either relying on the machine having IE 11 installed and using COM or using the Selenium VBA wrapper (might be other solutions as well but those are the two I am aware of).